France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
I read somewhere that the trip was taken last minute and Al Hilli was rushing round doing last minute things and hadnt told certain people he was going away. He must have had business interests in France but why take the whole family, a bit odd.
 
webnut said:
I read somewhere that the trip was taken last minute and Al Hilli was rushing round doing last minute things and hadnt told certain people he was going away. He must have had business interests in France but why take the whole family, a bit odd.
Click to expand...

It does seem strange. Many families do take their children out of school for holidays as it is so much cheaper to holiday in term time but Camping in France is one of those things that I wouldn't have thought would be much cheaper in term time so doesn't seem like this woud be the reason.

I suppose a legitimate reason may be that the family had a busy summer and hadn't managed to get away so thought they'd holiday now before the youngest daughter started in reception (for those who aren't familiar with England, reception is the first year in school and they quite often start a few days later than the rest of the school.) Does anyone know when the family were planning on arriving home? I would be interested to know if that tallied with when the youngest was due to start school. Although many families would miss the first day bad of the school term, I don't think they would if it was the child's first day at school ever.

I'm also reading several reports now that hint that the elderly Swedish lady is not the grandmother. This could be media speculation though based on the little bit that the police have released about what the youngest child has said. Actually I've just reread the post above - it sounds really like the child doesn't know this woman.

On a different note entirely, I have read something interesting about the French cyclist's job. This wasn't on a news report so not sure I can post it here but what I read might make me think that there is a possibility that the family were in the wrong place at the wrong time and perhaps the cyclist may have been the hitman's target.
 
Yes, reception week starts this coming week at Claygate. Zaina, however, was scheduled to start classes on 05 September.
 
wfgodot said:
Yes, reception week starts this coming week at Claygate. Zaina, however, was scheduled to start classes on 05 September.
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry. I don't think I was very clear. Although I don't think it is strange to take some time off for a holiday in term time, it does seem strange in this case when that holiday is camping in France as prices don't really fluctuate that much and I'd have thought that would be the main reason people would do it.

But, depending on when they planned on returning I would hAve found it very strange wherever that holiday was if it meant missing the first day of school for a child just starting reception (or first day of juniors/middle or secondary for that matter).
 
laurauk1 said:
Yes, sorry. I don't think I was very clear. Although I don't think it is strange to take some time off for a holiday in term time, it does seem strange in this case when that holiday is camping in France as prices don't really fluctuate that much and I'd have thought that would be the main reason people would do it.

But, depending on when they planned on returning I would hAve found it very strange wherever that holiday was if it meant missing the first day of school for a child just starting reception (or first day of juniors/middle or secondary for that matter).
Click to expand...
They just don't seem like the kind of people who would allow holiday to interfere with their girls' schooling. Unless perhaps there was a reason for the timing.
 
I mentioned earlier the murders of the chemist Sir Jack Drummond, his wife, and daughter, in France almost 60 years to the day before the current massacre - an interesting case, still unsolved (at least to many). Here's a BBC link with video about the case, with a lengthy video of the BBC presentation:

Boots chemist Sir Jack Drummond's death still a mystery
It was France's crime of the 20th Century and to this day the conspiracy theories are abundant.
Click to expand...
 
If the "target" was the cyclist, I'm not sure why the police would be forensically searching the family home in Claygate.....

Officers placed a tent in the driveway of the house in Claygate, and also took evidence gathering material, including boxes and bags, into the property as well as photographing the exterior.

One forensics officer took various pieces of equipment into the property, including an angle grinder which could be used to access locked cupboards or a safe
Click to expand...

Mr Maillaud said police plan to look at all aspects of Mr al Hilli's life as they try to establish why the family may have been targeted.
Click to expand...

From http://news.sky.com/story/982481/alps-shootings-police-find-two-phones-in-car
 
Dead cyclist named by French press


Le Messager reports that the name of the dead cyclist, according to its information, is Sylvain Mollier, from Ugine, approximately 16km from Chevaline. It says he worked in metallurgy for Cezus, a metal manufacturing company.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shooting-live

The french media has more information on Sylvain Mollier, however the British media says very little. (Perhaps they are sensitive to the fact that this victim works for a company that supplies the nuclear industry?) The Ugine location of Cezus processes zirconium, which the company supplies to the nuclear industry. Keep in mind that CERN isn't very far away....just across the border in Switzerland.

This means that we had a mechanical engineer, who worked in the aeronautics and satellite industries, someone employed by a supplier of key metals to the nuclear industry and a member of the RAF, all up that lonely little track at the same time, late in the afternoon.


Of course, this likely has absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy and I have probably been reading too many spy novels! :crazy:

Having said all of that, I don't want to make light of Msr Mollier's death. He is apparently a father of three, including a baby born just in June. :( His family and friends must be absolutely devastated.
 
Snoopster said:
franceMAIN_2331185b.jpg


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9527148/France-shooting-There-was-noise-I-was-scared-said-girl-who-hid-from-killers.html
Click to expand...

I don't see anywhere in this picture of residue from LE taking any cast of any tire or foot prints. The opposite...LE is walking all over the place. It is clear the driver's side window was up, and a bullet hole exited that vehicle. Which means the shooter was on the passenger side...Did they not check for foot prints before they contaminated the crime scene. MOO
 
Lera213 said:
I don't see anywhere in this picture of residue from LE taking any cast of any tire or foot prints. The opposite...LE is walking all over the place. It is clear the driver's side window was up, and a bullet hole exited that vehicle. Which means the shooter was on the passenger side...Did they not check for foot prints before they contaminated the crime scene. MOO
Click to expand...

Just a reminder that the driver's side is on the right hand side of the vehicle. Your point still stands that the window is up.

I am not familiar with what the residue from casts would look like. Could you please describe what we would expect to see. Thanks!

I wonder when this photo was taken. Clearly it must have been taken well after the crime since the victims have been removed and we know they didn't remove the victims the day of the murder.

As an aside, the reports indicate that the deceased cyclist was found on the far side of the vehicle (from the direction in which the discovering cyclist arrived) which would mean that there would likely be his footprints on the far side (i.e. driver's side) of the vehicle as well as his blood. I also read that his bike had been 'tossed into the far corner of the pull-in.
 
Mr Hilli, 50, had decided on a “spur of the moment” caravan holiday in France because he was suffering from a bad back and had taken two weeks off his work as a freelance engineer, designing aircraft interiors and satellite components. The family had left their home in Claygate, Surrey, last week, and arrived at the Solitaire du Lac campsite on the shore of Lake Annecy on Monday, intending to return home this weekend ready for the start of term at the girls’ school, Claygate Primary.
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9527148/France-shooting-There-was-noise-I-was-scared-said-girl-who-hid-from-killers.html

This mentions the timing of the trip versus the timing of the school term.

Also, it mentions that this was a spur of the moment decision to go on the trip. This supports the idea that he was possibly fearful and that is why they left.

I am curious though, as to why someone with a bad back would undertake a long car trip through France and then would head up a trail to a spot which ends where paths begin that are popular with hikers and moutain bikers.

It has been reported that the family was in 'city clothes'. I am not sure this is significant, since families from some cultures dress somewhat formally at all times, particularly when they are travelling. Was Mr. al-Hilli ever the type to wear casual clothes? Did his wife always wear skirts?

One final point that I've been thinking about was the reference to the fact that they had their suitcases in the vehicle. Perhaps they felt uncomfortable leaving their personal belongings back at the campsite, where they wouldn't be that secure?
 
Im still on the fence with a lot of this.

What if the cyclist was the target?,
Family reverse into parking spot and park,as cyclist gets level with car the shooter/s appear and attack,cyclist may then have headed towards the car for safety/cover,father starts car in panick(its still in reverse gear)and car reverses up bank.cyclist gets shot and shooters panick and shoot family,could explain why they didnt get the young girl(because if family was target they would have known the number of individuals and would have looked for her to shoot)..

A thought i had as to why the older girl was out of the vehicle when this happened was what if she was out of the car to P(urinate)?,shes certainly old enough to nip behind the bushes on her own.It would also explain why car was in layby.

Im not sure of the quick u-turn theory because when looking at the aerial pic i cant see tyre marks in an arch like pattern of a vehicle reversing at speed in ,surely that would have disturbed the gravel leaving a darker looking mark?.
 
I've been thinking about that awhile as well ScotsPaddy. That type of theory is almost starting to make more sense to me than the family being targeted, while on vacation with the children with them you know? How terrible it will be, if it's a matter of them being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's terrible no matter what the cause is, but it seems especially tragic if that's the case. I can also see how a hitman/men would be completely panicked if you had one target and you ended up killing a family with children (you think).
 
I don't believe the cyclist was the target, if he has been, they could have just driven past him and shot him, or even just run him over.
 
I just can't wrap my head around a hit man killing a family of five when he was contracted to take out one lone man. I don't think it would happen that way. JMO
 
There are bullet holes in the window where the girl was sitting also. I don't think she was out of the car but got lucky that the shooter got interrupted by the cyclist. Maybe even more lucky when the shooter ran out of bullets.

I hope the French will pull through and get to the truth. I have less faith in the British. Especially when it turns out this was a assassination for political reasons. We might never hear the whole truth. JMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 152 more.
Total: 1,872 (members: 153, guests: 1,719)

Online statistics

Members online
153
Guests online
1,719
Total visitors
1,872
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,662
Messages
18,190,547
Members
233,489
Latest member
Shayput1996
Back
Top