For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[proudfootz]

Based on maps of ASY it appears that the place Dolores lived in was over 300 yards away from the trailer where Avery lived.

If Teresa was there it would be unlikely in my opinion for Dolores to have heard anything at that distance.

All my own opinions.

 

[proudfootz]

I believe she would have been home. I don't know if she would have heard anything or not, she lived at the entrance to the business, near the business buildings. And, of course, we don't have any of her statements.

It would be interesting to have Dolores's statements. She was with Steven at the time this crime was supposedly being committed - at least according to Steven:

"Steven told us that he had stayed in his home listening to the stereo going nowhere up
until about suppertime. Steven told us that he might have (uncertainty) eaten supper that
evening at his mothers home, which was a usual practice, and after supper if he did eat it
at his mothers, he returned home awaiting a phone call from “Jodi” as “Jodi calls me all
the time”. Steven said that on that Monday he had received two phone calls made to his
house phone from Jodi, but could not recall the times.

Steven could not recall who else would have eaten at his mothers on Monday “don’t
know if Chucky was there or not”. ..”Ma was”. "

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov06.pdf

As per usual, there doesn't seem to have been any interest by investigators in witnesses whose testimony might have disproved their 'theory' of the crime.

MOO

 

[IDK]

It would be interesting to have Dolores's statements. She was with Steven at the time this crime was supposedly being committed - at least according to Steven:

"Steven told us that he had stayed in his home listening to the stereo going nowhere up
until about suppertime. Steven told us that he might have (uncertainty) eaten supper that
evening at his mothers home, which was a usual practice, and after supper if he did eat it
at his mothers, he returned home awaiting a phone call from “Jodi” as “Jodi calls me all
the time”. Steven said that on that Monday he had received two phone calls made to his
house phone from Jodi, but could not recall the times.

Steven could not recall who else would have eaten at his mothers on Monday “don’t
know if Chucky was there or not”. ..”Ma was”. "

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...1/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov06.pdf

As per usual, there doesn't seem to have been any interest by investigators in witnesses whose testimony might have disproved their 'theory' of the crime.

MOO

Yep, either complete tunnel vision or something more sinister. I think those who are adamant about Steven and Brendan's guilt are feeling very threatened right now. That's why they are willing to accept Kratz's "facts" as the truth. In the past they were adamant that if something wasn't presented at trial, it was not a fact! It's sad that they are not able to listen to differing opinions without becoming so distraught that they instigate "time-outs" and the like. Makes it difficult to have a healthy debate, IMO.

 

[missy1974]

Yep, either complete tunnel vision or something more sinister. I think those who are adamant about Steven and Brendan's guilt are feeling very threatened right now. That's why they are willing to accept Kratz's "facts" as the truth. In the past they were adamant that if something wasn't presented at trial, it was not a fact! It's sad that they are not able to listen to differing opinions without becoming so distraught that they instigate "time-outs" and the like. Makes it difficult to have a healthy debate, IMO.

I have read some comments recently on reddit and on the family facebook page about something coming ... soon. (from family members and from those close to others involved). One statement was that a check was cashed. I went down that rabbit hole, thinking no way that could be and anyone would be just finding out now. But one interesting thing that I can't find was asked anywhere of AutoTrader was... did they receive the overnight package from Teresa? The cut off for the next issue was Monday/Tuesday's, from what I understand, she would normally overnight her paperwork with the SD card to AutoTrader. She did tell Dawn that day (according to Dawn's testimony... so choose to believe or not believe, because it wasn't something she mentioned early on), that she needed more mailing labels. They didn't seem to be concerned that they had not heard from her or had her paperwork yet by Thursday. The Schmitz/Sippel appointment was the only one that paid by check. Schmitz put a stop payment on the check. Wiegert's testimony mentions this check... and it was odd wording.

Q. Mr. Schmitz, you learned, wrote a check for the Auto Trader services?
A. I would have to see that report. I don't know how he paid. I think you are right. I recall seeing a check from him.
.........

Q. -- to that. That's a check that you never found?
A. Could you be more specific, never found, period?
Q. It never turned up?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. And you -- you -- you checked into this, so to speak, and found out that the check was never negotiated.
A. I believe, actually, now that you are talking about, he had stopped payment on that check, I think was his testimony, I believe.
Q. And you learned that no one ever presented the check for payment, or tried to cash the check?
A. Not that we have been made aware of.


http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Transcript-Day-18-2007Mar07.pdf#page=231



He recalls seeing a check from him, but it never showed up? Huh??? And his recollection of the check is from Schmitz testimony? not his own investigation? And... "not that we have been made aware of". I started looking at the possibility thinking there was no way that a check trying to be cashed would be something not found until now... and OF COURSE, came away with more questions LOL Seems to be like everything else in this case :facepalm:


oh and...all my friends have been to :jail: LOL

 

[Karinna]

We know the blood of SA's from the vehicle was tested for the presence of EDTA, but was any of the blood of SA's from the vials tested for EDTA for comparison?

 

[IDK]

I have read some comments recently on reddit and on the family facebook page about something coming ... soon. (from family members and from those close to others involved). One statement was that a check was cashed. I went down that rabbit hole, thinking no way that could be and anyone would be just finding out now. But one interesting thing that I can't find was asked anywhere of AutoTrader was... did they receive the overnight package from Teresa? The cut off for the next issue was Monday/Tuesday's, from what I understand, she would normally overnight her paperwork with the SD card to AutoTrader. She did tell Dawn that day (according to Dawn's testimony... so choose to believe or not believe, because it wasn't something she mentioned early on), that she needed more mailing labels. They didn't seem to be concerned that they had not heard from her or had her paperwork yet by Thursday. The Schmitz/Sippel appointment was the only one that paid by check. Schmitz put a stop payment on the check. Wiegert's testimony mentions this check... and it was odd wording.

Q. Mr. Schmitz, you learned, wrote a check for the Auto Trader services?
A. I would have to see that report. I don't know how he paid. I think you are right. I recall seeing a check from him.
.........

Q. -- to that. That's a check that you never found?
A. Could you be more specific, never found, period?
Q. It never turned up?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. And you -- you -- you checked into this, so to speak, and found out that the check was never negotiated.
A. I believe, actually, now that you are talking about, he had stopped payment on that check, I think was his testimony, I believe.
Q. And you learned that no one ever presented the check for payment, or tried to cash the check?
A. Not that we have been made aware of.


http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Transcript-Day-18-2007Mar07.pdf#page=231



He recalls seeing a check from him, but it never showed up? Huh??? And his recollection of the check is from Schmitz testimony? not his own investigation? And... "not that we have been made aware of". I started looking at the possibility thinking there was no way that a check trying to be cashed would be something not found until now... and OF COURSE, came away with more questions LOL Seems to be like everything else in this case :facepalm:


oh and...all my friends have been to :jail: LOL

Awww, about your friends. I hope your family member who was sick is doing much better.
As far as the bolded above, I hate to second guess the defense, but it seems like there were so many missed opportunities in this trial.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of these rumors, for sure. KZ has been awfully quiet lately, which could mean she is about to make a move. Here's hoping!!!

 

[missy1974]

Awww, about your friends. I hope your family member who was sick is doing much better.
As far as the bolded above, I hate to second guess the defense, but it seems like there were so many missed opportunities in this trial.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of these rumors, for sure. KZ has been awfully quiet lately, which could mean she is about to make a move. Here's hoping!!!

Thanks IDK, my Dad is not well, but he is home from the hospital, and we are dealing with it. This case is a much needed distraction. I'm hoping to dive into some of the new documents from BD's trial/post conviction hearings over the next few days! Would be great if KZ filed something.... hint hint KZ LOL

No reason to hate second guessing the defense... they did what they could with what they had IMO There really was only so much they could do, and they didn't have 1000's of people going over documents. IIRC Buting and Strang welcome KZ and her criticism and IMO they just hope she finds something that they missed that proves SA didn't do this.

I was surprised that neither the defense or the state asked the AT employee's if they received the overnight package from TH (unless I missed it in their testimony?) I do recall reading something like they would have been concerned if they didn't hear from her on Thursday... but don't understand why the concern would be Thursday after not submitting, but not Tuesday after doing shoots on Monday. She did have scheduled appointments for Thursday as well, I think this was from her Green Bay area. I will maybe have to do some more reading, maybe it is in the CASO report and I missed it.

I think it's possible that Wiegert saw a duplicate copy of the check that Schmitz wrote, but then it should have been called a duplicate or a copy of... it was his wording in his answers that gave me pause.

Oh and since I am talking about TH, AT and her scheduled appointments... I have read that KK put in his book that Monday was going to TH's last day working for AT and she was quitting.... where in the world does he get that from? Considering she had scheduled appointments for Thursday, and actually rescheduled an appointment the morning of the 31st (morning call to DM from Green Bay), that doesn't indicate to me that she was quitting. Just another one of KK's alternative facts. JMO

 

[proudfootz]

I suppose it ,makes the story more 'dramatic' is it was TH's last day working for Autotrader.

Just like it's more dramatic to say TH was creeped out by Steven after the 'towel incident' and had to be pressured into going there against her better judgement.

These literary touches just add to the aura of fiction which clings to the prosecution story.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

I suppose it ,makes the story more 'dramatic' is it was TH's last day working for Autotrader.

Just like it's more dramatic to say TH was creeped out by Steven after the 'towel incident' and had to be pressured into going there against her better judgement.

These literary touches just add to the aura of fiction which clings to the prosecution story.

MOO

you mean "the small towel incident"

 

[proudfootz]

Next it will be a washcloth.

 

[missy1974]

Not sure where else to put this .... SkippTopp finally got SA's November 9th interrogation video. I'm only about 25 minutes in, it's really really hard to hear, I have headphones on and it's turned all the way up and still hard to hear sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T9k48VbUEI&feature=youtu.be

ETA: oops looks like the link might take you to where I paused lol sorry!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Awww, about your friends. I hope your family member who was sick is doing much better.
As far as the bolded above, I hate to second guess the defense, but it seems like there were so many missed opportunities in this trial.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes of these rumors, for sure. KZ has been awfully quiet lately, which could mean she is about to make a move. Here's hoping!!!

.
LOL~~~IDK~~~I think Missy meant her friends here on WS.

 

[missy1974]

.
LOL~~~IDK~~~I think Missy meant her friends here on WS.

I did :laughing::laughing:

 

[CoolJ]

Not sure where else to put this .... SkippTopp finally got SA's November 9th interrogation video. I'm only about 25 minutes in, it's really really hard to hear, I have headphones on and it's turned all the way up and still hard to hear sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T9k48VbUEI&feature=youtu.be

ETA: oops looks like the link might take you to where I paused lol sorry!

Bad quality VHS recording? That's a red flag right there. There is no reason for a LE agency to not be able to make a quality video recording in 2005.

 

[missy1974]

Bad quality VHS recording? That's a red flag right there. There is no reason for a LE agency to not be able to make a quality video recording in 2005.

Right!!!!!! 2005? VHS was long gone! I haven't turned it back on, I will watch the rest tomorrow, it was so hard to hear, will be easier tomorrow with a quiet house! I can cast it to the TV and I should be able to hear it better ;-) From what I did hear... it's a guy that had a pretty uneventful week until LE showed up... and his days are all mixed up and he doesn't really remember the little details... in the beginning of the interview he showed a bit of frustration about having to repeat himself.

 

[proudfootz]

Oddly enough, when I first started learning about video production in high school they still used reel to reel video machines. It might have been cutting edge when they bought it, but institutions seem to hold onto stuff until long after they're obsolescent.

I also had a Betamax cassette video player.

 

[proudfootz]

In my opinion people have a hard time remembering exactly what happened at what exact time because nothing significant happened during that week - there's no reason to remember common and ordinary stuff like going to work, having dinner, watching TV, playing video games, or talking on the phone. Just another day like every other day.

All the more consistent with Steven's innocence than with the lurid story cooked up by KK and company. If someone breaks the humdrum routine of daily life and suddenly starts abducting people, killing them, cutting them up, and burning their bodies - someone is going to notice the change.

IMO

 

[IDK]

.
LOL~~~IDK~~~I think Missy meant her friends here on WS.

OK, I think that's what I meant but was probably multitasking at the time! Sorry for any confusion.

 

[missy1974]

I read a post yesterday on reddit about the phone calls that KZ identified as LE calling RH on November 4th. I got thinking about it, and decided to go looking in the CASO report to see who was where during the time of the calls.

The calls in red are RH's calls from the 4th that have NO ID on his phone records. Can be found here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...iction-Scientific-Testing_redacted.pdf#page=2

The snips are from the CASO report, and I have indicated what page number. Can be found here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf


Page 31
Wiegert and Pagel go to TH's residence at 10:08am, met with RH and other friends of TH's. 10:35am, they meet with JB, friend of TH's, who tells them about BradC.

Page 40
Baldwin report
At approximately 1319 hours, Sheriff PAGEL and I arrived at LAKESHORE AVIATION. We met with CURT DRUMM and proceeded to fly over the last two known locations where TERESA HALBACH had been on 10/31/05. We searched the area until approximately 1754 hours.

Page 44
Wiegert and Dedering interview BradC at 14:09-14:30

Page 46
Wiegert and Dedering in Green Bay at 14:50 on the 4th. (I believe chasing the # on fax machine)

Page 47
15:05 - 15:20 Dedering is doing a telephone interview with a friend of TH's.

1st call to RH with NO ID

Friday, November 4, 2005 15:11 4min
​

Page 48
Wiegert and Dedering at residence in Green Bay at 15:25 - 15:30

Page 49
Wiegert and Dedering at Pearce Photography 15:58 - 16:50

Friday, November 4, 2005 16:15:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 16:45:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 16:54:00 3min
Friday, November 4, 2005 16:59:00 3min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:03:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:14:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:17:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:24:00 1min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:29:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:33:00 4min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:39:00 4min
​

Page 52
Wiegert and Dedering contact Green Bay PD to check a phone number. They get address and go there at 17:41, no contact made.

Friday, November 4, 2005 17:46:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 17:51:00 2min
Friday, November 4, 2005 18:01:00 3min
Friday, November 4, 2005 18:07:00 4min
Friday, November 4, 2005 18:11:00 3min
Friday, November 4, 2005 18:34:00 7min
Friday, November 4, 2005 18:41:00 5min
Friday, November 4, 2005 19:01:00 4min
Friday, November 4, 2005 19:11:00 3min
Friday, November 4, 2005 19:25:00 5min​

Page 53
Dedering at 19:05 in touch with Cingular Wireless Legal Dept. No mention of Wiegert.
Page 54
Dedering calls SBC security at 19:25. (in regards to the phone # on TH's fax machine). No mention of Wiegert.

---

My thoughts.... if RH was in contact with anyone from CASO, it was Wiegert. Some of the times overlap... HOWEVER.... all of the above snips from CASO around that time were from Dedering's reports, NOT Wiegert's. I could not find Wiegert's reports about any of the things that him and Dedering did on the 4th together. For all we know, Wiegert was sitting in the car the whole time lol I tried searching for any supplemental reports from Wiegert in regards to the 4th and after getting half way through CASO, I gave up. The first 50-100 pages are pretty much in order, it's everything afterwards that seems disorganized in the CASO report.

 

[missy1974]

While looking at the CASO report for my last post... I came across this... I'm not sure if we have discussed this or not, if we did... I don't recall!

Pagel's report.... he got TH's bank records...

A check of the financial records revealed no recent activity specifically no activity since Monday,10/31/05.
​

Since the 31st? does that mean she did some sort of transaction or banking on the 31st? Where? What time? I would be interested in knowing what that transaction was!


http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=42