For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

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Hippiemomof5 said:
My 19 year old has about the same IQ as BD, and she reads a lot. Her comprehension is what she lacks. She just skips over words she doesn't know or can't pronounce which sometimes she doesn't understand sentences or full paragraphs and can miss out on important information throughout a book. She doesn't care though, she still reads all the time. She will finish a book and begin reading it from the beginning right away. It boggles my mind but she says she always misses stuff so it's not boring.
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reading this... it reminds me of how too many kids just 'get by' in school. Do what they can/have too, just to pass. So I think it's very plausible.
 
[video=youtube;4BrvWezZqZM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4BrvWezZqZM&app=desktop[/video]

This is a video of selected phone recordings the state made of SA jail calls to his family trying to show that he was trying to manipulate his family into firing Kachinsky so there would be no plea deal. The state used this during one of his post-trials, I think. I have a few thoughts on this. First, it sounds to me like the family was just as anxious to get rid of this lawyer as SA was, and NO WONDER, as Kachinsky made it pretty blatant that he was working with prosecution to get a deal put in place. So, there is no surprise that SA, especially, would want Brendan to secure new representation, as he had as high a stake in this as Brendan did. The video is hard to decipher at times because the accents are so thick, LOL.

The one thought I came away from this video after listening to it, was, "This is the criminal mastermind who knew how to spotlessly clean a crime scene so well, that there is no trace of blood and DNA, yet he and his family couldn't even figure out how to fire a lawyer that was glaringly trying to put a 16 year old in prison on NO physical or circumstantial evidence except a coerced confession?" SMH.
 
http://gmancasefile.com/moore-to-the-story.html

The next bloq from Moore to the Story: An FBI Agent's Take on MaM, Episode 5

I really enjoy reading these as they show a LE perspective on how things SHOULD have been done in the investigation versus the reality of what actually happened. I find his points to be very enlightening...he seems to come to some of the same logical conclusions that WE do about some of the key players in this, hehe. I am going to cut him some slack about his seemingly glowing praises of the FBI and their testing as that is the very background he comes from (FBI) so that makes sense, LOL. ;)
 
Jaiddie said:
[video=youtube;4BrvWezZqZM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4BrvWezZqZM&app=desktop[/video]

This is a video of selected phone recordings the state made of SA jail calls to his family trying to show that he was trying to manipulate his family into firing Kachinsky so there would be no plea deal. The state used this during one of his post-trials, I think. I have a few thoughts on this. First, it sounds to me like the family was just as anxious to get rid of this lawyer as SA was, and NO WONDER, as Kachinsky made it pretty blatant that he was working with prosecution to get a deal put in place. So, there is no surprise that SA, especially, would want Brendan to secure new representation, as he had as high a stake in this as Brendan did. The video is hard to decipher at times because the accents are so thick, LOL.

The one thought I came away from this video after listening to it, was, "This is the criminal mastermind who knew how to spotlessly clean a crime scene so well, that there is no trace of blood and DNA, yet he and his family couldn't even figure out how to fire a lawyer that was glaringly trying to put a 16 year old in prison on NO physical or circumstantial evidence except a coerced confession?" SMH.
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I have not listened yet.... but really... who wouldn't want him to get rid of friggen Len? I have never seen anything like it before.
 
Jaiddie said:
Since watching this documentary, I feel like I have "woken up" in a nightmare world. I have become absolutely so obsessed with these cases that in my research, I keep coming across soooo many similar cases that show that police and the justice system does not seem to be on the side of TRUTH anymore, it is breaking my heart, spirit, and is seriously putting a kink in my faith in humanity.

For those who believe that a conspiracy in the SA and BD cases is a ridiculous claim, I am including a couple more "similar" cases to show that even stranger stuff then what has been theorized here is known to happen.

In an Oklahoma small town, two people end up disappearing in strange circumstances while in the company of a County Sheriff's nephew. They were never seen again, and their remains were never found. The same said sheriff is being investigated by the FBI in relation to a meth drug ring his family was involved in.

http://plfipro.jaggededgemedia.org/molly-miller-colt-haynes-missing-oklahoma/

http://www.kten.com/story/30534010/fbi-investigating-love-county-sheriff

In another story, a man convicted in 1980 for the murder of a woman is exonerated after it is shown that the investigator and the prosecution went to great lengths to convict the man. They knowingly and maliciously falsified evidence in order to ensure the conviction was upheld.

http://www.thenationaltriallawyers.org/2015/07/wrongful-imprisonment/

The world is a much scarier place for me now, but I do believe, in my heart, that this documentary was absolutely what was needed to "wake" America up to the fact that something HAS to be done. Our country seems to be run (on a much larger scale then I ever dreamed possible) much like the code of the law from the Wild West days, just with better technology. Everyone sees the daily newspapers that have all these kinds of things in them everyday, but I think that too many people have just become too desensitized to the subject BECAUSE we read about it every day. It took a documentary to actually SHOVE IT IN OUR FACES, for us to realize....THIS HAS TO STOP! JMHO. :stop:

**I am still discouraged that this is going to be too much of an uphill battle (to change the the actual system that it needs to be done to) for us, as a country, to set things back to being right. :(
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Since watch MAM I have been wondering and asking myself how a group of LE can become so corrupt.
I recently watch a movie called Experimenter which was an ok movie but it delved into some actual real life psychology. The subject of the movie was based on "The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures" which basically shows that a person in authority can "instruct a subject to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. And a very high proportion of people were prepared to obey." I found that so interesting. It can somewhat explain why a high ranking corrupt person in this LE agency could so deftly compel those under him to do morally reprehensible things to both SA and BD. So in this case only the top few who had something to lose, 36 million, reputations, pride etc would have the motives and the others around them acted on an unfortunate basic human nature.
 
I have a question..I have not started watching this but am thinking of watching it. How is this like as far as letting children watch this. I know the subject matter is not good and I'm not talking little kids but early teens etc. Is there sex, nudity? Parental suggestions age appropriateness. thanks in advance. Or is it something to be watched at night alone without any kids.
 
SweetT said:
I have a question..I have not started watching this but am thinking of watching it. How is this like as far as letting children watch this. I know the subject matter is not good and I'm not talking little kids but early teens etc. Is there sex, nudity? Parental suggestions age appropriateness. thanks in advance. Or is it something to be watched at night alone without any kids.
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There is no nudity. But there is bad language and some graphic descriptions of violence and sexual assault. But there's no dramatizations of actual events. It's mostly like a documentary but more of an expose piece. I probably would let a mature 15 or 16 year old watch it.
 
SweetT ~ I watched it over xmas break... with my boys around, but they didn't sit down and watch. Honestly.... I told them both that I didn't care if they watched it, especially the parts with Brendan, because I think it teaches them a good lesson.... you don't talk to police without us, or you tell them your name and then tell them you want a lawyer, period, end of story. I hope it is never an issue for them, but there might even be situations where they are witnesses to a crime or something, they still shouldn't talk without us. After watching the documentary, I have repeated this many times to them, because it scares the crap out of me.
 
OK thank you both, I feel better now about letting my son watch with us, it sounds like he could learn something from it then.
 
Jaiddie said:
http://uproxx.com/tv/making-a-murderer-teresa-halbach-death-certificate/

"New 'Making a Murderer' Evidence Shows a Rush To Charge Steven Avery With Murder."


I swear, it just keeps getting stranger and stranger... :trainwreck:
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I'm seeing this article has spread a bit lol http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ence-steven-avery-article-1.2551505?cid=bitly

So I thought.... lets break this down!

They are discussing the death certificate in these articles.
It can be found here http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Exhibit-16-Halbach-Death-Certificate.pdf

box #5 says... Body found (24 or more hours after death), and NO is checked off.
box #39 Autopsy performed, YES is checked
box #22 Manner of death, Homicide is checked off
box #38 Cause of death, undetermined is written and then crossed out. Nothing else is written in.

Then they "compare" the dates.... but I have to say... I don't think they are right, but maybe not completely wrong.
The death certificate is dated November 10th. They say that the bones were examined by the coroner the day before ... which coroner????? because no coroner was allowed on site. IIRC Dr. Eisenberg had the box of bones on her desk when she returned to work on November 10th. They were not identified until Dec. 5th as being TH's, and even then, I'm still not sure that they were positively ID'd, and much later were tested by the FBI, and well... that doesn't tell me much either!

So they are saying that SA was charged before they even knew it was TH. I'm not sure what I think of this... if they are just making more out of something that doesn't have much there? or not?

I am somewhat curious about how they were able to issue a death certificate without proof. And on November 10th, although it was most likely her, there was no proof at that point. Eisenberg had just returned to work and had the box on her desk, no DNA testing was done yet.
 
They were positively identified on Jan. 19, 2006, missy. I had noticed some of the questionable entries when the death cert. became available, but it didn't compute all the way for me until I read that article as far as the timeline went. It looks for all the world like prosecution pushed this death certificate because they had to have it to be able to charge SA for murder and the trial started on Dec. 5, IMO.
 
This doesn't surprise me really. They,ve had " their " way of investigating/doing things, since the beginning.:rolleyes:
IMO
missy1974 said:
I'm seeing this article has spread a bit lol http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ence-steven-avery-article-1.2551505?cid=bitly

So I thought.... lets break this down!

They are discussing the death certificate in these articles.
It can be found here http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Exhibit-16-Halbach-Death-Certificate.pdf

box #5 says... Body found (24 or more hours after death), and NO is checked off.
box #39 Autopsy performed, YES is checked
box #22 Manner of death, Homicide is checked off
box #38 Cause of death, undetermined is written and then crossed out. Nothing else is written in.

Then they "compare" the dates.... but I have to say... I don't think they are right, but maybe not completely wrong.
The death certificate is dated November 10th. They say that the bones were examined by the coroner the day before ... which coroner????? because no coroner was allowed on site. IIRC Dr. Eisenberg had the box of bones on her desk when she returned to work on November 10th. They were not identified until Dec. 5th as being TH's, and even then, I'm still not sure that they were positively ID'd, and much later were tested by the FBI, and well... that doesn't tell me much either!

So they are saying that SA was charged before they even knew it was TH. I'm not sure what I think of this... if they are just making more out of something that doesn't have much there? or not?

I am somewhat curious about how they were able to issue a death certificate without proof. And on November 10th, although it was most likely her, there was no proof at that point. Eisenberg had just returned to work and had the box on her desk, no DNA testing was done yet.
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Welp,

I'm not sure if our folks here in Michigan Rank much better.

Surely there are more HONEST & GOOD than BAD, right? I have always believed there's more good in the world, it's just GOOD doesn't make for GREAT ratings.:sigh:
BigCityAccountant said:
It would have to be from Michigan, Minnesota or Iowa...Illinois is as crooked as they come.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/making-murderers-steven-avery-named-7491877

Aaaaand, another one with the true details. I must say, it's is refreshing to see articles such as these reporting on the true facts rather than just spitting out the prosecution's fictional account against the defendants. Manitowoc LE and those involved are finally being held accountable, at least as far as public perception goes. Hopefully, it's only a matter of time before they have to have their own day in court to answer for their actions. We shall see.
 
Jaiddie said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/making-murderers-steven-avery-named-7491877

Aaaaand, another one with the true details. I must say, it's is refreshing to see articles such as these reporting on the true facts rather than just spitting out the prosecution's fictional account against the defendants. Manitowoc LE and those involved are finally being held accountable, at least as far as public perception goes. Hopefully, it's only a matter of time before they have to have their own day in court to answer for their actions. We shall see.
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just .... WOW!!
 
this document is 427 pages lol and I'm only on page 7..... but wow, seems like SA's lawyers make a better argument about BD's confessions being coerced than his own lawyers did on his behalf :( which is really sad.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...endants-Memo-on-Brendan-Dassey-Statements.pdf

on page 7.... I think this is something that a lot of us have brought up.

The State argued to Avery's jury that, contrary to Brendan's March 1 story,
Halbach was killed in the garage, and that "only one man" was responsible for her
death - and that man was Avery. Yet to Brendan's jury the State argued that
Halbach was stabbed and killed in Avery's bedroom, according to Brendan's March 1
statement, and that both Avery and Brendan were responsible for her death. The
State's duplicitous and inconsistent arguments violated both defendants' due
process rights and ought to give this Court pause as to the integrity and credibility
of this whole prosecution.
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It goes on to cite other cases where it was found to be a violation of due process when the prosecution argues two inconsistent theories to separate juries in co-defendants cases.

ETA: anyone that believes that SA was possibly "framed" and BD's confessions were coerced, should read this document... or at least the beginning of it. It's like someone came here to websleuths, picked out all the things that some of us have been saying and put it into a document. It's kinda weird as I'm reading I keep thinking, yep, that's what I read at websleuths LOL
 
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