France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[Zuckerschnecke]

I'm leaning toward this being related maybe somewhat to the brother but more with his line of work. Like he had some secret he was going to sell but the ended up killing him for it. The fact that his brother was replaced in his company makes me wonder. Was he about to make a bunch of money on something that someone else wanted to cash out on.

How come we aren't hearing anymore about the family they were also supposedly camping with.....all of a sudden, nothing is mentioned about them.

 

[Waddles]

Doesn't it seem that the killer did not want to kill the little girl, only keep her from running for help? He shot her in the shoulder, not twice in the head and maybe, initially attempted to stop her by hitting her in the head. If the family was the target because of personal family finance discord, wouldn't the 2 girls that would inherit have been accounted for and killed in the same way?

French press say she was badly beaten around the head. They speculate the killer may have run out of bullets...

 

[stunned again]

I have felt from the beginning that they had made a pit stop for the older daughter and thats when they were attacked and why whe was out of the car.
Do we know for sure the Mother wore a Burka? I had not heard this before, explains the hidden daughter much easier.

 

[jjenny]

French press say she was badly beaten around the head. They speculate the killer may have run out of bullets...

She had life threatening injuries and had to have surgeries and was put into a medically induced coma. Sure doesn't sound like someone wanting to leave a child alive to me. And what relative did they give the little 4 year old to?

 

[katydid23]

I have felt from the beginning that they had made a pit stop for the older daughter and thats when they were attacked and why whe was out of the car.
Do we know for sure the Mother wore a Burka? I had not heard this before, explains the hidden daughter much easier.

I wondered about the pit stop too. Since they said the girl gets car sick maybe she needed to step out of the car for fresh air.

No one said she was wearing a burka, but they said the girl was hidden in the mothers skirt and she was not seen for several hours, so I am going to guess she was wearing something similar.

 

[ConfusedPopsicle]

Or this scenario:
Maybe he's not so good at shooting a moving target, so he missed, hitting her in the shoulder with his last bullet. (He had to use extra on the unexpected bike rider) Then he tried to beat her to death but had to get out of there when he heard another adult riding up the road.

That's what I was thinking, hitting a little girl that's running is much harder than people that are sitting ducks in a vehicle. They have said she was beaten very badly, so I guess they thought she was dead when they left or like you said had to leave quickly. Bouncing off of your post there's something that's been bothering me. There were reports of people hearing gunshots, something like "30 seconds of fury" I think it said. Why would the cyclist continue on toward that scene? I think he had to have been there or arriving as the shooting started. So why did the killer/s have to do this right then? With the family as the target, why not wait a few seconds for the cyclist to pass? And obviously if the cyclist were the target, why kill him with an entire family parked there?

 

[Waddles]

She had life threatening injuries and had to have surgeries and was put into a medically induced coma. Sure doesn't sound like someone wanting to leave a child alive to me. And what relative did they give the little 4 year old to?

Yeah, it's absolutely horrible how she was beaten.

It does sound surprising about handing her to family considering the circumstances but it could be the wife's family or something they were sure had nothing to do with the inheritance dispute- I heard it's another brother or sister and their spouse. Their names or hints to their identity not being released for their safety. Surely they would not have handed the child over without being very sure.

 

[Waddles]

That's what I was thinking, hitting a little girl that's running is much harder than people that are sitting ducks in a vehicle. They have said she was beaten very badly, so I guess they thought she was dead when they left or like you said had to leave quickly. Bouncing off of your post there's something that's been bothering me. There were reports of people hearing gunshots, something like "30 seconds of fury" I think it said. Why would the cyclist continue on toward that scene? I think he had to have been there or arriving as the shooting started. So why did the killer/s have to do this right then? With the family as the target, why not wait a few seconds for the cyclist to pass? And obviously if the cyclist were the target, why kill him with an entire family parked there?

Very true, all these questions went through my mind too. It's all so strange. The RAF cyclist said he had just been passed by the other cyclist too so he must have arrived very soon after the murders. Press says first cyclist overtook second cyclist "a few moments before"

 

[katydid23]

Very true, all these questions went through my mind too. It's all so strange. The RAF cyclist said he had just been passed by the other cyclist too so he must have arrived very soon after the murders

My brother is a cyclist. He rides on backroads and biketrails for miles and miles. But he is in ' the zone' as he calls it so he is sometimes oblivious to what is happening around him.

One time he rode right up within feet of a mountain lion feeding from a deer carcass. He hadn't even noticed until he was right up to it. Needless to say he backed away very carefully.

So I wonder if the cyclist just rode right into it obliviously.

 

[laurauk1]

French papers state that they are looking into this possibility also and not ruling it out. However, they all seem to focus on the discord between the brothers as the main line of investigation.

Unfortunately I think it's convenient for the focus to be on the feud between the brothers. I'm not sure we'll ever know what has really happened if it is political in anyway.

 

[stunned again]

#238 mentioned Mothers Burka. But I still have not seen another source for this. And it makes no difference it saved a little girls life.

 

[kiwi50]

I'm leaning toward this being related maybe somewhat to the brother but more with his line of work. Like he had some secret he was going to sell but the ended up killing him for it. The fact that his brother was replaced in his company makes me wonder. Was he about to make a bunch of money on something that someone else wanted to cash out on.

How come we aren't hearing anymore about the family they were also supposedly camping with.....all of a sudden, nothing is mentioned about them.

Were they actually "with" another family or simply parked next to them at the camp?

I believe the killer did want the entire family killed. Would love to know exactly what the father was worth.
Does anyone know if the wife's father is alive, I haven't seen any mention of him.
One would assume that if the entire family were killed, apart from wife's mother, that the wife's mother would have inherited their estate.

I'm sure the cellphones will provide a wealth of information if this was a planned meeting, but I lean towards the car being bugged, would be so easy to lie in wait for them knowing they were on a quiet very narrow road.

One thing that confuses me, has there been any mention of the family's car passing the cyclist or was it coming from the opposite direction.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

It was reported on the news that the girl went in between her mums legs/up her mums dress as soon as things started happening.
If it was a burkha i think the go to the floor so it would easily hide a 4 yr old.

 

[Saturn]

Unsure how respectable Le Figaro is, but there seems to be a bit more here that has not been in the English tabloids.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...27-tuerie-de-haute-savoie-lalongue-traque.php

If you use google translate, you can translate the whole page by putting the link in the box - it's a bit hit and miss, but gives you the gist.

One word it won't translate is frappadingue - french dictionaries say this is slang, and there is no english equivalent - but am guessing "gun toting madman". Perhaps someone here has a much better knowledge of the language than my schoolday french from 30+ years ago.

 

[Waddles]

Unsure how respectable Le Figaro is, but there seems to be a bit more here that has not been in the English tabloids.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fr...27-tuerie-de-haute-savoie-lalongue-traque.php

If you use google translate, you can translate the whole page by putting the link in the box - it's a bit hit and miss, but gives you the gist.

One word it won't translate is frappadingue - french dictionaries say this is slang, and there is no english equivalent - but am guessing "gun toting madman". Perhaps someone here has a much better knowledge of the language than my schoolday french from 30+ years ago.

It's considered a serious paper like le monde, only with opposite political leanings just for info

 

[Waddles]

Annecy prosecutor Eric Maillaud has now confirmed that Zeena ‘is back in Britain’. He said that she had returned with an ‘aunt and uncle’, believed to be on her late mother Ikbal’s side of the family.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...kirt-hours-returns-Britain.html#ixzz260eqaZVF

 

[Saturn]

Perhaps Granny lives in Sweden, which would mean the 4 year old would not see her that often.

Maybe she flew to meet them in France? Although the fact this was stated as being a spur of the moment trip.

It should be quite easy to find out, either from ferry terminals or airport records.

The relatives that collected Zeena, may have been from the "other side" of the family, so not able to identify her 100%.

 

[kiwi50]

Perhaps Granny lives in Sweden, which would mean the 4 year old would not see her that often.

Maybe she flew to meet them in France? Although the fact this was stated as being a spur of the moment trip.

It should be quite easy to find out, either from ferry terminals or airport records.

The relatives that collected Zeena, may have been from the "other side" of the family, so not able to identify her 100%.

I thought I read that grandmother was picked up from Reading, wasn't there another daughter studying in London, perhaps she was visiting her or did she live in UK.
It's quite frustrating how little we are being told.

 

[wfgodot]

Alps shootings: how French press buried the story (Guardian)
Murder of British family and French cyclist seen by Gallic press
as small story despite hitting front pages in UK newspapers

 

[rotterdam]

No burqa but no shorts and flip flops either.
"All five people in the car – Mr al-Hilli, 50, his wife, Iqbal, 47, an elderly woman who may have been her mother, and the little girls, Zainab, seven, and Zeena, four, were dressed in what French investigators describe as "smart town clothes".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-massacre-in-the-alps-8120164.html

I also remember reading that the Al-Hillis were very westernized and Mrs Al-Hilli wore generally long skirts and had here arms covered. So she looked like plenty other non Muslim married women who would not want to be caught dead (no pun intended) in short shorts/mini skirts with T-tops.