For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[missy1974]

Hi,BCA! I am very confused about these pictures and the supposed date these were actually taken. I found another one posted on another site that also shows no Rav4.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2EpQ8TxqKvrVHpmUUZrVW5rVU0/view

The questions I have regarding this is if these photos were taken on the 5th after LE already moved the vehicle, where are all the LE one would be expecting to see converging all over that property, first of all? Second of all, if the Rav4 had been discovered already, what was the point of doing another flyover? I can see where an arial view could show them the position of the vehicle, possibly, so the flyover on the 4th is explainable....I don't see what the reasoning for flyover's continuing after her car was taken away,though. It's very unrealistic to think that they expected to be able to find TH, herself, from such a height, so what was the point? :thinking:

I went looking for this yesterday Jaiddie. All of the aerial photo's that were introduced into the trial were after the RAV4 was removed. Even Buting made a comment in court that they have yet to find one with the RAV4 there!

Depending on the day, the level of activity was different. There were days they didn't start searching the yard until later because of the weather. There was the one day that I think most of them went to Kuss Rd... but shhhh nothing to see there, nope... nada... move along!

The most telling thing with the aerial photo's is the pond. If there is any water in the pond, it is after the 5th.

 

[missy1974]

Jaiddie.... in that photo, there is water in the pond and yellow tape around where the barrel is. Probably the 7th or 8th IMO

here is another photo.... it has the yellow tape if you zoom wayyyyyyy in. The cars in front of Barb's look to be in the same position and there is water in the pond. No police activity in the SY, but I can see the command post and all the vehicles on the road coming into the property.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-085.jpg

 

[Jaiddie]

Jaiddie.... in that photo, there is water in the pond and yellow tape around where the barrel is. Probably the 7th or 8th IMO

here is another photo.... it has the yellow tape if you zoom wayyyyyyy in. The cars in front of Barb's look to be in the same position and there is water in the pond. No police activity in the SY, but I can see the command post and all the vehicles on the road coming into the property.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-085.jpg

Thank you ,missy! :heartluv: I concede to these being taken after the Rav4 was removed,but I am still unclear why they felt the need for all these flyover's after it was discovered and removed. Not to mention, how convenient for them that those later flyover's show the Rav4 discovery location so clearly, yet they have no evidence from the the Nov 4th flyover from that same position that showed the actual vehicle was really there at that time. smh.

 

[Jaiddie]

I found another interesting post today about the Rav4 possibly being a duplicate, instead of actually being TH's vehicle due to the color issue. I am not sure what I believe as to what really went on with that issue of the investigation on whether it was a replacement or not, but I do find it very curious that before the discovery at ASY, when someone described TH car they called it green or dark green, but after the 5th all descriptions of that vehicle are "magically" agreed to it being bluish-green, or even outright blue. "Lighting" does not explain that part to me, because if it was just a lighting issue, why was it not described as blueish-green sometimes before the discovery? Guess I can chalk that up to another one of those "magic" coincidences we see so much of in regards to this case. All JMO, of course.

http://imgur.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/zNiZy

 

[dexter75]

I found another interesting post today about the Rav4 possibly being a duplicate, instead of actually being TH's vehicle due to the color issue. I am not sure what I believe as to what really went on with that issue of the investigation on whether it was a replacement or not, but I do find it very curious that before the discovery at ASY, when someone described TH car they called it green or dark green, but after the 5th all descriptions of that vehicle are "magically" agreed to it being bluish-green, or even outright blue. "Lighting" does not explain that part to me, because if it was just a lighting issue, why was it not described as blueish-green sometimes before the discovery? Guess I can chalk that up to another one of those "magic" coincidences we see so much of in regards to this case. All JMO, of course.

http://imgur.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/zNiZy

My husband has always questioned whether or not that was the original RAV TH was driving.

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[Karinna]

My husband has always questioned whether or not that was the original RAV TH was driving.

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I think it would of been easy enough to determine who's vehicle it was by the Vin number, and it would of been a registered vehicle with the DMV i would think.
What i find intriguing is that there were absolutely no fingerprints of TH or SA in that vehicle. Unless the perp/s. wore gloves? Or unless someone cleaned it thoroughly or didn't even bother testing for prints? From what i recall it was only a minute amnt. of supposedly SA's blood in there, and a bit of TH's blood in the back of the vehicle and some of her hair. So she was in the vehicle at some stage, alive & unconscious or deceased i don't know?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

I think it would of been easy enough to determine who's vehicle it was by the Vin number, and it would of been a registered vehicle with the DMV i would think.

Looked at the Warrant from November 5th.

1999

Toyota Rav4, dark blue in color,VIN #JT3HPIOV5X7113044

From reading the transripts of the Sturm call, she had something like T0Z5X713044 or T0Z5XT13044. She was not able to read the first few characters. (I might be mistaken though, her call was a little bit of a mess)
Pam wasn't too wildy off for someone who needs glasses.

So if the VIN was faked, it was faked before Sturm got to it, the 3044 portion is specific to that vehicle. Also the VIN is usually in several spots, several very hard to get to as a theft prevention method, I believe. Hard to change/fake all of those.
Don't know if there was anything confirming this to be Halbach's VIN though.


Waiiitttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!
page 62 of the CASO

WIEGERT: Hi, are you looking at it right now?
CALLER:Yeah, you know wecan't find that VlN number.
[irrelevancies snip by me]
CALLER: There is, I can't find the VIN number. Isn't that funny. Oh here it is Nik. I don't have my glasses.
WIEGERT: You don't have your glasses either
CALLER: My daughter is with me.
WIEGERT: Okay.
CALLER: okay, now hang on. The fir, the last four digits 3044.
WIEGERT: Okay, hold on, I have to find it here again' 3044?

Sturm knew the last 4 digits were the important ones.
But didn't know where to look for a VIN number??????
She had been a private investigator for 13 years when she found this RAV 4.


If the vehicle at the salvage yard was a duplicate, they'd have to fake this.

I then re-contacted Det. REMIKER on my cell phone and informed him that the vehicle that was at the salvage yard had a LEMIEUX TOYOTA sticker on the back of it and that I had verified with the family that TERESA's vehicle also had LEMIEUX TOYOTA a sticker on the back. Det. REMIKER informed me he was already en route to the salvage yard with several otherofficers to secure the area and check the vehicle.

Not impossible, are the Manitowoc police this slick though?

 

[dexter75]

Looked at the Warrant from November 5th.


From reading the transripts of the Sturm call, she had something like T0Z5X713044 or T0Z5XT13044. She was not able to read the first few characters. (I might be mistaken though, her call was a little bit of a mess)
Pam wasn't too wildy off for someone who needs glasses.

So if the VIN was faked, it was faked before Sturm got to it, the 3044 portion is specific to that vehicle. Also the VIN is usually in several spots, several very hard to get to as a theft prevention method, I believe. Hard to change/fake all of those.
Don't know if there was anything confirming this to be Halbach's VIN though.


Waiiitttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!
page 62 of the CASO


Sturm knew the last 4 digits were the important ones.
But didn't know where to look for a VIN number??????
She had been a private investigator for 13 years when she found this RAV 4.


If the vehicle at the salvage yard was a duplicate, they'd have to fake this.



Not impossible, are the Manitowoc police this slick though?

So many questions.

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[proudfootz]

To switch from big picture to small - this photo of the bullet fragment was published which purports to show it is lying on top of dust from earlier searches, which would seem to indicate that it didn't arrive on the scene until after the initial investigation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMa...ement_jackhammered_before_magic_bullet_found/

 

[dexter75]

To switch from big picture to small - this photo of the bullet fragment was published which purports to show it is lying on top of dust from earlier searches, which would seem to indicate that it didn't arrive on the scene until after the initial investigation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockMa...ement_jackhammered_before_magic_bullet_found/

The bullet appears older, like it's one that was found that had been laying around the garage a while, and planted on top of a layer of concrete dust, IMO

Speaking of the dust, haha, if I remember correctly, didn't they decide to jackhammer the garage floor before the magic bullet was found?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but jackhammer jackhammering that cement floor would be messy, leaving a disheveled, contaminated mess no? I mean if the bullet were found AFTER all of the dust settled it seems as if it'd be ruined, contaminated.

JMO

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[missy1974]

I'm not convinced it would be covered in dust. It would have been under the air compressor and behind the wheel. I still think it was either planted there, or was there for years.... and SC "placed TH there", whether through contamination or like my dog.... a willingness to please for a treat :biggrin:

The cement in earlier photo's had a white discolouration too.

here is a photo before the red car was taken out, I would assume they removed the red car before jackhammering.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-266-Creeper-And-Air-Compressor.jpg

 

[dexter75]

I'm not convinced it would be covered in dust. It would have been under the air compressor and behind the wheel. I still think it was either planted there, or was there for years.... and SC "placed TH there", whether through contamination or like my dog.... a willingness to please for a treat [emoji3]

The cement in earlier photo's had a white discolouration too.

here is a photo before the red car was taken out, I would assume they removed the red car before jackhammering.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-266-Creeper-And-Air-Compressor.jpg

Yes you're right my friend.
The bullet could have stayed dust free hidden behind/under the compressor.

I AM convinced it was planted either way though😉
JMO

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[proudfootz]

The problem that it presents to me is that if this dust is from the breaking up of the concrete during the earlier search, why wouldn't dust fall on the bullet fragment as well as the floor all around it? The floor under the compressor and behind the wheel do not seem to be protected from this dust.

 

[missy1974]

The problem that it presents to me is that if this dust is from the breaking up of the concrete during the earlier search, why wouldn't dust fall on the bullet fragment as well as the floor all around it? The floor under the compressor and behind the wheel do not seem to be protected from this dust.

yeah, I wish we had more photo's, or better one's LOL I'm just not convinced that all the white we see is dust, only because there was discolouration in the floor before hand. I recall looking at some of the photo's months ago trying to figure out where exactly the bullet would have been under the compressor, using the discoloured cement, I have always thought it would have been right behind that wheel. From another standpoint, it could be argued that it "flew" there while they were doing the cement. Or someone kicked it. JMO

It should be noted too that in the other photo's of the garage from March, it looks dusty in there all together. The red car seems to be covered in dust. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/exhibit-263.jpg

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Yes you're right my friend.
The bullet could have stayed dust free hidden behind/under the compressor.

I AM convinced it was planted either way though
JMO

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.
:ditto:

 

[missy1974]

After doing some research on the barrel's, I am more convinced than ever that the bones were moved to the pit. There is just no logical explanation that I can come up with that there would be bones in 2 separate barrel's, the quarry, and the burn pit. Then to add to that, the phone, pda, camera were found on the top of ash and muck that had formed a crust after the rain, and the same for the first bones that were found in the pit, found on top of a 'crust'. The only rain that week was on the 5th, the day they found the RAV4.

So take Brutus, the cadaver dog, into account. He hits on 2 barrel's behind Dassey's on the 5th. If the bones were already in the barrel, who dumped them into the pit? Is this a case of LE "helping" point the evidence to Avery? Sure would have been helpful to have more pictures. Pictures of the inside of the barrel's before they were ever touched, were the bones on the top of those too?

grrrrr always more questions than answers in this case!

JMO of course

 

[dexter75]

I've always thought the bones were in one to many locations.
Here, there & everywhere it seems.

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[missy1974]

.
I absolutely agree that Brutus was vital to the case, I'm just not convinced SA killed TH. Someone did~~I'm just not sure who.

I also believe all the cadaver dogs who worked on the case are equally as vital, including Loof, who tracked TH's to the quarry and Kuss Road.

We covered approximately five to ten miles of tracking. One of the more significant tracks that LOOF and FAUSKE tracked was from the south entry door of the red house trailer near the concrete stoop. This track did continue in a westerly direction
toward a cul-de-sac at the end of Kuss Road. It was indicated by FAUSKE that LOOF was very intense on this track.

I don't think you can give weight to one excellent police source without giving weight to the other.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

Brought this over here to discuss, hope that's okay with you BCA

I think that's a really good point. Trusting and accepting the hit's from Brutus but disregarding Loof's tracking doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

JMO

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Brought this over here to discuss, hope that's okay with you BCA

I think that's a really good point. Trusting and accepting the hit's from Brutus but disregarding Loof's tracking doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

JMO

.
Oh Hi Missy! :seeya:

Thanks the thread titles sound so similar~~I forget which I should be posting to...I get them confused. Thanks for keeping me straight.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Brought this over here to discuss, hope that's okay with you BCA

I think that's a really good point. Trusting and accepting the hit's from Brutus but disregarding Loof's tracking doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

JMO

I just did a big-ish post on Brutus in the barrels thread. Long story short, he seems genuinely great. Haven't seen much on Loof though. Even if it is not important to the outcome of the case, I'd like to know more about Loof and his findings.