Forensic reports in

[sweetwater]

The car was driven back from the towyard on July 15. What day did LE take it from the Anthony's ... does anyone know?

This goes to another of Cindy's distortions of fact, time, ... events.
The 16th. I'll post a timeline or link if I can get through. Having server issues.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Appreciated it greatly. I wasn't too sure what to think (and really didn't want to think, anyway) about that possibility, so thanks. DH has a chemistry degree and is tired of my asking him questions about this case... imagine that?!?!?

I am SHOCKED and COMPLETELY TAKEN ABACK that anyone would conclude that too much time and thought is being given to this case.

We'd be happy to write you an excusing note for DH! :wink:

Actually, we need your DH and Insomnia's cousin, the forensic pathologist to get here on the double.:woohoo::woohoo:

 

[LCoastMom]

Hey, did anyone else notice this from the Body Farm report?

WTH is BlueStar? Just wondering ...

Concentrated t/bowl cleaner.

 

[Chezhire]

the wrapping or container would have to be pourous for the
fluids to escape and penetrate the trunk lining and the spare
tire cover which is underneath the lining .

Dont forget the statement " we know what position her body was lying in while in the trunk " which to me indicates an impression or something created an outline which makes a container very unlikely - I am thinking blanket or a tarp something like that -

well, IF, and I'm saying IF because I haven't seen what I deem a credible source (ie, someone other than a newsreporter personally quoted or saying it) they DO HAVE EVIDENCE reflecting the position of the body in the trunk, then the container had to have been permeable.

 

[Chezhire]

:laugh:


Yeah I hear ya.:crazy:

I am guessing he correctly filed as the same discovery requests would trigger the authorized taking of depositions and news has been reporting that will commence next week.:blowkiss:

I double checked the rules to make sure the depo's and the other discovery would be provisional to the same requests.:bang:

Great - that helps me really evaluate what he's doing (and not doing... :doh: )

 

[ishouldbworking]

I think this is in relation to my question about LE taking the car ... and you're right. Thank you.

From the first set of documents released. George's written statement that car was released to OCSD. Page 41 of pdf document. Page 38 of original OCSO documents.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=236&day=2008-7-16&c=4

it was. i got excited and hit post before i clarified!

:crazy:

 

[Wine sleuth]

This goes to another of Cindy's distortions of fact, time, ... events.
The 16th. I'll post a timeline or link if I can get through. Having server issues.

Remember that Yuri called CA on the fact that she told reporters that LE didnt pick the car up for 48 hrs. It's on the video interview of CA where she says she didnt realize she was under oath after Yuri has her swear her statements are true.

 

[4oneluv]

anaerobic decomposition

interesting

Anaerobic Decomposition (Fermentation)
Anaerobic decomposition takes place in nature, as in the decomposition of the organic muds at the bottom of marshes and in buried organic materials to which oxygen does not have access. Intensive reduction of organic matter by putrefaction is usually accompanied by disagreeable odors of hydrogen sulfide and reduced organic compounds which contain sulfur, such as mercaptans (any sulfur-containing organic compound).

Putrefactive breakdown of organic material takes place anaerobically. Organic compounds break down by the action of living organisms that do not require air in the normal sense. These organisms use nitrogen, phosphorus, and other nutrients to live and to develop cell protoplasm, but they reduce the organic nitrogen to organic acids and ammonia. The carbon from the organic compounds which is not utilized in the cell protein is liberated mainly in the reduced form of methane (CH4). A small portion of carbon may be respired as carbon dioxide (C02).

Since anaerobic destruction of organic matter is a reduction process, the final product, humus, is subject to some aerobic oxidation when put on the soil, that is, it may appear to decompose further after being exposed to air. This oxidation is minor, takes place rapidly, and is of no consequence in the utilization of the material on the soil. In other words, much less heat is generated in anaerobic decomposition than in aerobic decomposition.

The lack of heat generated in the anaerobic destruction of organic matter is a definite disadvantage if contaminated materials areused for composting. High temperatures are needed for the destruction of pathogens and parasites. In anaerobic decomposition the pathogenic organisms do eventually disappear in the organic mass, as a result of the unfavorable environment and biological antagonisms. The disappearance is slow, and the material must be held for periods of six months to a year to ensure relatively complete destruction of pathogens, such as the eggs of Ascaris, nematodes which are among the most resistant of the fecal-borne disease parasites in wastes. Therefore, make compost this year and use it next year.

However, organic material can be decomposed anaerobically to produce compost. For instance, a heavy plastic bag can be used to decompose grass clippings or other high nitrogen materials, shredded leaves, kitchen trimmings, a small amount of stable manure or other compostable materials. However, as anaerobic compost can have a strong odor (and may need to be aired prior to using), it is not usually the first choice for home owners. For more details see Structures.

 

[Blink34]

Maybe because it was said that they would be able to determine who the father was based on the DNA ? They likely have DNA on -- from the autopsy.

Notably, that individual's blood sample, taken from him following the accident in which he was killed to determine if any blood or alcohol was involved, WHICH WAS NOT, was court ordered to be preserved for testing in this case, very early on... Interesting. For the record, and not to get off topic, by all accounts this was a great kid, if it does turn out he is bio dad, I am 100% positive he never knew. Maybe I just really want him to be so his family can file suit as his/her heirs to stop anyone from making money off this nightmare.

 

[ishouldbworking]

Remember that Yuri called CA on the fact that she told reporters that LE didnt pick the car up for 48 hrs. It's on the video interview of CA where she says she didnt realize she was under oath after Yuri has her swear her statements are true.

that's why the date stuck out in my head...

 

[Elphaba]

I definitely think there is much more we haven't been shown... in my opinion it has to be, to have pulled off getting a GJ to indict on murder 1. Unfortunately, though, I think the Anthony's will nitpick this report apart to argue their stance that Caylee is still alive.

Don't kill me... but I wish the FBI had just kept this info close at hand and just waited until the trial to start trotting out evidence.

 

[believe09]

Or, she transferred her body into a leakproof container at 2.6 days of decomp and continued to drive around with her in the car until the 27th.

I know you guys have talked about garbage bags, as has LP-I was sold on the idea of a picnic cooler or beer cooler...but now I am thinking a small duffel? There should be some kind of impression if poor Caylee was in fabric decomposing and it leaked onto the trunk...does that make sense?

 

[Blink34]

Remember that Yuri called CA on the fact that she told reporters that LE didnt pick the car up for 48 hrs. It's on the video interview of CA where she says she didnt realize she was under oath after Yuri has her swear her statements are true.

Your right, he gets her to commit her error and that it was less than 2 hours, actually.

 

[Capri]

Exactly correct. By the way, there IS both anaerobic and aerobic decomp taking place when an organism dies (animal or human)...but this is the anaerobic process described in the report. NOT meaning that the body was in an airtight container OR low oxygen trunk.

Thanks for the clarifications. I'm thinking I need to go back and reread.

 

[faefrost]

Please please forgive me, for I haven't read all the docs (trying to get the news here LOL).

So, are the docs stating no dirt or sand was found and that it was clean? Surely Simon would have noticed anything like that. JMO

BTW, Last night, Dr. Bethany on NG made the comments about wondering what key words KC used to look up the chloroform. My curiosity got me so I googled the words "chloroform parties" since I had seen that pic on RM myspace.

What I found was eerie considering everything. It's basically cartoon captions and some of them deal with putting kids to sleep with chloroform.


http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:...nk&cd=18&gl=us

The docs I was reading seem to be mostly from the FBI "Hair and Fiber" Lab and the tests on the air in the trunk. Beyond some references to gasoline and chloroform they did not seem to go into further details of any materials found, so I dont think todays reports (at least the ones that I read) fully cover the chemical and dirt debris and soil analysis. Nor any biological testing beyond that done by hair and fiber.

Also remember that todays reports only concern those specifics samples tested and tests requested by the FBI labs. Florida still has the lead in this case so alot of the tests may heve been done by the Florida state labs.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

I'll ask him to join us. He's at school now and I caught him in lab so he was able to talk. I'll see if I can get him tonight or tomorrow to come and explain all of this in real people terms LOL!

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss: Tell him PLEASE & :blowkiss:



http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Decomposition

 

[Chezhire]

Yes great thought, or perhaps if the scratches yielded any other foreign paint matter, by like, hypothetically, backing your car up too closely to a dumpster in the dark and trying to open the trunk with the button on the inside

So true. Wonder when LE will test, if they haven't already? Do we have rulings from Judge S on all the pending motions yet? If we do, could someone please give me a link? I need to read them, especially his ruling on the future testing. The specific language he used/uses will be very important if LE hasn't already tested certain things....

 

[Theonly1]

What the prosecution could infer from this evidence:

They (the criminalists) find one hair in the trunk of the sunfire usually driven by Casey (but accessed by members of her family). The hair (upon microscopic analysis) is indistinguishable from the hair on Caylee’s hairbrush. Typically, when viewed under a microscope, hairs are easily seen as being different in length, color, thickness, evidence of bleaching, and so on. The hair towards the root shows what is known as a “death band” or dark band that appears when a human dies and decomposition begins. To see “whose” hair it is the remaining “debris” is sent for MtDNA testing. Mitochondrial DNA is DNA that is passed down from female to female (and so Cindy’s mitochondrial DNA would match Casey and Caylee). The mitochondrial DNA comes back as a match to Casey (and Caylee). As Casey and Cindy are alive and accounted for, then it would lead us to believe that Caylee is in fact the donor of the hair and deceased.

Then we have heard about the stink in the trunk. The tow yard guy smelled it and likened it to a suicide he’d smelled previously. George had smelled it and admitted he did not like it at all. Cindy told the 911 operator that there smelled like there was a body in the damn car. I think we can agree that the sunfire was reeking. Air tests are performed by the Body Farm to determine the chemicals in the air of the trunk. The chemicals come back showing: 1) chloroform, 2) evidence of human decomposition (especially in its early stages).

The Body Farm rules *out* the chemicals found during pizza and animal decomposition.
The Body Farm narrows down and focuses only on the chemicals omitted during the human decomposition and they find way over the normal amount in that trunk (to put it lightly). They also run their tests against control samples to see which chemicals are naturally occurring in a sunfire trunk. Their opinion is that there was human decomposition in that sunfire’s trunk. We have heard no evidence of the sunfire being used to transport dead bodies (like a morgue van) or any logical reason for there to be human decomp in there.

It is also noted that the chloroform found (perhaps this was the “stain”) is more concentrated (perhaps this is the wrong term) in the spare tire cover area. Four areas or swatches were tested from the tire cover and they all come up positive for chloroform. The trunk “liner” area shows “consistent with chloroform” which one could assume is a less concentrated or definitive amount. Why would the chloroform be less concentrated in the trunk’s liner but more concentrated on the spare tire and spare tire cover? Perhaps was the trunk cleaned but the spare tire area missed?

So, to sum, we have 1) a hair indistinguishable from Caylee with a death band in the trunk, 2) a stink of decomposition in the trunk, 3) Air tests showing chloroform and evidence of human decomposition, and 4) physical samples showing chloroform on different parts of the trunk. What did I miss?

***

 

[sweetwater]

Remember that Yuri called CA on the fact that she told reporters that LE didnt pick the car up for 48 hrs. It's on the video interview of CA where she says she didnt realize she was under oath after Yuri has her swear her statements are true.

:blowkiss::blowkiss:
Thank you.
:liar::liar::liar:
That's our poor Cindy "lying is not a criminal offense" Anthony.

 

[Capri]

I definitely think there is much more we haven't been shown... in my opinion it has to be, to have pulled off getting a GJ to indict on murder 1. Unfortunately, though, I think the Anthony's will nitpick this report apart to argue their stance that Caylee is still alive.

Don't kill me... but I wish the FBI had just kept this info close at hand and just waited until the trial to start trotting out evidence.

Not to worry Elph- If they're trotting this out now, there's plenty more. Remember, less than an hour for the GJ to decide. They've got plenty.