For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Justiceseeker35]

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.co.uk/

I saw this and just wanted to get some other opinions on this blog. It seems to answer some questions for people where I saw it originally posted and so I wanted to bring it here to see what others thought about it.

It is a possibility. So TH shows up a little earlier 2:15ish stays a few minutes say 10 tops. Drives off and then SA *67's her because wants her to come back for a hustle shot for his Mom's loader but it's a habit to *67 if he's not sure of the cell number? Tries her twice and the 2nd time she cfna. I have a theory that she cfna because simply it's Halloween and she has plans and wants to get ready for Halloween parties that night. She doesn't want to do any more business that day. I mean haven't we all cut out from work early before and kinda leave our phones off or set to auto voicemail so we don't get more emails/texts/calls about work? Then we breathe that sigh of relief that it's 5 pm so we turn our phones back on. It's possible that SA takes a hint and tries her two hours later hoping to schedule her for next week.

 

[dexter75]

Jaiddie,

Darling, I knew all along there have been MANY who have either " turned the other cheek " or have been down right corrupt in this case. MOO.

These reports, spliced together, I've mentioned this to the hubby a while back. This confirms it for me. Missy said herself how " confusing & all over the place " they seemed to be.:notgood:

And the answering machine tapes??:thinking:

And I'd be interested to know from others as well, what do YOU ALL make of Kratz leaving out phone records, voice mails, NOT showing the video he " claimed " to have?

SO MUCH from the beginning, I have questioned.:gaah:

Note; Even this person makes the point about every member of the family saying the bonfire was " cancelled " for 10/31, until the detectives suggest otherwise.

Thanks again, Jaiddie, for another interesting and informative article!

http://georgezipperer.blogspot.co.uk/

I saw this and just wanted to get some other opinions on this blog. It seems to answer some questions for people where I saw it originally posted and so I wanted to bring it here to see what others thought about it.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie,

Darling, I knew all along there have been MANY who have either " turned the other cheek " or have been down right corrupt in this case. MOO.

These reports, spliced together, I've mentioned this to the hubby a while back. This confirms it for me. Missy said herself how " confusing & all over the place " they seemed to be.:notgood:

And the answering machine tapes??:thinking:

And I'd be interested to know from others as well, what do YOU ALL make of Kratz leaving out phone records, voice mails, NOT showing the video he " claimed " to have?

SO MUCH from the beginning, I have questioned.:gaah:

Note; Even this person makes the point about every member of the family saying the bonfire was " cancelled " for 10/31, until the detectives suggest otherwise.

Thanks again, Jaiddie, for another interesting and informative article!

The phone records ~ Even more surprising that Kratz left out stuff from the phone records.... is that the defense didn't put up a fight about it!!!!!! Something else I've read recently is.... how did they get SA's phone records? and where is the original phone bill (ya know, like TH's) I get that they have an excel printout from the phone company and someone testified to it's authenticity, but who is to say that Kratz didn't just pick and choose on that one too? I have not seen a search warrant for his phone records, like they had to do to get TH's from Cingular. Even if SA gave consent (which I don't remember reading anywhere), most phone companies require warrants to get certain information, regardless of whether the person gives consent or asks for them. Just one more thing that makes me go whiskey tango foxtrot LOL

the blog.... I have read it before, there is a lot that I agree with, and things I don't, but can see why or how someone can come to the different conclusions. And it's this reason that I don't know if we will ever really know the truth unless someone confesses or they find some of those items that are missing in the possession of the murderer (her purse, the "real" set of keys)

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Jaiddie,

Darling, I knew all along there have been MANY who have either " turned the other cheek " or have been down right corrupt in this case. MOO.

These reports, spliced together, I've mentioned this to the hubby a while back. This confirms it for me. Missy said herself how " confusing & all over the place " they seemed to be.:notgood:

And the answering machine tapes??:thinking:

And I'd be interested to know from others as well, what do YOU ALL make of Kratz leaving out phone records, voice mails, NOT showing the video he " claimed " to have?

SO MUCH from the beginning, I have questioned.:gaah:

Note; Even this person makes the point about every member of the family saying the bonfire was " cancelled " for 10/31, until the detectives suggest otherwise.

Thanks again, Jaiddie, for another interesting and informative article!

BUT--JR (think neighbor) said he saw the bonfire that night. I checked he has a clear view of that fire. Let me find the pictures.

Here are the pic's.

 

[missy1974]

BUT--JR (think neighbor) said he saw the bonfire that night. I checked he has a clear view of that fire. Let me find the pictures.

at the same time that Earl, Fabian, Barb, and Scott T. didn't see it.

I wonder why they didn't call him to testify? In his statement, he said he remembered because an employee just took over a shift from another employee. I wonder if they tried to verify that and it didn't "fit". If he saw a large fire, that is pretty big corroborating evidence from someone independent of the family and it was in his first statement, not 3rd, 4th or 5th, like the others. I have searched the CASO report, I don't see that there was any follow up (at least not by CASO, and I don't recall anything in the MTSO report either). Maybe it's in the DCI report (that has not been released)

 

[missy1974]

I was reading something else and came across this .... it's the preliminary hearing from December 2005. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Preliminary-Examination-2005Dec06.pdf

I was looking at Pam's testimony (which has it's own issues lol) and realized that Sturdivant testified that day too.... he is from DCI and he is the one that saw Jost with the bone, the one that was 8 feet out from the burn area.

Page 99....
2 A. From the 8 feet south of that burn pit, I could
3 clearly see that there was some bone matter
4 located around the debris pile.

BBM... what? he could clearly see it and other officers walked around that place for 3 days at this point?

Oh and.... unless I missed it... there was absolutely no mention of a vicious dog. I have to run out for a bit, so maybe I just missed it and I don't have time to go back and look at the moment.

Interesting to read all of that knowing what was testified too and what we know now. IMO

 

[Jaiddie]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...6/05/02/my-visit-avery-salvage-yard/83817084/

'Investigative Reporter Visits Avery Salvage Yard'

Newest article from my favorite reporter.

 

[missy1974]

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...6/05/02/my-visit-avery-salvage-yard/83817084/

'Investigative Reporter Visits Avery Salvage Yard'

Newest article from my favorite reporter.

If, in fact, Halbach was slain elsewhere, somebody could have easily sneaked onto the back of the Avery Salvage Yard to hide her RAV4 there without drawing suspicion from the Averys. There’s a tremendous distance from the spot toward the back of the property where the RAV4 was found missing its license plates and the Avery’s residential properties on the 40-acre parcel. In all likelihood, someone would have driven the back roads around the Radant quarry.

I think the aerial shots sometimes make it seem like it's really not that far, so it's nice to read someone else's impression after being there.


Just a note for anyone reading the post crescent articles.... after so many, they want you to subscribe to read.... the work around for this is, if you are using chrome, right click the link and "open in incognito window".


ETA: Your favourite reporter is getting kudo's from Buting too Jaiddie lol

Jerome Buting ‏@JButing 5h5 hours ago
An investigative reporter in WI finally recognizes Avery family as decent people. Thank you John Ferak. Follow him.

 

[missy1974]

I was reading something else and came across this .... it's the preliminary hearing from December 2005. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Preliminary-Examination-2005Dec06.pdf

I was looking at Pam's testimony (which has it's own issues lol) and realized that Sturdivant testified that day too.... he is from DCI and he is the one that saw Jost with the bone, the one that was 8 feet out from the burn area.

Page 99....
2 A. From the 8 feet south of that burn pit, I could
3 clearly see that there was some bone matter
4 located around the debris pile.

BBM... what? he could clearly see it and other officers walked around that place for 3 days at this point?

Oh and.... unless I missed it... there was absolutely no mention of a vicious dog. I have to run out for a bit, so maybe I just missed it and I don't have time to go back and look at the moment.

Interesting to read all of that knowing what was testified too and what we know now. IMO

It was too late to edit my post, so yep, I'm replying to my own post :giggle:

The only reference to SA's dog is this from Fassbender on page 45:

The burn area, or burn pit behind his garage, which he identified as being right where his dog was, which is where the dog was, right behind the garage, he, again, said he had not burned there either in at least more than a week. And, actually, it was the burn pit area, I'm going to correct myself, the burn pit area that he said that he had not burned in prior -- until prior -- his last burn was prior to the day that Teresa had come on the 31st

So there was no mention of the vicious dog. IMO the vicious dog story only came up when they needed an "excuse" as to why no one had looked there or noticed it before hand. But still.... according to Sturdivant, he could clearly see bones from 8 feet away, and IIRC the dog could not reach where Jost found that first bone 8 feet away.

Zool ~ this reminded me of your post about Fassbender not making any sense... I had to read it 3 times and I'm still not sure what he was talking about LOL This is only a small part of his answer, the rest is just as bad haha

 

[Jaiddie]

I think the aerial shots sometimes make it seem like it's really not that far, so it's nice to read someone else's impression after being there.


Just a note for anyone reading the post crescent articles.... after so many, they want you to subscribe to read.... the work around for this is, if you are using chrome, right click the link and "open in incognito window".


ETA: Your favourite reporter is getting kudo's from Buting too Jaiddie lol

Jerome Buting ‏@JButing 5h5 hours ago
An investigative reporter in WI finally recognizes Avery family as decent people. Thank you John Ferak. Follow him.

I wanted to include this video, missy, that someone took of the distance that Pam & her daughter had to make in order to have found the RAV4. While it is not EXACTLY the same path (since that was 11 years ago, many things have changed, such as not as many cars there now and the Avery's have since beefed up security) this is meant to show just how far a distance that was and how miraculous it was that the vehicle was found with such ease (God led her to it).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vCxnh0LrknE

 

[missy1974]

I wanted to include this video, missy, that someone took of the distance that Pam & her daughter had to make in order to have found the RAV4. While it is not EXACTLY the same path (since that was 11 years ago, many things have changed, such as not as many cars there now and the Avery's have since beefed up security) this is meant to show just how far a distance that was and how miraculous it was that the vehicle was found with such ease (God led her to it).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vCxnh0LrknE

I watched the video too (turn your volume off lol), it isn't the same path that she took and IIRC from that preliminary hearing, she said they looked in or at at least 50 vehicles before. So in 40 minutes or so (her statement says around 10am she arrived, in preliminary hearing she said 10 minutes too 10, and in the trial, she doesn't say a time.... Kratz said it in a question "at about 10 to 10 or sometime before 10am" can you tell the jury what happened), she went into the office, out of the office, waited for Earl to finish his conversation with whoever he was talking too, spoke to Earl, enough time to discuss that Earl had lost a nephew, someone else was there earlier, told her to walk not drive, then they set out on their way. Checked 50 vehicles. Then the walking. I just don't know.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I watched the video too (turn your volume off lol), it isn't the same path that she took and IIRC from that preliminary hearing, she said they looked in or at at least 50 vehicles before. So in 40 minutes or so (her statement says around 10am she arrived, in preliminary hearing she said 10 minutes too 10, and in the trial, she doesn't say a time.... Kratz said it in a question "at about 10 to 10 or sometime before 10am" can you tell the jury what happened), she went into the office, out of the office, waited for Earl to finish his conversation with whoever he was talking too, spoke to Earl, enough time to discuss that Earl had lost a nephew, someone else was there earlier, told her to walk not drive, then they set out on their way. Checked 50 vehicles. Then the walking. I just don't know.

I agree that isn't the route PS took. It was more east, they testified they checked 2 rows of cars. Also, it took less than 10 minutes to get back there, so in theory they could have possibly checked 2 rows of cars before making their way back there. If anything it helps us "Guiltiers" more than anything.

Zool~~notice the berm in the video.

 

[angelainwi]

Why did they collect 4 pair of her panties?

https://m.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4h5u9l/fassbender_and_th_panties_this_is_deplorable/

 

[angelainwi]

Make sure to read the screenshots on the document

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Why did they collect 4 pair of her panties?

https://m.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4h5u9l/fassbender_and_th_panties_this_is_deplorable/

To get the DNA from them.

 

[Limaes]

DNA + any possible evidence of recent intimate partners perhaps?

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

 

[missy1974]

Page 262 -263, Fassbenders report about collection of panties. They actually collected 3 more, 7 in total, and 3 of them were taken from her dresser and most would assume they are clean, but who knows.

Thankfully Ryan was there and showed them the hamper where TH's dirty clothes were, along with the bag of dirty clothes in her room.

oops, forgot the link... should take you directly to the full report http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=262

 

[missy1974]

I agree that isn't the route PS took. It was more east, they testified they checked 2 rows of cars. Also, it took less than 10 minutes to get back there, so in theory they could have possibly checked 2 rows of cars before making their way back there. If anything it helps us "Guiltiers" more than anything.

Zool~~notice the berm in the video.

I wish the person that took the video at least tried to take the route that Pam took. In the video they went straight from the office past Chucks and past where the crusher used to be and up on the berm or hill behind the pond. And remember, they went straight to where it was, knowing exactly where it was found and where to go. Pam was "searching", she said they looked in approximately 50 cars, that's a lot of cars!

I remember doing this awhile back.... using exhibit 25, I followed Pam's testimony, and this was the best I could come up with for the route she took.

 

[Jaiddie]

I wish the person that took the video at least tried to take the route that Pam took. In the video they went straight from the office past Chucks and past where the crusher used to be and up on the berm or hill behind the pond. And remember, they went straight to where it was, knowing exactly where it was found and where to go. Pam was "searching", she said they looked in approximately 50 cars, that's a lot of cars!

I remember doing this awhile back.... using exhibit 25, I followed Pam's testimony, and this was the best I could come up with for the route she took.

Links to the site where I found the video at are not allowed here, but it was at the MaM Reddit site, under the thread 'Pam Sturm's Walk to the RAV4'. The poster explains about the route they chose to walk as well as some other parts of their experience at the salvage yard. MediaFiends stated:

"This is my video. It took us roughly 7 minutes to get from the office to where the Rav 4 was, going straight there. No, we were not walking slow. It was fricking freezing & windy so we walked pretty quickly. The business has suffered over the years so there isn't as many cars there to walk around either. You'll notice where the crusher was, there isn't anything. Same w the road behind the pond, a pond deep enough to have completely submerged the car, didn't have any cars there. Chuck told me the direction she walked isn't typical for visitors. They usually go right from the office while Pam went left. The huge quarry behind the property is literally like 2 feet from where the Rav 4 was parked. Back then there was a road that went straight through the quarry to this road the car was found on. Now they've had to build berms & put up fencing to try to protect their privacy. I have an article up on FreeBrendan.org on everything I saw there as well as more videos like of the burn pit behind Steven's garage which is closer than the evidence photo makes it look like...

We walked a direct route going the direction Pam took but not her route. We wanted to walk the most direct route, not looking at any cars, just going straight there to see how long that took. I had initially planned to walk it multiple times & try to recreate her exact path but there's just no way to know for sure as many of the cars are no longer there. I was also freezing. Lol...I walked directly there. Then I walked the whole back of it, looking at the quarry. I took tons of pictures too. The quarry is ginormous. I have pictures from where the Rav was to where the trailers are to see that distance.

I have pictures from where the bus drops the kids off looking towards where the van was for sale & vice versa. That let me know that there is no way the bus driver saw TH. It's too far away. There were cars parked along the residence road back then, trees & corn. Just no way the driver saw anything down by Barb's trailer. Chuck invited me in his trailer, where Barb & Brendan lived at the time. I looked out the kitchen window towards Steven's. Not as good of a view as you would think. I walked by the burn pit & took pictures of that. That was another big moment, IMO. The garage is so close to the fire & built out of particle board. If there was a 10ft fire that garage would have caught on fire. If it was windy at all that day, it would push the flames towards the garage. Plus the propane tank was right there too. I asked Barb how big was the fire Scott saw & she said 3 feet. She said the cops kept questioning him & basically did the same thing to him they did to Brendan. Kept asking til he answered how they wanted = 10 ft tall fire. We looked in the garage but were asked not to take any pictures of that. It looks the same as it did back then. Full of stuff & the floor ripped up."

Hope this helps to clarify the perspective of the person that recorded this video as well as their thoughts about other various aspects from the case as I quoted their responses directly from that thread.

 

[missy1974]

ohhhhh thanks Jaiddie! I saw the thread, but didn't see that post that does help, at least we know the though process. Going to check out the website to see the pictures they took too.