France - 5 shot, 4 dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, 2012 #2

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The handgun used in these slayings was a Luger P08. The handguns were issued to Swiss Army reservists in the 1930's and 1940's and many have found their way (illegally) into the neighboring regions of France. If a local deranged individual went on a shooting spree, that would be a likely weapon of choice. Of course, if an Intelligence Operative want a shooting to look like it was done by a local deranged individual, he would likely use one as well.

The Luger P08 is hardly an antique. It was an accurate reliable handgun that is still used for self protection and target shooting in the US today. Although they have a certain interest amongst collectors, they are not very expensive because so many were made.

According to recent news reports, the man arrested in Switzerland has been tied to gun used in the shooting, not to the shooting itself. This is interesting since it has not been reported that the weapon involved was ever found.

It is my understanding that gun laws in Switzerland are similar to that of the US and gun ownership is very common. Hand guns can be legally purchased (registration is required) and many guns issued to Army Reservist find their way into circulation. I can not tell if firearm transfers between individuals are also registered. France, on the other hand, has very restrictive gun laws. Since there is basically no border controls between the countries, there is believed to be an active market in the rural areas of France for guns smuggled in from Switzerland.

It is possible that guns that are used in crimes can be traced back to legal purchasers as they can be in the US. If a gun used in a crime in France were traced back to a legal purchaser in Switzerland, that legal purchaser might find himself in a great deal of trouble and he might feel compelled to cooperate with the authorities.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-murdered-Alps-questioned-French-police.html

Brother of British engineer murdered with wife and her mother in Alps is questioned by French police

The brother of a British engineer murdered in the Alps alongside two members of his family has been questioned by French police for the first time, it emerged today.

The French wanted to question Zaid over claims that he tried to use an expired credit card to withdrew cash from the Geneva account shortly before the killings.



bbm
 
So slow this investigation. Seven months to 'find' the DNA seems extreme. However, reading between the lines, the French police seem to still suspect the brother and the two little girls have only limited contact with their natural family. I so hope they clear this up as if the family are innocent the children should be with them rather than with social services.
 
Was this a family killing, a random killing or some kind of a spook (spy/espionage)killing? This can be sorted out if key details can be established.

Was the al-Hilli family was just doing normal family touring at the site of the shooting or were they at that site for some sort of pre-arranged meeting? I would think that the older daughter 's description of the family's activities that week would pretty much settle that issue.

A second issue that should be settled is if and when British cyclist Brett Martin was passed by the al-Hilli family BMW on his way up the hill. If he was, but the mystery Motorcyclist did not, that would give some indication of long the cyclist arrive ahead of the Al-Hilli family.

If the killer was from the brother's family (or a hit-man) I can't see how he would have know where they would be except by following them and waiting until they were at an appropriate spot (such as an isolated turn off deep in the forest). The motorcyclist was ahead of the family and apparently waiting for them. The only way this could work (if the brother is involved) is if the shooter was familiar with the family's activities and anticipated that they would drive up that particular road and stop at that particular turn-off. He would then pass the family's BMW and arrive at the turn-off ahead of them. You would expect the killer, following the family on a motorcycle, to stay behind them, wait for them to stop at an appropriate spot and then pull in to that same spot and kill them.

Something that really interests me is the gun. As it is commonly owned by people in the region, it's use suggests that either the shooter is a local OR the shooter is sophisticated enough to know the type of weapon that would create the impression that the shooter was a local.
 
joe jones said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...omes-seven-months-murdered-mystery-gunman.htm

DNA found on spent cartridges at crime scene, could be the killers
Click to expand...

Interesting that this article states there was at least one gunman, not a sole crazed gunman, or a hitman. Of course, it's the Daily Mail, but has there been a multiple shooters theory before?

Which ties into my question, and again I'm sorry if this has been answered here and I just missed it, but: how many bullets can you fire on the type of Luger that was (allegedly) used, before you have to stop and reload? And how quickly does that gun fire off?

Thx. This is a fascinating case. As someone else said... it's straight out of John Le Carre.
 
The mind boggles. They closed the scene to the point that for many hours they didn't find a child who was alive, presumably to prevent any chance of contamination?
Yet somehow still managed to contaminate the scence?
:banghead:
 
Apparently a documentary was shown on British TV on Thursday evening. It includes interviews with the hiker who bumped into Brett Martin at the crime scene, an interview with a Swiss investigator into the Swiss bank account probe and the al Hilli's next door neighbour.

Here is an article that mentions the show.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/10093647/Alps-murders-prosecutors-reveal-fresh-details-of-inheritance-war.html

The hiker, Mr Bossy also tells how he was alerted to the killing by another passer-by, British cyclist Brett Martin. As the two men surveyed the scene, Mr Bossy drew a link between Mr Martin's British accent and the British number plates on Mr Hilli's car, and began to mistakenly worry that Mr Martin might in fact be the killer. Panicking for his own safety, he even tried to punch him at one point, but Mr Martin was able to convince him that he was mistaken.
Click to expand...

I searched on YouTube and found what I believe is the documentary. You night want to check it out before it disappears, since I'm guessing the poster doesn't have rights to the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKfYjjBK3A4
 
I watched the documentary that promised would go behind the headlines. It didn't.
There wasn't anything in it that I hadn't read previously, which was no surprise.

No mention of Mollier's nuclear background and still no pics of him. Nothing to see here, move on.

Spy game.
 
jellybeanz said:
I watched the documentary that promised would go behind the headlines. It didn't.
There wasn't anything in it that I hadn't read previously, which was no surprise.

No mention of Mollier's nuclear background and still no pics of him. Nothing to see here, move on.

Spy game.
Click to expand...

I have to say that I enjoyed watching Maillaud launch his over-the-top-defense of Mollier and his family.....saying that the investigators are not interested in make-believe and that all discussion of their possible involvement should simply stop. Yup, don't look over here!

He doth protest too much? (I'm not saying they are involved, but it sure seems like there is a lot of politics going on behind the scenes related to shutting down all discussion and publicity relating to Mollier (and his "in-laws"?)
 
I did learn that Sylvain Mollier, the French cyclist had a baby on the way. He was told to take that road by his girlfriend's father. The girlfriend is an heir to a pharma fortune. Maybe someone did not want him to be around.... I think he was the target. The family in the car was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
colette said:
I did learn that Sylvain Mollier, the French cyclist had a baby on the way. He was told to take that road by his girlfriend's father. The girlfriend is an heir to a pharma fortune. Maybe someone did not want him to be around.... I think he was the target. The family in the car was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Click to expand...

That came out some time ago about the pregnant girlfriend being a heir to a, wasn't it a pharmacy store. Once I heard that it made more sense that the cyclist was the target. I hadn't heard that the father suggested the road. And the French police are still not looking there.
 
SophieRose said:
That came out some time ago about the pregnant girlfriend being a heir to a, wasn't it a pharmacy store. Once I heard that it made more sense that the cyclist was the target. I hadn't heard that the father suggested the road. And the French police are still not looking there.
Click to expand...

It was in that British Documentary, from Youtube on Snoopster's post above.
 
SophieRose said:
That came out some time ago about the pregnant girlfriend being a heir to a, wasn't it a pharmacy store. Once I heard that it made more sense that the cyclist was the target. I hadn't heard that the father suggested the road. And the French police are still not looking there.
Click to expand...

I just watched the video. It seems the g/f's dad, or was it his wife and FIL? Anyway, the person who told the cyclist to take that route, said he told him to take a different road and he must have taken a wrong turn.

Yeah, right! :slap:

Seems everyone is saying, not here! One guy even tried to blame the U.S. or Israel! :slap: :slap:

Nope! NO ONE wants to believe the crime was generated on their turf!

JMHO
fran
 
fran said:
I just watched the video. It seems the g/f's dad, or was it his wife and FIL? Anyway, the person who told the cyclist to take that route, said he told him to take a different road and he must have taken a wrong turn.

Yeah, right! :slap:

Seems everyone is saying, not here! One guy even tried to blame the U.S. or Israel! :slap: :slap:

Nope! NO ONE wants to believe the crime was generated on their turf!

JMHO
fran
Click to expand...

Mollier was also shot first and shot seven times while the others IIRC were shot three times. But he wasn't the target.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/National/article1177548.ece
 
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