For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Karinna]

I agree,SA had a great life ahead of him.

Anyone know if he got in any trouble during the 18 years he was locked up for previously(fights,etc.).If not,it seems really strange that he would just become violent that late in his life and be able to lie about it so well.

Hi Crazyeddie & :welcome6: As to your question i don't know, but haven't heard anything mentioned about SA's behaviour in prison?

 

[dexter75]

I agree,SA had a great life ahead of him.

Anyone know if he got in any trouble during the 18 years he was locked up for previously(fights,etc.).If not,it seems really strange that he would just become violent that late in his life and be able to lie about it so well.

Don't you know?
He was OWED that brutal rape & murder of TH?? Yep, that's been the working theory here for many who think he is guilty.
He is a psychopath ( Kratz ) who hates women. Because he was wrongly accused and convicted of the PB rape, he felt, " why not "
So, he stalked Teresa. He went with his sister Barb and bought...fuzzy hand cuffs to restrain Teresa. ( Barb got herself a pair. Oh, and a couple of other women's DNA on the cuffs, buttt, not Teresa Halbach's. Isn't that strange? )
Anyway, he also made some CALLS to Teresa. AND...they exchanged CALLS on her personal cell.
Not only that, she showed up one day after Steve had been swimming, and he had the nerve to answer the door in his swimsuit and towel🙄
From there, he was super sneaky and called Auto Trader, Teresa's employer, and specifically said " can you send the same girl as last time? "
From there, well, no one knows what really happened because there isn't an ioda of forensic evidence to support much of anything really.
I had asked about his jail record once before, not sure if it ever was answered🤔🤔🤔
All sorts of " reports " of things he's "alleged " to have done.
Then there's his petty crimes. There's the CAT😟 God don't forget that. ( RIP Kitty ) The letters he & his ex wrote back & forth and I know for sure one said I will kill you, or I am going to kill you, followed by HA HA..

Maybe someone else can answer your question with a much better answer than I can😉
Welcome, Crazyeddie😊

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[proudfootz]

Do you suppose that the transcripts or recordings f the phone calls between JS and Steven on Oct 31st, 2005 contain any inculpatory material?

I mean, if there was anything there that indicated Steven's guilt, the prosecution would have included it. Right?

It suggests to me that those recordings would appear to be exculpatory, hence the prosecution didn't include them in making their 'case'.

I have had no luck finding the recordings or the transcripts of these calls. You'd think a recording of Steven talking while allegedly raping, murdering, and chopping up his victim would be introduced in court and presented to the jurors - don't you?

My own opinion, naturally.

 

[missy1974]

I totally agree with you proudfootz. And Kratz makes it sound like it was out of the ordinary for SA to have a police scanner going at night (in the trial and in his book). IIRC all the Avery's had them because part of their business was towing. I know one of the brothers mentioned it, I think it may have been Charles, but at the moment, I'm not sure.

Also, the police scanner was found on his bar in the living room IIRC.

I'm not sure if the defense could have brought those recordings in? Maybe through Jodi? But I can't recall at what point they "broke up"?

And no proudfootz, I don't think the recordings or the transcripts have been released at all.

ETA: JMO

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I totally agree with you proudfootz. And Kratz makes it sound like it was out of the ordinary for SA to have a police scanner going at night (in the trial and in his book). IIRC all the Avery's had them because part of their business was towing. I know one of the brothers mentioned it, I think it may have been Charles, but at the moment, I'm not sure.

Also, the police scanner was found on his bar in the living room IIRC.

I'm not sure if the defense could have brought those recordings in? Maybe through Jodi? But I can't recall at what point they "broke up"?

And no proudfootz, I don't think the recordings or the transcripts have been released at all.

ETA: JMO

.
So exactly how does that work? He's running into his living room every 5 minutes to check the police scanner while cleaning up a murder scene and running a carpet cleaner all at the same time? LMAO

 

[dexter75]

.
So exactly how does that work? He's running into his living room every 5 minutes to check the police scanner while cleaning up a murder scene and running a carpet cleaner all at the same time? LMAO

Lolol!😂😂😂

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[proudfootz]

I totally agree with you proudfootz. And Kratz makes it sound like it was out of the ordinary for SA to have a police scanner going at night (in the trial and in his book). IIRC all the Avery's had them because part of their business was towing. I know one of the brothers mentioned it, I think it may have been Charles, but at the moment, I'm not sure.

Also, the police scanner was found on his bar in the living room IIRC.

I'm not sure if the defense could have brought those recordings in? Maybe through Jodi? But I can't recall at what point they "broke up"?

And no proudfootz, I don't think the recordings or the transcripts have been released at all.

ETA: JMO

It's truly bizarre how the most mundane things suddenly become sinister acts when someone wants to make an accusation.

Vacuumed the carpet, did laundry, cleaned an oil spill, did the dishes.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

It's truly bizarre how the most mundane things suddenly become sinister acts when someone wants to make an accusation.

Vacuumed the carpet, did laundry, cleaned an oil spill, did the dishes.

.
Funny that you mentioned it Proudfootz, I was thinking that same thing when I thought back to when I steam clean my carpet. Nothing diabolical about that.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

It's truly bizarre how the most mundane things suddenly become sinister acts when someone wants to make an accusation.

Vacuumed the carpet, did laundry, cleaned an oil spill, did the dishes.

.
DID THE DISHES! OH~~that must be why there was no DNA on the knives they found. Good Grief~~that Avery guy sure is a smart one...LOL

 

[Saul Vesalot]

.
Funny that you mentioned it Proudfootz, I was thinking that same thing when I thought back to when I steam clean my carpet. Nothing diabolical about that.

Think about how much people would be tearing into Zipperer if the state told them he was the bad guy. When talking to the police he claimed Auto Trader was harassing him with phone calls and were trespassing*.


*

GEORGE was extremely belligerent initially, and it was my impression that he was apparently
intoxicated. GEORGE indicated to me that the person from the AUTO TRADER had been at his
residence, and that he wanted her arrested. He indicated that she had no permission to be on his
property, and therefore, she was trespassing. GEORGE continued in a boisterous manner even
after I advised him that TERESA HALBACH had been reported as a missing person, and that his
telephone number was one of the last numbers she had placed outgoing telephone calls to from
her cellular phone.

--------------------------page 17 of the CASO--------------------

*

GEORGE stated he did call AUTO TRADER on one occasion after HALBACH went missing.
He stated he spoke to someone about HALBACH coming onto his yard without permission and
that she was trespassing.

-------------------------352 of the CASO---------------------------


People don't find Zipperer's drunken belligerence and lies to be suspicious, but Steven using a carpet cleaner is proof he raped a woman, cut her throat, owns a magic tarp, etc.


One thing I have seen with missing person's cases and weird/unexplained murders, is the victim pretty much ALWAYS has suspicious stuff surrounding them. If they were suspected of murder, this stuff would be evidence they were guilty. Instead, it becomes "clues" or "evidence" that they ran away and are living under a new identity elsewhere.

 

[proudfootz]

One of the curious things about the investigation in this case is the complete abandonment of common sense and forensic protocols.

I was reading a book about crime scene forensics and came across this statement by forensic anthropologist Dr Bill Bass, founder of University of Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility AKA the 'Body Farm' where human remains decomposition under various conditions is studied.

I considered the cameras the most important part of our equipment [investigating crime scenes]; they were essential in documenting the scene, the search, and particularly the recovery of human remains. I know of only two types of scientific research that require utterly destroying the very thing you're studying: excavating an archaeological site and investigating a death scene. By the time you're finished, it's gone, dismantled, so you better make damned sure you've got an exhaustive record on film; there's no going back to check for something you overlooked - say, footprints on the surface of a shallow grave - after you've trampled or dug up the ground.

It was Kansas lawman Harold Nye - a living legend in the KBI [Kansas Bureau of Investigation] - who taught me one of my most important lessons about crime scene investigation: "Shoot your way in, and shoot your way out." It sounds like the modus operandi of a trigger-happy bank robber, but Harold was talking about photography. "When you arrive at a scene and get out of your car, take a picture of the house or the car or whatever the scene is," he said. "as you walk closer take some more. Take pictures of the ground before you walk on it; take pictures of who's there; pictures of what kind of shoes officers at the scene are wearing. Take pictures of the body before you move it or even touch it.

Harold Nye solved the case of the murder of the Clutter family in 1959, made notorious by Truman Capote's 1965 book In Cold Blood, by comparing footprints only visible in photographs of the scene to the boots worn by the suspects.

Quotes from this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Deaths-Acre-Inside-Legendary-Forensic/dp/0425198324

 

[Saul Vesalot]

One of the curious things about the investigation in this case is the complete abandonment of common sense and forensic protocols.=
Quotes from this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Deaths-Acre-Inside-Legendary-Forensic/dp/0425198324

I read that book last year! Interesting read.
And yeah, they abandoned protocols left and right. Protocols are not just there to be pretty, they ensure the most efficient and effective and accurate investigation possible. Abandoning the best practices of police work is NOT something an honest police department does during an investigation. It just does not do that. That right there is enough to convince me something is going on. These are police intentionally doing things incorrectly during the investigation of a murder. An investigation they were supposed to stay away from because of a conflict of interest with the main suspect.

The quality of this investigation was unacceptable.

 

[proudfootz]

Regarding the vehicle thought to be Teresa's - what can we make of the VIN number having been tampered with?

http://imgur.com/a/NR1gZ

Another oddity - how is it the sheriff didn't even bother asking about the license plate number and zoomed in on the VIN as soon as PS called about finding the RAV4.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ript-of-Call-from-Sturms-to-Sheriff-Pagel.pdf

Kinda sounds like they know the license plate is missing before they take the phone call.

MOHO, obviously.

ETA: removed remark about RAV4 being 'covered up'.

 

[Chris1982]

Regarding the vehicle thought to be Teresa's - what can we make of the VIN number having been tampered with?

http://imgur.com/a/NR1gZ

Another oddity - how is it the sheriff didn't even bother asking about the license plate number and zoomed in on the VIN as soon as PS called about finding the RAV4.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ript-of-Call-from-Sturms-to-Sheriff-Pagel.pdf

Kinda sounds like they know the license plate is missing before they take the phone call.

MOHO, obviously.

ETA: removed remark about RAV4 being 'covered up'.

its weird that Pam clearly knows what a vin number is but has no idea where to find it...pam asked about the vin number before pagel or weigert could ask about a license plate so i dont see anything too fishy about that. Weird that she notes that it looks like its been tampered with...short of taking the windshield off its nearly impossible to remove and replace or tamper with the vin plate

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Regarding the vehicle thought to be Teresa's - what can we make of the VIN number having been tampered with?

http://imgur.com/a/NR1gZ

Another oddity - how is it the sheriff didn't even bother asking about the license plate number and zoomed in on the VIN as soon as PS called about finding the RAV4.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...ript-of-Call-from-Sturms-to-Sheriff-Pagel.pdf

Kinda sounds like they know the license plate is missing before they take the phone call.

MOHO, obviously.

ETA: removed remark about RAV4 being 'covered up'.

Interesting how the tampering isn't mentioned in the call, and she says it has been moved and by "moved" she meant bent?

Also kinda weird that she didn't know where to find a VIN despite being a private investigator for 13 years and she could identify the year the RAV4 was made on sight....

WIEGERToes it look like a newer one?

CALLER :Yeah, it's the 99 to 2000

She also knew the last 4 numbers were the important ones despite not knowing where to find the VIN and having to ask where to look...




Also, just to be a pedant, she got more than the first 2 numbers wrong I think. She got close enough for government work. Of course, she could have gotten every number wrong and that would have been close enough for Manitowoc....

 

[dexter75]

I read that book last year! Interesting read.
And yeah, they abandoned protocols left and right. Protocols are not just there to be pretty, they ensure the most efficient and effective and accurate investigation possible. Abandoning the best practices of police work is NOT something an honest police department does during an investigation. It just does not do that. That right there is enough to convince me something is going on. These are police intentionally doing things incorrectly during the investigation of a murder. An investigation they were supposed to stay away from because of a conflict of interest with the main suspect.

The quality of this investigation was unacceptable.

Unacceptable is putting it nicely.

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[missy1974]

Buting's book will be out on Tuesday.

article about it: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...g-deck-stacked-against-steven-avery/98445988/

He also demonstrates empathy for Dassey, who he clearly understands is "chronologically a teenager, emotionally and intellectually a child, (but) was treated as if he were an adult." And he displays sharp wit when he discusses Kratz, who early in the case had staged a grandstanding news conference in which he released a number of inaccurate details about the killing but later complained that the defense might do something similar.

"If unintended irony were a felony," Buting wrote, "Kratz would be serving 25 years without parole."


I like that... "unintended irony" ... lots of that to go around in this case IMO

 

[proudfootz]

Can anyone make sense of the idea that the dog called Bear (supposedly a vicious animal that kept several score cops at bay for several days) was guarding a pile of bones in the fire pit and did not chew on the bones?

Needless to say, if the bones were in several locations, then Bear could not have prevented the discovery of bones in other locations.

Some bones still had meat on them according to Wisconsin forensic lab, guarded by a dog who has all the time in the world to find (at least a week!). Yet zero evidence this dog chewed on the bones and meat.

Sounds like the bones didn't arrive in the burn pit until a later time, in my opinion.

All MOHO.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

To me, this sounds like they tried to get more than one expert to inaccurately report the results of the test. They can only say that the floor had been cleaned with bleach but "no expert"(meaning more than one), would say there was blood in "great quantities". This is because the tests did not say that. Kratz tried to get people to lie in court about the results of these tests. Either that or......I'm drawing a blank on what else this is supposed to mean.

From page 88 of Kratz's book.

 

[missy1974]

Can anyone make sense of the idea that the dog called Bear (supposedly a vicious animal that kept several score cops at bay for several days) was guarding a pile of bones in the fire pit and did not chew on the bones?

Needless to say, if the bones were in several locations, then Bear could not have prevented the discovery of bones in other locations.

Some bones still had meat on them according to Wisconsin forensic lab, guarded by a dog who has all the time in the world to find (at least a week!). Yet zero evidence this dog chewed on the bones and meat.

Sounds like the bones didn't arrive in the burn pit until a later time, in my opinion.

All MOHO.

Nope, I can't make sense of it proudfootz. Hard to make sense of something that doesn't make sense, right? And for the record, they did take Bear's poo into evidence and to the best of my knowledge, they didn't find anything, I'm sure we would know if they did.

JMO