For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[hoshizora]

Sorry I haven't been here much. Uni has started this week so I don't have as much free time as I used to.

Anything I missed, or anything anyone thinks that could be interesting? I think Zellner said she has found some type of forensic evidence that really points out that someone else did it so I'm excited to see that and if she has some definite proof the evidence was planted.

The issue is that because the forensics lab deals with LE and they handled both, SA's rape case and SA's murder case and also contaminated the evidence, I really don't find them to be reliable so hopefully Zellner found an independent lab that had no ties to the LE. I'm sure she did.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I *think* there are requests out asking for all of these reports from Calumet and Manitowoc Sheriff Dept's. I also think there is a request out for any recordings from Calumet County SDept, like what we have heard from Manitowoc.

Barb was picked up and was being held at the jail on Saturday Nov 5th for pot... I wonder if her statement was recorded?

That won't help get that drawing that SA made--because he made when he was talking to Marinette County. I would love to see that in relation to where the car was found. The interview says the it is attached, but it isn't. I wonder what the purpose was to not attach it, when the doc clearly states it was attached.

 

[missy1974]

That won't help get that drawing that SA made--because he made when he was talking to Marinette County. I would love to see that in relation to where the car was found. The interview says the it is attached, but it isn't. I wonder what the purpose was to not attach it, when the doc clearly states it was attached.

not sure what a map would tell us.... I know in one of the recorded interviews, they told him where it was, not sure if it was the Saturday or the Sunday. And don't forget, Earl was there, he seen where it was, I would be shocked if he didn't relay that to the rest of the family on the Saturday. Or Bobby... or Barb... or whoever else was still around the property on the Saturday it was found.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.philly.com/philly/entert...nt_of_Netflix_Series.html#w2pihCCd0eXTD2kY.16

Looks like they are planning on more to come.

 

[Jaiddie]

http://netnebraska.org/interactive-multimedia/news/net-news-csi-trial-full-show

This is a documentary of a couple of men from Nebraska who were initially charged with the murders of one of the men's aunt and uncle, because of the nephew's false confession to LE. However. the man in question who "confessed" had a low IQ and could not stand against the technique the officer's used against him. Keep in mind that this man was 22 years old and could not understand what he was dealing with. Is it any wonder that 16 year old (just turned 16 too, I believe) Brendan Dassey did NOT stand a chance against this? I think that the only reason Steven was able to stand up to this kind of interrogation technique without breaking, considering his IQ as well, comes down a lot to do with the 18 years he had spent in prison for the wrongful conviction. He had built up "street" smarts, I am sure, concerning how to deal with authority figures in his time behind bars. Couple that with the fact that he seemed to have the old school mentality, IMO, of "I will admit if I did something wrong, but I damn sure will not admit to something I didn't do!", and it is not surprising to me that SA proclaims his innocence to this day.

**As a side note, I saw quite a few haunting similarities between the Nebraska cases, and SA and BD cases. There is the low IQ aspect, the apparent tunnel-vision, and even planting of evidence. I am so hopeful that the fact that these kinds of negligence and misconduct in cases are now becoming so openly apparent, means that the system may now start getting the fixes it has so drastically needed.

 

[Jaiddie]

More documents available:

Calumet County Sheriff’s Department Exhibit/Property Ledger from Avery/Halbach Homicide Investigation (05-0157-955):

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-County-Sheriffs-Department-Evidence-List.pdf

Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department Activity Log for Steven Avery:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Avery-Activity-Log_Manitowoc.pdf

Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department Activity Log for Brendan Dassey:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Dassey-Activity-Log_Manitowoc.pdf

Exhibit List and Compilation of Record (index) from Steven Avery’s 1985 rape case (85 FE 118):

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ery-1985-Case-File-Exhibit-List-and-Index.pdf

Okay...not understanding something here already. *sigh* Can someone explain to me why the charges for Brendan on 3/01/2006 list his charges as: rape, 1st degree sexual assault, PREGNANCY, bodily harm, and mutilating a corpse? Where the heck does a pregnancy have to do with any of this and when did it ever? To my knowledge, I have never seen anything hinting at TH being pregnant! I am so lost!!

 

[Jaiddie]

Continued from previous post:

Another question I have was posted by someone on another thread, but it confounds me as well.
Teresa was reported missing at 17:00 on 11/5, and LE already have SA listed as a suspect in HOMICIDE/NON-NEGLIGENT at 18:34 in the link I provided above. So an hour and a half after she's reported missing SA is a suspect in her murder? At that point she still should have been seen as a missing person, wouldn't she?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Continued from previous post:

Another question I have was posted by someone on another thread, but it confounds me as well.
Teresa was reported missing at 17:00 on 11/5, and LE already have SA listed as a suspect in HOMICIDE/NON-NEGLIGENT at 18:34 in the link I provided above. So an hour and a half after she's reported missing SA is a suspect in her murder? At that point she still should have been seen as a missing person, wouldn't she?

Not sure why it says 11/5...she was reported missing on 11/3. 11/5 would have been Saturday, she was reported missing on the 3rd.

 

[Jaiddie]

Not sure why it says 11/5...she was reported missing on 11/3. 11/5 would have been Saturday, she was reported missing on the 3rd.

Thank you. Stand corrected.

 

[Jaiddie]

Also noted that on SA 11/15 charges, all 6 counts are listed, but they didn't have Brendan's "confession" till March of '06, so not quite sure what's up there, so where did they get the kidnapping, holding against will, etc... at that early of a time?

 

[shadowraiths]

Also noted that on SA 11/15 charges, all 6 counts are listed, but they didn't have Brendan's "confession" till March of '06, so not quite sure what's up there, so where did they get the kidnapping, holding against will, etc... at that early of a time?

Which is exactly why, imho, they needed to get Brendan to come up with the story they fed him in February. Which would, for them, cinch Avery's conviction. Imho, they basically took Brendan's life in order to get Avery. Totally and completely, appalling, imho.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie.... the pregnancy thing... it's the statute, in it's short formm 940.255 (1)(a) is:

940.225  Sexual assault.
(1)  First degree sexual assault. Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class B felony:
(a) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person and causes pregnancy or great bodily harm to that person.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/II/225/3m

 

[missy1974]

Also noted that on SA 11/15 charges, all 6 counts are listed, but they didn't have Brendan's "confession" till March of '06, so not quite sure what's up there, so where did they get the kidnapping, holding against will, etc... at that early of a time?

Because that is the story that they had already come up with. Which is just crazy, considering there was no evidence of that, especially on 11/15.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Also noted that on SA 11/15 charges, all 6 counts are listed, but they didn't have Brendan's "confession" till March of '06, so not quite sure what's up there, so where did they get the kidnapping, holding against will, etc... at that early of a time?

That would be a good question for someone is LE, but my understanding (and I can be corrected if wrong) is that they throw everything but the kitchen sink at it to and see what sticks.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Jaiddie.... the pregnancy thing... it's the statute, in it's short formm 940.255 (1)(a) is:

940.225  Sexual assault.
(1)  First degree sexual assault. Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class B felony:
(a) Has sexual contact or sexual intercourse with another person without consent of that person and causes pregnancy or great bodily harm to that person.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/940/II/225/3m

I'm with Jaddie on this one. I don't understand how they could claim that without having a body. I mean that had the body, but doesn't seem like they could prove they he "caused" a pregnancy. Furthermore, why didn't they charge SA with that?

 

[missy1974]

I'm with Jaddie on this one. I don't understand how they could claim that without having a body. I mean that had the body, but doesn't seem like they could prove they he "caused" a pregnancy. Furthermore, why didn't they charge SA with that?

there is an OR in there....

so pregnancy OR great bodily harm. My guess is they were going for the great bodily harm. It just so happens that this statute covers both.

 

[missy1974]

Continued from previous post:

Another question I have was posted by someone on another thread, but it confounds me as well.
Teresa was reported missing at 17:00 on 11/5, and LE already have SA listed as a suspect in HOMICIDE/NON-NEGLIGENT at 18:34 in the link I provided above. So an hour and a half after she's reported missing SA is a suspect in her murder? At that point she still should have been seen as a missing person, wouldn't she?

ok... had a look at the document.... I get that you meant 17:00 on 11/3.

The reason we are seeing 11/3 on the activity log is because that is when it was first called in to Manitowoc County... they assigned a number to it ... remember in the phone calls that we have heard released? I remember hearing that they reactivated that case number when the RAV4 was found, and she was getting it for one of the officers that called in. My guess is, that is when the reference number was activated and it was just reactivated... the homicide part was probably added later when they discovered her remains. JMO

As much as I think they had tunnel vision.... they didn't have that clear of vision to classify it as homicide and tag SA in it on 11/3 LOL

 

[Jaiddie]

http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story/category/making-a-murderer

Part 3 to FBI Agent Moore's breakdown of the documentary and his take on the "investigation". I have found that (though I am not an expert on how things "should" have been done, common sense told me some) my take was basically correct. An 8 day search WAS unreasonable and unheard of, apparently. JMO.

 

[Madeleine74]

On a property the size of the Avery Salvage Yard, 40+ acres, 8 days to process is not unreasonable. That's a huge crime scene. I think people have their own beliefs of what should happen and exactly how it should happen, but reality tends to be something else. Hindsight is always 20/20, but imagine if you were facing the processing of a 40 acre property, not knowing what might be there in terms of evidence. You have to go through everything, every building, vehicle, and some surrounding areas. Everything has to be coordinated.

As a comparative example of time:

There was a murder in a house in a town near me back in 2006. 1 woman murdered, beat to death, and the killer (who turned out to be her husband) left their 2 yr old child unharmed but with her mother's dead body for about 10 hours until someone got over to the house to 'find' her. Sheriffs & CSI teams were in the house over several days (about 5 or so). It simply takes time to go through everything, and even then things can be missed. And it doesn't mean a scene is being processed for 24 hrs each and every day. Breaks are taken where guards are posted but nothing is happening. Those elapsed hours are counted in the number of days. No one, not even the defense team of that murder case, had a problem with the elapsed number of days it took to fully process the scene. That house was about 3,000sq ft. Now compare that to 40 acres of salvage, cluttered messes, outdoors, burn pits, quarry, etc.

I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Take only a day or 2 to process a large scene and be criticized for 'rushing.' Take a few days to a week and be criticized for 'taking way too long.'

 

[Jaiddie]

[video=youtube;1FWCV6w6bag]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1FWCV6w6bag&app=desktop[/video]

Well, apparently, there is even more crazy shenanigans going on, regarding these cases. This is a video that tells how the social media group that the Avery/Dassey family originally took part in was "infiltrated" (or more correctly, handed over to) by a pro-guilty group who has, since, been dismantling it. I have never been a part of this group, but wanted to put the word out to any who may have been a member of the Justice for Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey facebook group, so they would have a heads up. I guess, some previous members are even claiming that THEIR accounts were then hacked and stuff deleted, though I am not positive if that is true or not, so take with a grain of salt.

Here is what I have been able to piece together. Back when the doc first came out and things started going viral, a friend of Carla Chase (SA niece, and the apparent official family spokesperson) created this group in support of the family. Carla and Barb, then joined and were made admins because they were the closest to any updates that would be happening, and this would help the page to stay up to date on any new current events or news. After a time, the group owner (the friend who originally started the group) decided to also start a donation fund for her husband's medical expenses (which had nothing to do with either of the Avery/Dassey criminal cases). Someone close to Carla made the suggestion that Carla should be in charge of the page, as most donations that were being made were meant for the criminal cases rather than the husband. This upset the owner of the group so much that she banned Carla and Barb from the group entirely. Members, of course, got upset at this at started posting how this wasn't the right thing to do. The owner then went postal and handed over control of the page to a pro- guilty group, who has subsequently, changed the name of the group several times (The Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office, The Official Ken Kratz Support Group, 100% Guilty, etc...) and has been posting misinformation, and abusing members so they will leave the group. One line of misinformation they are posting is that SA confessed to KZ and she subsequently quit his defense today. Anyway, it seems to be a social media nightmare. The Avery/Dassey family have since started their own group for people to comment and support which Brendan wrote a letter that tells people where to go to find it.

This is exactly the reason I personally don't mess too much with social media. I have a FB, but only use it for my own personal family and friends interaction. Otherwise, I just, basically, lurk (I guess that's what you call it) to read about things, I generally don't join anywhere, lol.