For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[proudfootz]

While looking at the CASO report for my last post... I came across this... I'm not sure if we have discussed this or not, if we did... I don't recall!

Pagel's report.... he got TH's bank records...

A check of the financial records revealed no recent activity specifically no activity since Monday,10/31/05.
​

Since the 31st? does that mean she did some sort of transaction or banking on the 31st? Where? What time? I would be interested in knowing what that transaction was!


http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=42

Well, I hope it wasn't cleaning out the account.

 

[missy1974]

Here's a thought for the day....

If SA and JS's RECORDED jail calls were so revealing and would prove SA was a murderer, why didn't the State use them in the trial?

 

[proudfootz]

Here's a thought for the day....

If SA and JS's RECORDED jail calls were so revealing and would prove SA was a murderer, why didn't the State use them in the trial?

I've never seen anything from transcripts of the calls that were the least bit incriminating. All the speculation about these calls being 'suspicious' seems to be self contradictory:

If Steven mentions something mundane it is sinister because why else would anyone talk about something mundane on the phone?

If he gets angry it's proof he's a killer because only murderers get angry.

If he's loving and kind it's only because he knows the calls are recorded.

If he mentions something on the phone like Brendan coming over when it happens, but forgets to mention it a week later it's because he's hiding something. But wait - he knows the calls are recorded, so he's careful to only lie on the phone. So did Brendan come over? Maybe it's a double psych out - Steven tells the truth about Brendan on the phone, knowing the call is recorded, and figuring the cops will think he's lying, but really telling the truth so that he can later neglect to mention Brendan and make the cops look foolish because they think they caught him out in a lie when he was telling the truth all along... Phew! Trying to make something sinister about this is too much work!

If Steven is talkative it is because he's controlling - but if he's not talkative it's because he's busy cleaning up two bloody crime scenes, chopping up a corpse, burning the body parts on three different fires each about 50 yards from the others, and parking an SUV a quarter mile away and walking back. No other possible explanation for that one.

At some point Steven mentioned going back home from Crivitz in a call he knew was being recorded. Another fake out? Not this time - obviously some sneaky criminal mastermind move: letting cops know exactly when he plans to destroy some evidence he already had a week to destroy.

Steven didn't talk about Teresa coming to take photos like he did on those other occasions she came over. No, wait a minute - there's no evidence he ever talked to Jodi about the other times Teresa came to take photos. If he did mention her, it would have been to leave a false trail, because Steven knew the calls were recorded. Either way, it's incriminating.

But seriously, you're correct - there's nothing there. The fact that both Brendan and Steven were on the phone at random times during the afternoon and evening would seem to indicate they were just puttering around doing nothing wrong.

All MOO

 

[CoolJ]

I've never seen anything from transcripts of the calls that were the least bit incriminating. All the speculation about these calls being 'suspicious' seems to be self contradictory:

If Steven mentions something mundane it is sinister because why else would anyone talk about something mundane on the phone?

If he gets angry it's proof he's a killer because only murderers get angry.

If he's loving and kind it's only because he knows the calls are recorded.

If he mentions something on the phone like Brendan coming over when it happens, but forgets to mention it a week later it's because he's hiding something. But wait - he knows the calls are recorded, so he's careful to only lie on the phone. So did Brendan come over? Maybe it's a double psych out - Steven tells the truth about Brendan on the phone, knowing the call is recorded, and figuring the cops will think he's lying, but really telling the truth so that he can later neglect to mention Brendan and make the cops look foolish because they think they caught him out in a lie when he was telling the truth all along... Phew! Trying to make something sinister about this is too much work!

If Steven is talkative it is because he's controlling - but if he's not talkative it's because he's busy cleaning up two bloody crime scenes, chopping up a corpse, burning the body parts on three different fires each about 50 yards from the others, and parking an SUV a quarter mile away and walking back. No other possible explanation for that one.

At some point Steven mentioned going back home from Crivitz in a call he knew was being recorded. Another fake out? Not this time - obviously some sneaky criminal mastermind move: letting cops know exactly when he plans to destroy some evidence he already had a week to destroy.

Steven didn't talk about Teresa coming to take photos like he did on those other occasions she came over. No, wait a minute - there's no evidence he ever talked to Jodi about the other times Teresa came to take photos. If he did mention her, it would have been to leave a false trail, because Steven knew the calls were recorded. Either way, it's incriminating.

But seriously, you're correct - there's nothing there. The fact that both Brendan and Steven were on the phone at random times during the afternoon and evening would seem to indicate they were just puttering around doing nothing wrong.

All MOO

At this point all I can do is laugh at these comments. It is becoming quite clear that the Kratz narrative is being repeated over and over in a few different places. Anyone who has researched this case with an open mind can clearly see the lies. Kratz is a master manipulator.... so much so that he now has people all over the world repeating the fairy tale. I actually think some of them even believe it. But not Kratz, he knows he is lying and manupulating. He even knows that most people listening to him know he is lying. He doesn't care. His only defense at this point is to deny, deny, deny. I hope he ends up in the clink where he belongs with all of the other like minded crooks. Maybe him and Steven can become pen pals again.

 

[dexter75]

Here's a thought for the day....

If SA and JS's RECORDED jail calls were so revealing and would prove SA was a murderer, why didn't the State use them in the trial?

Yeeeaas
😀

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[dexter75]

I've never seen anything from transcripts of the calls that were the least bit incriminating. All the speculation about these calls being 'suspicious' seems to be self contradictory:

If Steven mentions something mundane it is sinister because why else would anyone talk about something mundane on the phone?

If he gets angry it's proof he's a killer because only murderers get angry.

If he's loving and kind it's only because he knows the calls are recorded.

If he mentions something on the phone like Brendan coming over when it happens, but forgets to mention it a week later it's because he's hiding something. But wait - he knows the calls are recorded, so he's careful to only lie on the phone. So did Brendan come over? Maybe it's a double psych out - Steven tells the truth about Brendan on the phone, knowing the call is recorded, and figuring the cops will think he's lying, but really telling the truth so that he can later neglect to mention Brendan and make the cops look foolish because they think they caught him out in a lie when he was telling the truth all along... Phew! Trying to make something sinister about this is too much work!

If Steven is talkative it is because he's controlling - but if he's not talkative it's because he's busy cleaning up two bloody crime scenes, chopping up a corpse, burning the body parts on three different fires each about 50 yards from the others, and parking an SUV a quarter mile away and walking back. No other possible explanation for that one.

At some point Steven mentioned going back home from Crivitz in a call he knew was being recorded. Another fake out? Not this time - obviously some sneaky criminal mastermind move: letting cops know exactly when he plans to destroy some evidence he already had a week to destroy.

Steven didn't talk about Teresa coming to take photos like he did on those other occasions she came over. No, wait a minute - there's no evidence he ever talked to Jodi about the other times Teresa came to take photos. If he did mention her, it would have been to leave a false trail, because Steven knew the calls were recorded. Either way, it's incriminating.

But seriously, you're correct - there's nothing there. The fact that both Brendan and Steven were on the phone at random times during the afternoon and evening would seem to indicate they were just puttering around doing nothing wrong.

All MOO

This post here, one of your best! IMO😉
I don't understand Kratz & his reasoning for all of this..whatever gets him going I guess.
I read on one of the Avery FB pages, Dr. Phil was airing a JB vs KK interview of some sort.
Not sure if it's been confirmed yet or Not?
IMO it'd be quite interesting.



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[proudfootz]

At this point all I can do is laugh at these comments. It is becoming quite clear that the Kratz narrative is being repeated over and over in a few different places. Anyone who has researched this case with an open mind can clearly see the lies. Kratz is a master manipulator.... so much so that he now has people all over the world repeating the fairy tale. I actually think some of them even believe it. But not Kratz, he knows he is lying and manupulating. He even knows that most people listening to him know he is lying. He doesn't care. His only defense at this point is to deny, deny, deny. I hope he ends up in the clink where he belongs with all of the other like minded crooks. Maybe him and Steven can become pen pals again.

BBM

If Steven gets out and KK goes in, then Steven can offer a nice book deal if KK will 'come clean' about his criminal activities.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I've never seen anything from transcripts of the calls that were the least bit incriminating. All the speculation about these calls being 'suspicious' seems to be self contradictory:

If Steven mentions something mundane it is sinister because why else would anyone talk about something mundane on the phone?

If he gets angry it's proof he's a killer because only murderers get angry.

If he's loving and kind it's only because he knows the calls are recorded.

If he mentions something on the phone like Brendan coming over when it happens, but forgets to mention it a week later it's because he's hiding something. But wait - he knows the calls are recorded, so he's careful to only lie on the phone. So did Brendan come over? Maybe it's a double psych out - Steven tells the truth about Brendan on the phone, knowing the call is recorded, and figuring the cops will think he's lying, but really telling the truth so that he can later neglect to mention Brendan and make the cops look foolish because they think they caught him out in a lie when he was telling the truth all along... Phew! Trying to make something sinister about this is too much work!

If Steven is talkative it is because he's controlling - but if he's not talkative it's because he's busy cleaning up two bloody crime scenes, chopping up a corpse, burning the body parts on three different fires each about 50 yards from the others, and parking an SUV a quarter mile away and walking back. No other possible explanation for that one.

At some point Steven mentioned going back home from Crivitz in a call he knew was being recorded. Another fake out? Not this time - obviously some sneaky criminal mastermind move: letting cops know exactly when he plans to destroy some evidence he already had a week to destroy.

Steven didn't talk about Teresa coming to take photos like he did on those other occasions she came over. No, wait a minute - there's no evidence he ever talked to Jodi about the other times Teresa came to take photos. If he did mention her, it would have been to leave a false trail, because Steven knew the calls were recorded. Either way, it's incriminating.

But seriously, you're correct - there's nothing there. The fact that both Brendan and Steven were on the phone at random times during the afternoon and evening would seem to indicate they were just puttering around doing nothing wrong.

All MOO

.
OH...and don't forget he was asking Jodi where she worked while she was locked up. Even if she did work somewhere at that time, I doubt the job was still be available when she got out of the clink.

RE: coming back from Crivitz
If SA was planning on crushing the Rav4 when he got back, don't you think he would have said...Hey EA, don't let them cops on the property, you know how they framed me before and I wouldn't put it past them to try to do it again. Then EA wouldn't have let searchers on the property. Surely, he had something to hid. :facepalm:

 

[missy1974]

.
OH...and don't forget he was asking Jodi where she worked while she was locked up. Even if she did work somewhere at that time, I doubt the job was still be available when she got out of the clink.

RE: coming back from Crivitz
If SA was planning on crushing the Rav4 when he got back, don't you think he would have said...Hey EA, don't let them cops on the property, you know how they framed me before and I wouldn't put it past them to try to do it again. Then EA wouldn't have let searchers on the property. Surely, he had something to hid. :facepalm:

I'm curious... was SA ever asked what his plans were that day? Did he say he WASN'T planning on coming back that day? I think day trips to the cabin was a normal thing? I'm also curious.... when SA talked to Jodi on the 31st.... did they talk about what her lawyer said that day when he talked to him/her? IIRC it was the next day that JS was supposed to go to some sort of meeting and wasn't allowed to go, and in an interview in the past year, she said she still didn't know why they didn't let her go .... was that what SA was calling around about on the 31st for Jodi? If it was... did they discuss that on the phone?

KK makes it sound like SA was going back to a 40 acre Salvage Yard with no one there if he was going back on the 31st. Barb was there.... Blain was there IIRC, and we know for sure that Bobby was around too, with his buddy Mike... and what about Scott T.? If Barb was around, was ST? Earl only lived 10-15 minutes away. It's like explaining burning a body in a fire pit on a night that people are coming and going all night.. NOT very logical. Also, wasn't there something about needing 2 people to crush a car? 1 person couldn't do it on their own? So who was he going to recruit to help him.... couldn't hook Brendan on that... he was still at the cabin, would have to hook another Dassey boy.

 

[proudfootz]

There is nothing that makes any sense about scenarios floated which purport to show that Steven (and Brendan) committed any crimes against Teresa Halbach.

Steven tells everyone in the county when his chosen victim is supposed to fall into his trap.

Steven allegedly attacks his victim at his place of work while it is open, with friends, family, and customers coming and going at all hours.

Steven allegedly involves his teenage nephew in this crime because... No reason. Just needed to make sure there was a witness.

Steven allegedly shot his victim multiple times without concern that gunfire can be heard and would be remarkable in the residential area.

Steven allegedly burned his victim and her effects in several locations - one of which was his neighbor's yard!

Steven allegedly 'hides' his victim's vehicle in the least logical spot on the property where he lived, taking no action to dispose of the vehicle in any way, shape, or form.

Steven allows police free rein to search his home even though he didn't need to, knowing evidence linking him to the crime is in plain sight on the floor where police have to practically step over it to enter his bedroom.

Steven leaves home for the weekend while the investigation into the disappearance of his alleged victim continues to concentrate on him. Steven could easily have stayed behind and blocked any further action and used the time to dispose of the evidence he so carefully preserved over the past week.

There's nothing incriminating in anything Steven has said or done AFAICT, and it appears to me based on witness accounts that there is no real opportunity to accomplish all the things attributed to Steven even if they were credible.

All MOO

 

[dexter75]

There is nothing that makes any sense about scenarios floated which purport to show that Steven (and Brendan) committed any crimes against Teresa Halbach.

Steven tells everyone in the county when his chosen victim is supposed to fall into his trap.

Steven allegedly attacks his victim at his place of work while it is open, with friends, family, and customers coming and going at all hours.

Steven allegedly involves his teenage nephew in this crime because... No reason. Just needed to make sure there was a witness.

Steven allegedly shot his victim multiple times without concern that gunfire can be heard and would be remarkable in the residential area.

Steven allegedly burned his victim and her effects in several locations - one of which was his neighbor's yard!

Steven allegedly 'hides' his victim's vehicle in the least logical spot on the property where he lived, taking no action to dispose of the vehicle in any way, shape, or form.

Steven allows police free rein to search his home even though he didn't need to, knowing evidence linking him to the crime is in plain sight on the floor where police have to practically step over it to enter his bedroom.

Steven leaves home for the weekend while the investigation into the disappearance of his alleged victim continues to concentrate on him. Steven could easily have stayed behind and blocked any further action and used the time to dispose of the evidence he so carefully preserved over the past week.

There's nothing incriminating in anything Steven has said or done AFAICT, and it appears to me based on witness accounts that there is no real opportunity to accomplish all the things attributed to Steven even if they were credible.

All MOO

Exactly
This man had been in PRISON before.
He knew what was at steak. He knew how HARD of a fight it was to get him out after the first 12-18 years
yet he said " come on in, and while you're in, I'll leave! "
He didn't hire a lawyer, he didn't try to block anything, and he played pussyfoot with the cops as much & as long as they wanted him to. Sounds about right to me
*facepalm
Oh, along with everything YOU have stated already of course😀


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[BigCityAccountant]

So, I think I beat you to your favorite author Jaddie! :loveyou:

10 Years Later Steven Avery Verdict Still in the Spotlight

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...teven-avery-verdict-still-spotlight/99268418/

 

[missy1974]

why do some think it's so strange that SA would immediately think LE was framing him for "something"? I mean seriously... here's a guy that spent 18 years in prison (yeah yeah... 6 was for blah blah blah)... because of LE's actions and he was wrongfully convicted. He files a lawsuit, and the process is already rolling, they are literally taking depositions for said lawsuit, and literally a few days before hand, KP was trying to fight having to do his deposition when a judge tells him he MUST answer the questions. I am sure SA was being updated about all of this as it was happening, and he was present while depositions were being done. So when LE shows up at his door asking questions about a missing girl... why wouldn't he wonder wth was going on? He had family members and friends telling him he should move out of the county.... that they would get him, etc. So when LE shows up at his door... of course he would be thinking they are trying to set me up for something again, trying to frame me, trying to make me go away. It's not like he got out of prison and was just living his life... he was suing the same LE agency that showed up at his door and it was in full swing... in the news and everything. It's crazy to me that someone thinks that it's not LOGICAL (oh how I know some hate that word) that he would immediately go to "they are framing me"... ESPECIALLY if he KNOWS he did nothing wrong.

JMO and all that jazz ;-)

 

[missy1974]

I see that in another thread, they are still talking about MaM and implying that we are not smart enough to get past a Netflix series to read the available information that has been released since MaM. Seems that others are not able to get beyond it and are still hanging on. I will focus on the available documents, and get my information from the source, which is what most of us that are still here have been doing since watching the show, and for some before even watching the show! I am thankful for MaM... but I'm not going to take anyone's word for it unless I can read or hear it myself. JMO

 

[Safeguard]

I see that in another thread, they are still talking about MaM and implying that we are not smart enough to get past a Netflix series to read the available information that has been released since MaM. Seems that others are not able to get beyond it and are still hanging on. I will focus on the available documents, and get my information from the source, which is what most of us that are still here have been doing since watching the show, and for some before even watching the show! I am thankful for MaM... but I'm not going to take anyone's word for it unless I can read or hear it myself. JMO

The way I see it, they have to keep rehashing that tired old "MaM used VuDoo" argument because they've got a lot of" nothing much" to work with.

In the actual case files, there is enough evidence that something shady went down to choke a horse. But staunch refusal to see, ALL LE, as anything BUT *White Knights* means sometimes, (over & over again in this case!), falling back on shooting the messenger...

And grasping at bath towel's that turn into wash clothes.., Paying for and revering writings of a sadomasochistic criminal, (with possible necrophiliac tendencies!)... They've got a whole cast of miserable examples of integrity, to quote in support of their LE Nirvana...

I can't wait to hear their fanciful tales of trickery, used by Zellner, when SA & BD walk free.

 

[proudfootz]

I haven't even referenced or cited MaM, because I have no practical way to do it. I don't link to video clips from the documentary.

I get all my citations from written documentation.

Anyone who tries to criticize my judgements for 'blindly following Netflix' is barking up the wrong tree.

As for Steven's suspicion of LE framing him for a crime against Teresa, I agree with missy1974 that it seems like an obvious conclusion for him to draw. Steven and these cops were up to their eyeballs in a lawsuit involving a frame up job that landed him in prison. Not the sort of thing that would be far from his mind - it was a big deal. I just don't get how anyone can dismiss this lawsuit as being one of the uppermost things in the minds of everyone involved.

MOO

 

[Karinna]

I haven't even referenced or cited MaM, because I have no practical way to do it. I don't link to video clips from the documentary.

I get all my citations from written documentation.

Anyone who tries to criticize my judgements for 'blindly following Netflix' is barking up the wrong tree.

As for Steven's suspicion of LE framing him for a crime against Teresa, I agree with missy1974 that it seems like an obvious conclusion for him to draw. Steven and these cops were up to their eyeballs in a lawsuit involving a frame up job that landed him in prison. Not the sort of thing that would be far from his mind - it was a big deal. I just don't get how anyone can dismiss this lawsuit as being one of the uppermost things in the minds of everyone involved.

MOO

Good post proudfootz & i totally agree. I haven't ever watched the MAM series either, but from scourced documentation, and it is mindboggling how people disregard the obvious in this case. Talk about having blinders on, lol.

 

[dexter75]

why do some think it's so strange that SA would immediately think LE was framing him for "something"? I mean seriously... here's a guy that spent 18 years in prison (yeah yeah... 6 was for blah blah blah)... because of LE's actions and he was wrongfully convicted. He files a lawsuit, and the process is already rolling, they are literally taking depositions for said lawsuit, and literally a few days before hand, KP was trying to fight having to do his deposition when a judge tells him he MUST answer the questions. I am sure SA was being updated about all of this as it was happening, and he was present while depositions were being done. So when LE shows up at his door asking questions about a missing girl... why wouldn't he wonder wth was going on? He had family members and friends telling him he should move out of the county.... that they would get him, etc. So when LE shows up at his door... of course he would be thinking they are trying to set me up for something again, trying to frame me, trying to make me go away. It's not like he got out of prison and was just living his life... he was suing the same LE agency that showed up at his door and it was in full swing... in the news and everything. It's crazy to me that someone thinks that it's not LOGICAL (oh how I know some hate that word) that he would immediately go to "they are framing me"... ESPECIALLY if he KNOWS he did nothing wrong.

JMO and all that jazz ;-)

Yep.

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[dexter75]

I see that in another thread, they are still talking about MaM and implying that we are not smart enough to get past a Netflix series to read the available information that has been released since MaM. Seems that others are not able to get beyond it and are still hanging on. I will focus on the available documents, and get my information from the source, which is what most of us that are still here have been doing since watching the show, and for some before even watching the show! I am thankful for MaM... but I'm not going to take anyone's word for it unless I can read or hear it myself. JMO

Yep.

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[dexter75]

The way I see it, they have to keep rehashing that tired old "MaM used VuDoo" argument because they've got a lot of" nothing much" to work with.

In the actual case files, there is enough evidence that something shady went down to choke a horse. But staunch refusal to see, ALL LE, as anything BUT *White Knights* means sometimes, (over & over again in this case!), falling back on shooting the messenger...

And grasping at bath towel's that turn into wash clothes.., Paying for and revering writings of a sadomasochistic criminal, (with possible necrophiliac tendencies!)... They've got a whole cast of miserable examples of integrity, to quote in support of their LE Nirvana...

I can't wait to hear their fanciful tales of trickery, used by Zellner, when SA & BD walk free.

Your last paragraph, yep😊

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