momsbold1
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Just Click image to view larger, I will have to get with my "tech" people to see why its so small !
Forensic Astrology - KYRON HORMAN disappears 6/4/10 Portland, OR #2
- Thread starter Tuba
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Just Click image to view larger, I will have to get with my "tech" people to see why its so small !
Leomoon80
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Vaire: There actually was a Horary Chart (question of where he was)
posted awhile back, but I have it on my computer, so I can easily just follow through here and post it for you if you could not find it., rather then the 911 phone call chart, or event chart.
Perhaps, we can look at both, and follow Lily's rules (good idea), as per the quote - with the original Horary chart then too?
The question was asked by me on June 12th, 2010 and it would be great if we can then apply the Rules of Horary as laid down by Lily to this chart: (I recall posting it back then, but somewhere it got sidetracked then......as to delineating it)
Leomoon80
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The person who was asking the question was a member of WS here, and I posted this chart from her question. I'm the Astrologer, and she the Member asking the Question about Kyron or the Querent. I can't recall which member that was now, that was however as it's been 6 months old and my memory fades.
I'm not certain, about how a 911 Event chart (phone call in the 3rd house), may coincide or not with Horary as per Lily's rules?
I suppose one might suggest it could however, depending upon the "heart of the question" or in the querents heart as asking
"Where is Kyron?"
Not sure if the secretary (how would we know?)......had this in mind when she called the Police, although we might assume she might, perhaps she was thinking, "I'm going to be later then usual for dinner tonight, because of all of this now occurring at school"
Who knows?
I thought therefore, it may be well to give you the other chart to consider too, although I see already that the Ruler or Lord of the ASC (Mercury) is in a better house, (9th) which bodes well, yet the Ruler of the Chart (Mercury) is square to Saturn conj. the ASC, which does not.
What do you think about the possibilities then?
I'm not certain, about how a 911 Event chart (phone call in the 3rd house), may coincide or not with Horary as per Lily's rules?
I suppose one might suggest it could however, depending upon the "heart of the question" or in the querents heart as asking
"Where is Kyron?"
Not sure if the secretary (how would we know?)......had this in mind when she called the Police, although we might assume she might, perhaps she was thinking, "I'm going to be later then usual for dinner tonight, because of all of this now occurring at school"
Who knows?
I thought therefore, it may be well to give you the other chart to consider too, although I see already that the Ruler or Lord of the ASC (Mercury) is in a better house, (9th) which bodes well, yet the Ruler of the Chart (Mercury) is square to Saturn conj. the ASC, which does not.
What do you think about the possibilities then?
momsbold1
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Leo,
I went with the 911 chart because of two reasons. First, I am so very concerned about the validity of the last seen chart, because there is a very great possibility that SWMNBN lied about the time last seen, and that would make the chart invalid to me. Can the chart be delineated? Of course, every chart has a story to tell. The second reason is that when someone is calling 911, I feel that this is a cry out to the heavens about where someone could be. Especially when the call is concerning a child. There has to be alot of emotion, worry, concern, flowing out of those calls. Last but not least, a colleague of mine, Alphee Lavoie, only uses the 911 charts. Alphee is a Master Horary Astrologer, he actually works with the FBI on missing persons cases. (I am one of his Astro Investigators, we do statistical research concerning Astrology). Most horary astrology folks use their own time and location to erect charts, no matter what time or place the querent submitted the question. Alphee says you can trust God to bring you the questions at the right time. But not so for the 911 Chart. We must look at the time and place of the call. That is where heaven gives its answer. That being said, there is also a matter of standing. What would give us a better result? Although we care deeply, our curiosity about an event that leads us to ask a horary question, or the call to 911 made by the secretary with the parents on the other line? I would imagine the 911 call has more standing. Now I have taken the 911 time, and run the delineation in the style of Lilly. Next, I will take the 911 chart and run it in the style of Alphee, which is really the style of Ivy M. Goldstein-Jacobson, who was the one who actually taught Alphee how to do Horary. Onward we go ! Back to the charts !
We will never stop until he is found, hopefully soon, and hopefully still alive.
I went with the 911 chart because of two reasons. First, I am so very concerned about the validity of the last seen chart, because there is a very great possibility that SWMNBN lied about the time last seen, and that would make the chart invalid to me. Can the chart be delineated? Of course, every chart has a story to tell. The second reason is that when someone is calling 911, I feel that this is a cry out to the heavens about where someone could be. Especially when the call is concerning a child. There has to be alot of emotion, worry, concern, flowing out of those calls. Last but not least, a colleague of mine, Alphee Lavoie, only uses the 911 charts. Alphee is a Master Horary Astrologer, he actually works with the FBI on missing persons cases. (I am one of his Astro Investigators, we do statistical research concerning Astrology). Most horary astrology folks use their own time and location to erect charts, no matter what time or place the querent submitted the question. Alphee says you can trust God to bring you the questions at the right time. But not so for the 911 Chart. We must look at the time and place of the call. That is where heaven gives its answer. That being said, there is also a matter of standing. What would give us a better result? Although we care deeply, our curiosity about an event that leads us to ask a horary question, or the call to 911 made by the secretary with the parents on the other line? I would imagine the 911 call has more standing. Now I have taken the 911 time, and run the delineation in the style of Lilly. Next, I will take the 911 chart and run it in the style of Alphee, which is really the style of Ivy M. Goldstein-Jacobson, who was the one who actually taught Alphee how to do Horary. Onward we go ! Back to the charts !
We will never stop until he is found, hopefully soon, and hopefully still alive.
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
Looks like our posts, just crossed!
Is it possible then for you to also put the posted June 12th Horary onto your program, although I'm sure it's asking a lot.......so we might see the various indications such as you did with this chart?
Even if it's small, we can still open it into large and see it, as it's a very nice program indeed.
Wish I had it, it might make life easier in this regard of study.
momsbold1
New Member
Leo,
And I should add, every one of these charts has a great story to tell, and has wonderful and necessary information to impart. No matter what the time or date or place, a question is a question, and should be treated with a caring and respectful approach. Perhaps no one chart is better than another, and their stories can be woven together ! Wouldn't that be wonderful.........
And I should add, every one of these charts has a great story to tell, and has wonderful and necessary information to impart. No matter what the time or date or place, a question is a question, and should be treated with a caring and respectful approach. Perhaps no one chart is better than another, and their stories can be woven together ! Wouldn't that be wonderful.........
momsbold1
New Member
I use Solar Fire 7, I will run the June 12th chart also. This might take me awhile, I have alot of irons in the fire right now. Should have it posted on here by Monday.
Vaire
Vaire
Leomoon80
Well-Known Member
I agree completely! ALL charts especially when a child is missing and "presumed dead" are important to study in both a respectful and caring way, putting the child and the welfare of the child ahead of any other concerns .
Thanks for doing that for me (the Solar Fire) "Horary" .......I'd really appreciate that for this Horary study
And just as a footnote to your explanation, why you used the 911 Event chart -
It wasn't necessary as I was not challenging your chart at all knowing you must have had your reasons , but simply suggesting you may have missed the HOrary we once posted here.
But I appreciate your response regardless, and especially the fancier chart for study. I respect all ancient Astrology and Astrologers for their insight.
momsbold1
New Member
Leo,
I did not feel challenged, I just wanted to explain why I was using the 911 rather than the last seen. No biggie.
Vaire
I did not feel challenged, I just wanted to explain why I was using the 911 rather than the last seen. No biggie.
Vaire
FifthEssence
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The frustration you feel in cases such as this is understandable, particularly when LE remains 'quiet' about where they're at in the investigation.
Please know that your participation is truly appreciated, but it's necessary we all abide by WS-TOS rules as well as the guidelines noted in the 'sticky' posts at the head of the Forensic Astrology Forum.
I'll be doing some housecleaning in KYRON's thread.
If you have any questions regarding missing posts or deletions, you certainly may contact me via the PM option.
Thank you.
FifthEssence
Hi Sal and all...Not sure if this has been answered but accd'ing to a local it was Sunset...See her post below but she is not sure of the time. She is also trying to locate some pics of the outing. Will post that as soon as found..
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Whoever was looking for the bowling alley:
I enlarged and lightened up the bowling pic of Kyron and was able to identify some of the interior decor. Looking at pics from many bowling sites, it looks like it is very possibly Sunset based on the same booth-type seating and the upholstery fabrics. Their game room pics look similar to other thumbnail pics I have seen of that day. Sorry, I have no info on the time ...
ETA: The thumbnail pics (from T's FB) taken on that day in the game room show bright daylight through the window outside to cars in a parking area.
=============================================
again, sweets. The thumbnails of the bowling day I found at the SM site, page 3 of the Pictures thread in Kyron's discussion there. Still got to find the bigger one of Kyron holding the bowling ball - - for some reason it took a while to search for
http://www.sunsetlanes.com/
Hope this helps....jmo
sweets
Tuba
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Thank you, sweets. I see from their ad that they feature events of the month. Maybe I can get into a Way Back Machine to find what was going on in late May and early June. Certainly, very different times from those promoted now (S.I.N., NFL, Christmas Party, etc.)
froginTtown
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Just curious here.. but can any charts be made of the 911 call on December 26th... Terri's lawyer brought it up during a court hearing... I'm thinking it could be important..
Astral Star
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With regard to Mercury in retrograde & then turning direct on the 30 December, is there a prime time when information that has been withheld could come to the forefront? What would be the optimum time for the public to be informed of anything that has been withheld?
Leomoon80
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After searching the internet for a link as to the time of this 911 call, all I could find is a reference to "Houze" and making a probable error, in saying it was a 911 call on December 26th, when it was really on June 26th (the Sting failing)....and again on June 26 same day, saying that Kaine had taken their little girl.
IF there was a 911 call made on December 26th, then we of course would need a time for this call, and there is nothing I can find on the internet other then questions as to the accuracy of the date itself.
Do you have any links regarding substantiating this December 26th, date for a 911 call or did you read the reference on various other board (forums) about it being made?
In any event, even IF there had been such a call made, we'd still need the TIME of day it was made to 911 to erect a chart.
:waitasec:
Doodles
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The existence of the December 911 call is wrapped in mystery and under seal by LE if it does exist. In the past month or so I have seen statements about the date and the subject of the call in a forum or two but without an official source link, and the call may be nothing more than speculation or a story planted by internet trolls.
Doodles
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If anyone is looking for a day and time to chart, here is one that has always bothered me.
"Reward In Kyron Horman Case Now $50,000"
http://www.kptv.com/news/24412926/detail.html
"... His disappearance sparked the largest search in state history and a $25,000 reward for information. That reward is set to increase at 3 p.m. Tuesday."
Tuesday, July 27, 2010
Posted by KPTV:
POSTED: 2:16 pm PDT July 27, 2010
UPDATED: 8:16 pm PDT July 27, 2010
What bothered me at the time was that LE seemed to me to be sending a message with the announcement of the increase in the reward. There was emphasis on the time the reward would be increased to $50,000 (3pm). In my mind, they were offering someone the increased reward to return Kyron and the contact would have something to do with 3pm. Perhaps just my imagination.
There is a video at the end of the article, but this video does not show the emphasis on the amount and the time. If it is important, I will see if I can find another video.
"Reward In Kyron Horman Case Now $50,000"
http://www.kptv.com/news/24412926/detail.html
"... His disappearance sparked the largest search in state history and a $25,000 reward for information. That reward is set to increase at 3 p.m. Tuesday."
Tuesday, July 27, 2010
Posted by KPTV:
POSTED: 2:16 pm PDT July 27, 2010
UPDATED: 8:16 pm PDT July 27, 2010
What bothered me at the time was that LE seemed to me to be sending a message with the announcement of the increase in the reward. There was emphasis on the time the reward would be increased to $50,000 (3pm). In my mind, they were offering someone the increased reward to return Kyron and the contact would have something to do with 3pm. Perhaps just my imagination.
There is a video at the end of the article, but this video does not show the emphasis on the amount and the time. If it is important, I will see if I can find another video.
Tuba
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To look for days & times to chart would be going at this crime the wrong way round. I don't think you will catch us doing that, Doodles. Fifth Essence is planning to repost on this thread what qualifies as an event. The increase in reward doesn't make the cut. Our task force is, so far, next to silent on the facts of the case. When the subject turns to rewards, they heave a sigh because this is a topic they feel free to talk about. In no way does offering a reward for valuable information jeopardise the investigation. Rewards are an expected adjunct to crime solving & they regularly increase as various people donate.
There is certainly room for debate on whether the silence is helpful. Many cases are solved using full participation of the public. You and I have seen many go cold where the public is left out. Murder in Spokane is an excellent read on just this topic.
As to the action of Mercury retrograde on task force silence, I have to say it did not coincide with the withholding of information. There was no notable change this month when Mercury went backward. We have been kept outside this investigation from its inception. Even so, Astral Star, the direct of Mercury which occurs on December 30, will produce public announcements in many of our cases because it is in the Sign of publicity when it turns and the Moon of public sentiment conjoins Mercury the next day. Year end wrap-ups are a feature of some high profile crimes because police are sensitive to the public's desire to know.
There is certainly room for debate on whether the silence is helpful. Many cases are solved using full participation of the public. You and I have seen many go cold where the public is left out. Murder in Spokane is an excellent read on just this topic.
As to the action of Mercury retrograde on task force silence, I have to say it did not coincide with the withholding of information. There was no notable change this month when Mercury went backward. We have been kept outside this investigation from its inception. Even so, Astral Star, the direct of Mercury which occurs on December 30, will produce public announcements in many of our cases because it is in the Sign of publicity when it turns and the Moon of public sentiment conjoins Mercury the next day. Year end wrap-ups are a feature of some high profile crimes because police are sensitive to the public's desire to know.
Doodles
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Thank you, Tuba. It was the odd presentation of the time of the reward increase, not the reward increase itself, that bothered me. It could be that the speaker's discomfort in front of the media was the reason for emphasis on when the reward would be available.
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