For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[MissJames]

She did, and I heard they were going to release that video of her panicking. I can't explain that way, really. Unless, she knew at that point through her secret, unrecorded meeting with George, where Caylee was. Or, she just had this sickening feeling knowing exactly where they were, and felt maybe they might've truly found her that time. I don't know. But, that video is odd and that video was taken while Casey was in jail.

ETA: I'm frequently accused of playing devil's advocate.. LOL

BBM
Wrong. and this is how misinformation gets spread.
There never was an unrecorded meeting with George.Casey turned it down at the last minute on her lawyers advice.It was never a secret .LE helped arrange it and the public heard the jh tapes when they discussed setting up the meeting.There is a recording of GA when the visit gets turned town.
It was discussed ad nauseum at the time it was all arranged and again at a hearing when JB tried to accuse the A's as being agents for the State and LOST. :loser:

 

[crucibelle]

Thanks for the info. I'm curious if these phone records are consistent with the defense theory (IIRC) that GA first found Caylee in the pool then notified ICA about it. Why would ICA be calling GA if he was already aware of the earlier drowning?

Why, for that matter, would GA saunter off to work in the immediate aftermath of such a traumatic event? I should know, but have forgotten whether GA denied the defense drowning theory under oath.

:waitasec: :guitar: :bricks:

George also called the Anthony home at around 3:45 PM 16th of June. Why would he call home if he thought Casey had left? I suppose he could have been checking up because he was suspicious of her not having a job? But why would he assume she went back home? Perhaps he'd caught her doing that before. I don't know.

 

[beccalecca1]

BBM. I've never heard about her having a secret unrecorded meeting with George. Did this really happen? If so, around what date?

It was discussed in their only jailhouse video of the 2 of them... and I remember hearing a recording with George and LE when he was taking them to see Casey. Do you want me to look up the dates?

 

[Aqua_Green_Bean]

Originally Posted by Aqua_Green_Bean View Post
I don't need cold, hard evidence. I looked at all of the evidence that the state presented - Casey last one to see Caylee, not reporting Caylee dead/missing for 31 days, made up the nanny story, partied for a month, chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer, Please fill in the what happened here part.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car, body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house. Maybe on their own each one of those pieces of evidence would not be enough. But when you look at ALL of those things together, that is enough evidence, IMO. And again IMO there is no reasonable way to explain any other way those things could have happened.

I would really like to hear a situation where all of those things could have occurred that doesn't involve Casey killing her daughter. Could you, or someone who feels that the evidence was not there, please tell a situation or circumstance where all the presented evidence could have occurred?

BBM Murder or accident ? Does it matter ?

To me, it doesn't matter what happened in between Casey searching for chloroform, having Caylee in the trunk of her car and the duct taped remains being found triple bagged in a swamp. The fact that it went from Point A to Point B, and all of the in between reasonably involves Casey, would be enough for me to find her guilty of one of the charges (again I would need to review and testimony to say with certainty which one, but manslaughter at the very least).

 

[cluciano63]

George also called the Anthony home at around 3:45 PM 16th of June. Why would he call home if he thought Casey had left? I suppose he could have been checking up because he was suspicious of her not having a job? But why would he assume she went back home? Perhaps he'd caught her doing that before. I don't know.

Did he call the home number?
And how do we know, I thought no one got his phone records?
Would he expect Casey to answer the home phone, if she was not supposed to be there?

 

[MEM2010]

There's no evidence to support much of what you wrote.Even the defense team didn't go there. If Caylee got into Casey's chloroform :waitasec: that's still neglect /aggravated child abuse.
Casey was seen by several psychologists and psychiatrists. If the DT had any evidence of a break with reality they would have used it. They fought from having the SA's depo the drs that saw ICA and when they lost they called HHJP in the middle of the States depo to stop it.Then the DT took both of those dr.s off their witness list and the State added them.

exactly. They wanted KC acquitted on all charges so if they brought up her "chloroform habit" then it would implicate her on the aggravated child abuse.

When reading JG's depo regarding how KC basically had one foot in reality and if something happened to Caylee she would lose it and convince herself of a new reality (paraphrased)

So I was actually pretty surprised the DT didn't bring that depo up in court.

 

[Controversialist]

There was an hours gap before the frantic phonecalls commenced. Maybe Caylee had been dead for the best part of that hour. Casey could have been sleeping.
She must have known it was HER FAULT. She may have been traumatised, clearly she cannot have been thinking straight.
It is all very well saying what you would do but, to be honest, nobody knows how they would react in a crisis of those proportions. I am sure I would call an ambulance but the two times that I have had to call an ambulance (for myself thank God) I delayed it for a long time, hours.
We do not know what was going through Casey's mind. She was clearly frightened of her mother

You might very well be correct. My question is whether any of these reasons legally exonerate ICA from her parental responsibilities. I imagine that Charge Three of her indictment (culpable negligence), does not allow her the loophole of saying she refused reasonable actions for Caylee because she feared CA's temper tantrum.

As a juror, I would need a better reason for acquitting ICA on child neglect.


:truce:hdear:

 

[beccalecca1]

No.During a visit with CA and GA, he asked her to choose one of them(GA,CA,LA) to meet with not videotaped.She wanted GA.It was arranged with LE and the prison.GA went with LE(they tape recorded GA talking to them in the car) and at the prison one of the DT jr lawyers showed up and stopped it before it happened.

Thanks for clarifying. I knew they were suppose to have that meeting and that LE taped taking GA there, but I didn't know what happened after that. I assumed they still had the meeting, it just wasn't recorded (which honestly surprised me because I know LE did a lot of secret recordings).

 

[Aqua_Green_Bean]

respectfully

ok this may get some tomatoes thrown at me but I'm just throwing this out there as a possibility of an alternate theory of what could have happened given the points you listed. I just want to say though that this case is as tragic to me as it is others and I really just wish we could know the truth.



casey last one to see Caylee- Is this really proven? but let's just say it was Casey, maybe Caylee died due to her negligence. Let's say asphyxiated on a rock or even got into her chloroform

not reporting Caylee dead/missing- maybe she was to scared to admit it or maybe she even told the nanny story to herself and believed it.

partied for a month- at fusion where drugs were readily available. reality escape? was KC ever drug tested?

nanny story another lie to keep everyone away from the truth


chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer- Maybe chloroform was KC's indulgence.. maybe Caylee got into it?

smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car- I fully believe Caylee was in the trunk


body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house- this all could all be the signs of a cover-up


I welcome all critiques to my theory but would appreciate respect for respect in return

I appreciate alternate theories and would actually feel some relief, and probably less angry about the verdict, if someone could post one that is actually reasonable and makes sense. But everything you wrote would still make her guilty of manslaughter/neglect.

 

[RANCH]

I haven't seen much to help me understand the juries verdict.I'll throw one out there to help out.This ones straight from the OJ juries supporters. The jury didn't have to deliberate for very long because they sat through (insert length of trial) and didn't need to.They knew the evidence better than anyone else so no need to waste time deliberating.

 

[MEM2010]

I appreciate alternate theories and would actually feel some relief, and probably less angry about the verdict, if someone could post one that is actually reasonable and makes sense. But everything you wrote would still make her guilty of manslaughter/neglect.

bbm

I agree, but that's ifCaylee was in her care at the time of her death. I have seen theories floated that she could have been under Cindy's care. Maybe she drowned when they went swimming after going to the nursing home on the 15th. Or under George's care if KC hadn't woken up yet.

Not necessarily what I believe b/c to me Cindy seemed very sincere on her 911 call but.. idk.

 

[Chablis]

Thanks for the info. I'm curious if these phone records are consistent with the defense theory (IIRC) that GA first found Caylee in the pool then notified ICA about it. Why would ICA be calling GA if he was already aware of the earlier drowning?

Why, for that matter, would GA saunter off to work in the immediate aftermath of such a traumatic event? I should know, but have forgotten whether GA denied the defense drowning theory under oath.

:waitasec: :guitar: :bricks:

Yeah, I dont agree with the George found Caylee dead thing. I have no idea why the state did not pay more attention to the 17th and what happened inthe hours Caylee went missing, it made no sense. They could have said, if it was George, why is Casey calling him? Thats so weird why the State ignored this.

 

[Controversialist]

If Casey found a dead Caylee, she knew.

You NEVER forget seeing someone after they are dead before the mortuary makes them presentable. Twenty years later, I still picture my Dad in a horrible way and cannot remember what he truly looked like without a picture.

If this was an innocent pool accident (ICA never intended it, was distraught over losing her treasured child, knew it was too late to call 911, etc), why did ICA hide this story like a pit bull for three years, in favor of two fictional kidnapping stories, then have the sudden epiphany to share the truth for the first time when the trial opened?

If ICA's blatant lies to LE were because GA had earlier traumatized her to lie all the time, why did ICA's relentless urge to lie suddenly disappear at trial?

:waitasec::waitasec:fftobed:

 

[TexasLori]

I would be so much happier if Matlock and Perry Mason were running this case, along with Angela Landsbury providing the investigating.

The loose ends are maddening, the jury bearing the brunt of that one in a very real way. I don't want loose ends, I want an answer that's absolute with an iron clad guarantee.

I want this to be a movie or an episode of CSI that says yes or no, not maybe this, that or the other. I want a talking head that gets their prediction right on something, anything.

I didn't get it.

What I did get was a not guilty verdict that seems is commensurate to the evidence. I can live with it.

The loose ends are maddening, and I want to know what happened too, but the law does not require an "iron clad guarantee" nor does it require an "absolute" answer. The law requires reasonable doubt, and that is very very different than iron clad.

Unfortunately this is so misunderstood. Maybe juries need to be reasonable doubt qualified as well as death penalty qualified.

 

[Sjoseph316]

respectfully





casey last one to see Caylee- Is this really proven? but let's just say it was Casey, maybe Caylee died due to her negligence. Let's say asphyxiated on a rock or even got into her chloroform The defense never disproved it. According to Casey Zanny had her and it was proven there was no Zanny in this case, so this is where common sense comes in since there was no other explanation offered as to who had her last

not reporting Caylee dead/missing- maybe she was to scared to admit it or maybe she even told the nanny story to herself and believed it. If this is an acceptable excuse then anyone can go out and kill, hide the body and later get off the hook

partied for a month- at fusion where drugs were readily available. reality escape? was KC ever drug tested? Not for 31 days

nanny story another lie to keep everyone away from the truth The truth that it was an accident? Again, if it's this easy then anyone can kill and use this excuse as well


chloroform in the car, "How to Make Chloroform" searched on the computer- Maybe chloroform was KC's indulgence.. maybe Caylee got into it? Pretty big coincidence that there was a horrific smell in the same place where the chloroform was found

smell of death in the car, hair with death band in the car- I fully believe Caylee was in the trunk As I said above, pretty big coincidence


body found in a bag that matched a bag at the mothers house, duct tape found on the remains that was the same duct tape found at the house- this all could all be the signs of a cover-up This proves that Casey had opportunity and access.


I welcome all critiques to my theory but would appreciate respect for respect in return

Not throwing any tomato's at you!

 

[cluciano63]

If this was an innocent pool accident (ICA never intended it, was distraught over losing her treasured child, knew it was too late to call 911, etc), why did ICA hide this story like a pit bull for three years, in favor of two fictional kidnapping stories, then have the sudden epiphany to share the truth for the first time when the trial opened?

If ICA's blatant lies to LE were because GA had earlier traumatized her to lie all the time, why did ICA's relentless urge to lie suddenly disappear at trial?

:waitasec::waitasec:fftobed:

Even if it was an accident and George wasn't even there...Casey couldn't say so once she was caught out by her mom, because by then Caylee was in the swamp...she would have to admit she had put her there...same with police, she had to deny knowing anything about Caylee's death before they found her and even more so, after they found her. Once Caylee was found, Casey had to keep her mouth shut until trial, basically. It was too late to claim accident or point the fingers, she was being charged with capital murder.

 

[Hot Dogs]

They could have said, if it was George, why is Casey calling him? Thats so weird why the State ignored this.

Objection! Calls for speculation.

 

[Controversialist]

I have always felt that the chloroform was a complete red herring. It is short acting, requires effort and patience to make. Far more efficacious drugs are to be found in a pharmacy or even in the home...
I need to say that I did not like JB during the trial and had a lot of respect for LDB and JA but I never could see Casey as a murderess or a she devil as so many others portray her and I have stayed away from this Caylee forum because of that.
I am really grateful to whoever started this thread as it is nice to be able to speak my mind without worrying about alienating others.

I respect your posture on this, but IIRC didn't the state focus mainly on the duct tape, not chloroform, as the murder weapon? I think JA was just hoping the chloroform might have been used to make it easier on Caylee.

That bleeping duct tape keeps me awake at night. Who put it on and why?? If to manage the post-mortem situation, and if Caylee is secured in a laundry bag and several trash bag layers, why go to the trouble of duct tape at all??

The fourth duct tape piece (not on the skull) at the discovery site bugs me as well. IIRC, this tape showed forensic signs of fine hairs and fabrics consistent with possible use on wrists.


:banghead: :waitasec: :tears:

 

[badhorsie]

You might very well be correct. My question is whether any of these reasons legally exonerate ICA from her parental responsibilities. I imagine that Charge Three of her indictment (culpable negligence), does not allow her the loophole of saying she refused reasonable actions for Caylee because she feared CA's temper tantrum.

As a juror, I would need a better reason for acquitting ICA on child neglect.


:truce:hdear:

She had no charges for child neglect. The charge was aggravated child abuse

Definition of Aggravated Child Abuse in Florida
The crime of Aggravated Child Abuse can be committed in one of three ways by either:

Committing an aggravated battery on a child;
Willfully torturing, maliciously punishing, or willfully and unlawfully caging a child; or
Knowingly or willfully abusing a child and in so doing causing great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the child.
A child is defined as any person under the age of 18.

She was not proven to have done any of the above so could not be found guilty of that charge
:truce:

 

[badhorsie]

If this was an innocent pool accident (ICA never intended it, was distraught over losing her treasured child, knew it was too late to call 911, etc), why did ICA hide this story like a pit bull for three years, in favor of two fictional kidnapping stories, then have the sudden epiphany to share the truth for the first time when the trial opened?

If ICA's blatant lies to LE were because GA had earlier traumatized her to lie all the time, why did ICA's relentless urge to lie suddenly disappear at trial?

:waitasec::waitasec:fftobed:

Maybe she had dug herself into such a deep hole that she couldn't/wouldn't get out.
Maybe she is just cussed
Maybe she simply cannot tell the truth
Maybe she was scared
Maybe she was being abused
Maybe she wanted to punish herself
I do not know but I still don't think she murdered her daughter