France, Dominique Pélicot, drugged wife of 50 years nightly, filmed rape by at least 51 men, 2011-2020

[Charlot123]

"Without her knowledge", exactly the point. Swingers would know that you always get consent.

I talk ad infinitum with youth about sex and consent. They are responsible to check for themselves. Whatever consenting adults agree to is not my business. The degenerate action revolves around not obtaining consent and raping this woman. To this point, a defendant said this, according to the DM, "Sotton admitted to the court that the husband, Pelicot, could not give consent to sex on his wife behalf and that an unconscious person cannot give consent.
The defendant said he only learned about Pelicot following his arrest in April 2021 and wrote a letter of apology to Madame Pelicot." Monster of Avignon 'accomplice' makes grovelling courtroom apology

I still believe they are monsters who by having sex with a snoring/sleeping woman had to know that they did not have consent. If they feel that her husband could consent, they are wrong and still rapists (allegedly, until found guilty). No excuses. JMHO.

I am thinking if the time has come to change copyright laws. Talking to youth is necessary but almost hopeless because consent to sex or, say, exchange of certain material (“nudes”) between two people usually does not include future distribution of this material (e.g. the addressee sending nudes to all his friends), much less posting things online. I know that it sounds naive, given that copyright laws are constantly broken by “pirate copies” of TM movies.

However, from the legal standpoint, Mr. Pelicot’s case, horrible as it is, stems from the mere existence of “without her knowledge” subforum. By default, even before Mr. Pelicot, the creation of such a subforum implied violation of several laws related to unconsented filming and then, distribution. IANAL, but it would appear that online advices on drugging a person, within the framework of a forum, is a major violation, too? The owners of the host site can be sued by Mme Pelicot. And should be. I believe her story, and she may still experience the sequela of daily sedation, IMO. However, at least her family could get some material compensation, and set the precedent.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1839576410198831105

"Louis Bonnet last night announced
he was 'leaving public life'
and would stop representing Mazan in the rolling hills of Provence
by November 11 'at the latest'.

Bonnet is now under the protection of police officers in the south of France,
at an unknown address
far away from Mazan,
where he was elected Mayor in 2020.

‘I've been threatened,
I've been insulted',
he said on Friday.

Bonnet said he had also been receiving threats on social media, and by phone,
since speaking to the BBC early this month."

 

[LadyL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1839576410198831105

"Louis Bonnet last night announced
he was 'leaving public life'
and would stop representing Mazan in the rolling hills of Provence
by November 11 'at the latest'.

Bonnet is now under the protection of police officers in the south of France,
at an unknown address
far away from Mazan,
where he was elected Mayor in 2020.

‘I've been threatened,
I've been insulted',
he said on Friday.

Bonnet said he had also been receiving threats on social media, and by phone,
since speaking to the BBC early this month."

I think he has made a wise choice to go into hiding and leave public life. When he's retired, he'll have lots of time to think about how inappropriate and offensive his comments were.

 

[stonedgnome]

‘I've been threatened,
I've been insulted',
he said on Friday.

Now imagine being Gisele and what she has been going through. *eyeroll*

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I don't forget. It makes me wonder, if they'd attack a perfect stranger this way, what are they like to their families. People don't commit something like rape in isolation.

MOO

Agree. This ability to dehumanize others is not something one turns on and off I would not think.

 

[iamshadow21]

Agree. This ability to dehumanize others is not something one turns on and off I would not think.

Agreed. Some mask very well around friends and family, but they don't actually change who they are inside. Most consider their predatory self their true self, and have no desire to be different.

MOO

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1839576410198831105

"Louis Bonnet last night announced
he was 'leaving public life'
and would stop representing Mazan in the rolling hills of Provence
by November 11 'at the latest'.

Bonnet is now under the protection of police officers in the south of France,
at an unknown address
far away from Mazan,
where he was elected Mayor in 2020.

‘I've been threatened,
I've been insulted',
he said on Friday.

Bonnet said he had also been receiving threats on social media, and by phone,
since speaking to the BBC early this month."

I think treating the men and mayor as extreme outliers may be a mistake. These ways of thinking and viewing women are perhaps more widespread than anyone wants to acknowledge. That so many engaged in this behavior and have spoken of it as acceptable is a clue, as is the fact that so many are husbands, fathers, integrated into the community. And p*rn is a huge driver IMOOO.

 

[Dotta]

I think treating the men and mayor as extreme outliers may be a mistake. These ways of thinking and viewing women are perhaps more widespread than anyone wants to acknowledge. That so many engaged in this behavior and have spoken of it as acceptable is a clue, as is the fact that so many are husbands, fathers, integrated into the community. And p*rn is a huge driver IMOOO.

Let's not forget that women were allowed to vote only at the beginning of 20 th century.

And, mind you,
It was only after
World War I that times significantly changed
as far as the legal, social and professional situation of women.
(I mean situation in Europe, as I live here)

Before,
women remained under the legal guardianship of men (father, husband, brothers, relatives).

We owe our present rights to the brave women in suffrage movement,
which was part of the first wave of feminism.

This post is apropos
time changes versus stubborn mentality.

JMO

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Let's not forget that women were allowed to vote only at the beginning of 20 th century.

And, mind you,
It was only after
World War I that times significantly changed
as far as the legal, social and professional situation of women.
(I mean situation in Europe, as I live here)

Before,
women remained under the legal guardianship of men (father, husband, brothers, relatives).

We owe our present rights to the brave women in suffrage movement,
which was part of the first wave of feminism.

This post is apropos
time changes versus stubborn mentality.

JMO

Women could only have credit cards in own name in what, the 70's?

 

[Inthedetails]

Women could only have credit cards in own name in what, the 70's?

In USA, that is true. I remember when my mom got her first credit card. 1970s!!

jmo

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1840756101093982242

 

[atomicsciencegal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1840756101093982242

I’m so eternally proud of Giselle. Every time we see a new photo of her she looks even stronger and happier.

 

[Inthedetails]

I’m so eternally proud of Giselle. Every time we see a new photo of her she looks even stronger and happier.

Yes, look at the power of being surrounded by people wanting the best for you instead of a group around you doing the worst.

jmo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It's a change from the victim being the one shamed or sharing the blame.

Times seem to be changing at long last. Hopefully.

 

[Inthedetails]

It's a change from the victim being the one shamed or sharing the blame.

Times seem to be changing at long last. Hopefully.

I agree. I think this case hits hard because the victim of the abuse and cruelty is probably someone most of us here can relate to. She is a wife and mother living a comfortable life that is likely familiar to our own. It's horrible how she was treated against her will and I do not discount the vileness of the crimes, but I'm also remembering people who are abused by multiple perps and who live in places or in situations where they cannot seek justice.

But progress is progress is I'm grateful for it.

jmo

 

[Dotta]

"Mass rape trial ​

revives question of consent within French law.​

Legal experts say
the case exposes the need to revise the French penal code
to place consent at the heart of what constitutes a sex crime.

'This is not American law.
In France,
you don't need to have obtained the victim's consent necessarily to ensure that it's not rape',
Guillaume de Palma,
who represents several of the defendants,
told reporters last week.

Law out of date?

However objectionable that might sound,
legal experts point out that France's current laws leave room for such arguments.

The notion of consent is not included in the legal definition of rape,
explains Nathalie Tomasini,
a lawyer who specialises in representing victims of domestic violence.

Instead,
the criminal code defines rape as a sex act committed
'by violence, coercion, threat or surprise'.

In this case, the defendants may claim that they did not use any such measures.

Some seem to believe that Dominique Pélicot's invitation gave them permission –
'as if this woman was nothing but an inflatable doll, who had no right to say whether she consented or not',
Tomasini said.

She counters that Gisèle Pélicot was under chemical constraint,
having been given powerful medication,
and that her state of unconsciousness means she was subjected to surprise."

Mass rape trial revives question of consent within French law

The trial of dozens of men accused of raping a woman while she was drugged into unconsciousness by her husband has provoked horror in France. Beyond outrage, legal experts say the case exposes the need…

www.rfi.fr