For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[Karinna]

Perhaps Steven carries around vials of his gf's DNA just in case he needs a convincing evidence that there was no massive clean up of a crime scene...

Yes because SA is such a mastermind criminal, LOL and he thinks of everything, well except for the blood in the Rav4, the key which appears magically out of nowhere, and lighting fires everywhere to burn evidence of his supposed victim. And then plants the remains in various locations too.

 

[missy1974]

Your post above proudfootz is impressive!!!! With a little bit of research, all of this information is pretty easy to find actually. It seems that the altering of facts to suit the agenda is becoming more and more common, possibly because that's what Kratz and Fassbender have been doing the past few weeks?

Proudfootz... did you see the new pics of the fire pit in the Bone's thread? What do you think of the pile that was obviously raked and put around and near the steel wires? My thinking is that if there were bones that were intertwined in any wire, it was due to the way they were recovered, not how they were found in situ. AGAIN, it's unfortunate that no one on scene was smart enough to take photo's before touching anything. Those new pictures were obviously taken after the first bone was discovered.... after they were raked into a pile (is this the pile that Sturdivant testified about? or was it another pile... oh wait.... it was another pile, because he also talked about them being ON TOP OF THE CRUST) How do they get on top of the ash crust if they were burned there? This again... is NOT LOGICAL.

There are so many factual errors in the post you quoted, I don't have the time to go through it all. I would like to point out once again though that Kayla discussing anything about blood and concrete was attributed to her Dad, Earl, not Steve.

I would be interested in your thoughts in the Bones thread proudfootz

 

[proudfootz]

Speaking of planted evidence, it is undeniable that some items were added to the burn pit from the 'before' and 'after' photos - noticeably a gallon jug that looks like may have contained bleach.

It appears these fellows are rather ham handed and cavalier about the way they do their framing.

MOO, of course.

 

[proudfootz]

With a little bit of research, all of this information is pretty easy to find actually. It seems that the altering of facts to suit the agenda is becoming more and more common, possibly because that's what Kratz and Fassbender have been doing the past few weeks?

RSBM

It does appear that some people have been seriously misled about substantial facts in the case, and based on such 'alternate facts' have been bamboozled into thinking the case against Steven is solid.

The jury is shown a hypothetical drawing of a possible arrangement of furniture in Steven's bedroom, and suddenly that fantasy becomes a reality in their minds - even though that is not the arrangement of furniture that was actually found.

A 'confession' is cobbled together from cherry picked statements made by a learning disabled teen and suddenly the lurid scenario becomes a 'fact'.

In the above story, the two police officers who stumble upon a convenient pile of bone fragments on top of Steven's burn pit are magically transformed into 'trained cadaver scent dogs' who detect the cremains 'spread' under a layer of ash. Incredible imaginations some people have. A pity the uses they put it to.

Unsurprisingly, all MOO.

 

[proudfootz]

Proudfootz... did you see the new pics of the fire pit in the Bone's thread? What do you think of the pile that was obviously raked and put around and near the steel wires? My thinking is that if there were bones that were intertwined in any wire, it was due to the way they were recovered, not how they were found in situ. AGAIN, it's unfortunate that no one on scene was smart enough to take photo's before touching anything. Those new pictures were obviously taken after the first bone was discovered.... after they were raked into a pile (is this the pile that Sturdivant testified about? or was it another pile... oh wait.... it was another pile, because he also talked about them being ON TOP OF THE CRUST) How do they get on top of the ash crust if they were burned there? This again... is NOT LOGICAL.

Snipped and bolded by me!

I think you are correct, the alleged 'intertwining' of alleged bone fragments with the wires from the steel belted tires has more to do with how the fragments were handled and says nothing one way or the other about whether the body was burned in the fire pit.

A few moments reflection will reveal to anyone the truth of this - pour ashes containing chunks over a mesh of wires and some chunks will become entangled in the wires. A colander that you use for straining pasta works on the same principle. This isn't rocket surgery!

Based on Sturdivant's testimony, it would appear the cremains were found in a discrete pile within the area of the fire pit. Pretty obvious that these bones were placed there after a fire, and not a part of any fire taking place in the pit.

I'm rather too lazy to go through the mental gymnastics necessary to deny the bones were planted.

All MOO, naturally enough.

 

[missy1974]

Snipped and bolded by me!

I think you are correct, the alleged 'intertwining' of alleged bone fragments with the wires from the steel belted tires has more to do with how the fragments were handled and says nothing one way or the other about whether the body was burned in the fire pit.

A few moments reflection will reveal to anyone the truth of this - pour ashes containing chunks over a mesh of wires and some chunks will become entangled in the wires. A colander that you use for straining pasta works on the same principle. This isn't rocket surgery!

Based on Sturdivant's testimony, it would appear the cremains were found in a discrete pile within the area of the fire pit. Pretty obvious that these bones were placed there after a fire, and not a part of any fire taking place in the pit.

I'm rather too lazy to go through the mental gymnastics necessary to deny the bones were planted.

All MOO, naturally enough.

I agree, and I had to go back and look in the "Barrel's" thread, because I remember coming across something in the CASO report that I put in that thread... and it was that CASO officer Sippel actually came to the scene where Jost was (with the first bone that was found 8 feet south of the pit) and saw bones ON TOP of the ash crust. So we have Jost who notices the first bone... Sippel comes over to Jost, Jost points out bones to Sippel, Sippel thinks they are bones too and comments they are on top... Sippel mentions in his report that DCI agent Sturdivant and another DCI agent come. Sippel also mentions that the pit was NOT DISTURBED. Sipple leaves the scene, goes to command post and informs them of the find and that when they found the Crime Lab, they went to the scene to excavate it. So from the time that Sippel walks away, leaving Jost, Sturdivant, and another DCI officer and when Ertl with the Crime Lab arrives... someone alters the scene. Ertl has stated in an email to Fassbender and I believe in testimony that he did not photograph it because it was OBVIOUSLY altered. And then we have Sturdivant's testimony that they were in a "pile".

I will JMO but I don't think it's necessary, considering these are the FACTS.


Sippel's supplemental report: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=157

Email between Fassbender/Ertl: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...bit-160-Email-Between-Fassbender-And-Ertl.pdf

Sturdivant's testimony: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Trial-Transcript-Day-13-2007Feb28.pdf#page=7

oh and for good measure...

MTSO report which includes Jost's statement: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

 

[proudfootz]

Yes, the story about Bear keeping anyone away from the burn pit is just a fairy tale. It doesn't seem to have deterred these fellows who found the cremains neatly piled on top of the ash crust where they were apparently planted.

Thanks for the links! I'll be checking them out.

All my opinion - except for the facts.

 

[missy1974]

Here is an especially scary picture of Bear.



Dang dog couldn't even be bothered to look at whoever was taking a pic. According to Sturdivant's testimony IIRC, his leash did not reach to where the first bone was found, 8 feet away from pit. So how did it get there? Someone have trouble carrying those bones in the dark?

 

[proudfootz]

For such a 'vicious' dog, he sure seems submissive to me.

I bet I could have walked right up to Bear and put him on a leash and gave him a nice walk, and maybe taught him some tricks.

I understand, though, that there are a lot of people with no exposure or experience with dogs who live in fear of 'scary looking' breeds.

Hard not to feel a little sorry for them.

My opinions.

 

[CoolJ]

Heres a question I have been pondering re: the blood on ignition of Rav.

How in the heck, whether he was wearing gloves or not, did SA only get blood on that one spot? Wouldn't it also be on the steering wheel and gear shift?

It is kind of like the key, the only reasonable explanation is that it was planted. There really are no other reasonable possibilities.

 

[CoolJ]

Heres a question I have been pondering re: the blood on ignition of Rav.

How in the heck, whether he was wearing gloves or not, did SA only get blood on that one spot? Wouldn't it also be on the steering wheel and gear shift?

It is kind of like the key, the only reasonable explanation is that it was planted. There really are no other reasonable possibilities.

I would really like to hear from some of the "guilters" and how they explain these things away. But they don't seem to want to engage when it comes to the tough questions that obviously point to The FACT that SA was obviously framed.

 

[Adam Wilcox]

An interview I conducted with Manitowoc County Assistant District Attorney Michael Griesbach, author of the Steven Avery-based books, "The Innocent Killer" and "Indefensible":

https://truecrimefactor.com/2016/10/02/true-crime-factor-interview-michael-griesbach/

 

[BigCityAccountant]

An interview I conducted with Manitowoc County Assistant District Attorney Michael Griesbach, author of the Steven Avery-based books, "The Innocent Killer" and "Indefensible":

https://truecrimefactor.com/2016/10/02/true-crime-factor-interview-michael-griesbach/

.
Hello Adam and :welcome4:!!!

Thanks for posting that. While, I believe it has been posted before, there are obvious inconsistencies in what MG states. He wasn't part of the investigation of TH's murder.

A very good source for information can be found at:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/

It is all the pictures, trial transcripts, etc from the case that have been crowd sourced. It is a great reference for those who are looking into the case.

 

[proudfootz]

Heres a question I have been pondering re: the blood on ignition of Rav.

How in the heck, whether he was wearing gloves or not, did SA only get blood on that one spot? Wouldn't it also be on the steering wheel and gear shift?

It is kind of like the key, the only reasonable explanation is that it was planted. There really are no other reasonable possibilities.

Presumably if the person turning the key in the ignition drove it anywhere, the gear shift knob and the steering wheel would have come into play.

Just another thing about the scenario cooked up about Steven doesn't make any rational sense.

MOO, as usual.

 

[missy1974]

Heres a question I have been pondering re: the blood on ignition of Rav.

How in the heck, whether he was wearing gloves or not, did SA only get blood on that one spot? Wouldn't it also be on the steering wheel and gear shift?

It is kind of like the key, the only reasonable explanation is that it was planted. There really are no other reasonable possibilities.

There is no explanation for this... no other spots of blood in "logical" places. Like the steering wheel, gear shift, or even closer to the actual ignition. The blood was not on the ignition, although it's always referred to as the 'ignition blood', it's actually on the dash in front of the ignition.

Let's expand on this... so he has blood... smearing and dropping. He closes up the RAV4... no blood found on the outside of any of the doors? No blood on any of the things surrounding the RAV4? ... or as some say, "hiding" the RAV4 :facepalm:

 

[missy1974]

I would really like to hear from some of the "guilters" and how they explain these things away. But they don't seem to want to engage when it comes to the tough questions that obviously point to The FACT that SA was obviously framed.

Good luck

 

[IDK]

I would really like to hear from some of the "guilters" and how they explain these things away. But they don't seem to want to engage when it comes to the tough questions that obviously point to The FACT that SA was obviously framed.

I would love to hear that as well. I hope they will "enlighten" us!

 

[missy1974]

An interview I conducted with Manitowoc County Assistant District Attorney Michael Griesbach, author of the Steven Avery-based books, "The Innocent Killer" and "Indefensible":

https://truecrimefactor.com/2016/10/02/true-crime-factor-interview-michael-griesbach/

Since you took the time to post this here, I will take the time to listen to it. I would like to point out that the Wisconsin Innocence Project released a statement in September 2016 in regards to MG's statements, and recent book.

https://law.wisc.edu/newsletter/Wis...ct/The_Wisconsin_Innocence_Project_2016-09-20

While Mr. Griesbach is an Advisory Board member, we want to make clear that Mr. Griesbach does not speak for, or claim to speak for, the Wisconsin Innocence Project or its Advisory Board. We do not join Mr. Griesbach in his argument that Steven Avery is guilty as convicted of the 2005 homicide of Theresa Halbach. We also agree that several of Mr. Griesbach’s specific statements in his recent writings are problematic.


Welcome to the MaM Forum :wagon:

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I have a question, don't know if anyone knows the answer. If so, feel free to chime in.

Was Delores Avery home at the time TH was there? If so, wouldn't she have heard TH screaming for help?

 

[missy1974]

I have a question, don't know if anyone knows the answer. If so, feel free to chime in.

Was Delores Avery home at the time TH was there? If so, wouldn't she have heard TH screaming for help?

I believe she would have been home. I don't know if she would have heard anything or not, she lived at the entrance to the business, near the business buildings. And, of course, we don't have any of her statements.