France - Mother & four children slain, buried in Nantes garden, 5 April 2011

[wfgodot]

Ya know... I don't think I've ever read anything related to List and an actual church that he attended. I recall the Lutheran affiliation, but have never read about his pastor (or whatever Luthers call them) or anyone from his church. No report and no quotes.

You guys seen anything?

Yup, we call 'em pastors. Never have read anything that I can recall.

 

[Wagara]

Ya know... I don't think I've ever read anything related to List and an actual church that he attended. I recall the Lutheran affiliation, but have never read about his pastor (or whatever Luthers call them) or anyone from his church. No report and no quotes.

You guys seen anything?

According to this List not only attended church but taught Sunday School. I thought I had read about a pastor being involved in the matter. He even wrote a letter of confession for the pastor.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/list/7.html

 

[wfgodot]

Not much new in this Telegraph short article

French murder hunt 'mistress' talks

Of the unnamed mistress mentioned in my link above:

"She is now in fear of her life and has left her home to stay with friends."

 

[Missizzy]

The entire thing is a tragedy--such lovely, vibrant children. We have to remember that the Mail and Telegraph are not always the best at reporting details. It's entirely possible that the mother somewhat went along with the idea of picking up and moving to Australia, though. I'm curious as to the tuition to the school. Was it a retrospective or prospective payment?

I'm also very curious about the killing of the family pets. If this is a religious "mania", I'm doubtful that the man felt the dogs would follow the family to heaven. Possibly, but that isn't central to Catholic dogma, is it? He might have killed them as he pitied them going on without their beloved people (but did this man have pity?). I also wonder if he killed them for purely practical reasons and possibly first....because they might bark?

 

[Shlock Homes]

These weren't little kids he killed, a couple of them were adults, so it's hard to imagine one guy was able to kill all of them without one of them hearing something and trying to escape. I guess the police aren't going to talk about the murder scene until later? I mean, did it look like there was a struggle?

I'm thinking this was some kind of a hit, that other people were involved. The one comment in an article struck me:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3542631/Father-hunted-after-killing-family-and-burying-them-in-the-garden.html

Local prosecutor Xavier Ronsin confirmed: "Friends said the father claimed to be a secret agent who was leaving as part of a witness protection programme."

He may have been a secret agent, or he may have been working undercover for some time, then his family's cover was blown. Clearly something had happened that required them to move away suddenly. They may not have even been going to Australia, that was just a decoy.

I'm astonished he was able to bury all those bodies without anyone seeing or hearing anything. Again not little kids, most of them were full sized adults. If this was a crime of passion, he wouldn't have bothered killing them. Perhaps someone else intended to make it look like the father and family had indeed left, but the bodies were found too soon.

Edit: Okay, I found an article below that says the family was shot while in their beds. It's still hard to believe that someone didn't scream out. Also interesting is that three cars were gone.

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Crime/Story/A1Story20110423-275147.html

 

[Shlock Homes]

I'm also very curious about the killing of the family pets. If this is a religious "mania", I'm doubtful that the man felt the dogs would follow the family to heaven. Possibly, but that isn't central to Catholic dogma, is it? He might have killed them as he pitied them going on without their beloved people (but did this man have pity?). I also wonder if he killed them for purely practical reasons and possibly first....because they might bark?

If he really did commit the murders, I think the intent was to make it look like they had left on the trip. It wouldn't have made sense to leave the dogs alive, they would either starve to death or make noise to alert someone that something was wrong. Whoever did the murders wanted to make sure it looked like they had all left. I wonder if the crime scene was cleaned up? This guy seemed to have plenty of time to kill and conceal the bodies without anyone seeing. Not an easy task for one person.

 

[wfgodot]

Short video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl1TyGvkZH0[/ame]

 

[wfgodot]

An interesting thing or two from an article in today's Irish Independent online. (The writer is reminded of Ireland's Monageer tragedy in Co. Wexford in 2007.)

And it has been revealed that a few days before the family disappeared, Agnès confided to a nun: "pray for me, I'm going to need it".
---
Why did this horrible drama occur? The family is described by neighbours as "very discreet" and "ordinary". A childhood friend of Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes told Le Parisien of his fears that the father, from an ultra-strict Catholic background, may have been gripped by a "mystic frenzy".

However, case inspectors have rubbished this theory -- the murders seem to have been too meticulously prepared -- notably, even the lease on the house had been terminated.

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...-missing-dad-and-murdered-family-2628267.html

 

[tapu]

According to this List not only attended church but taught Sunday School. I thought I had read about a pastor being involved in the matter. He even wrote a letter of confession for the pastor.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/list/7.html

Ah! As soon as I read that it all came back. Yes, of course that is all true. (Gee, I used to have a really sharp mind; what the hell happened to me?)

Thanks for the info! the tapu

 

[mysteriew]

These weren't little kids he killed, a couple of them were adults, so it's hard to imagine one guy was able to kill all of them without one of them hearing something and trying to escape. I guess the police aren't going to talk about the murder scene until later? I mean, did it look like there was a struggle?

I'm thinking this was some kind of a hit, that other people were involved. The one comment in an article struck me:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3542631/Father-hunted-after-killing-family-and-burying-them-in-the-garden.html

Local prosecutor Xavier Ronsin confirmed: "Friends said the father claimed to be a secret agent who was leaving as part of a witness protection programme."

He may have been a secret agent, or he may have been working undercover for some time, then his family's cover was blown. Clearly something had happened that required them to move away suddenly. They may not have even been going to Australia, that was just a decoy.

I'm astonished he was able to bury all those bodies without anyone seeing or hearing anything. Again not little kids, most of them were full sized adults. If this was a crime of passion, he wouldn't have bothered killing them. Perhaps someone else intended to make it look like the father and family had indeed left, but the bodies were found too soon.

Edit: Okay, I found an article below that says the family was shot while in their beds. It's still hard to believe that someone didn't scream out. Also interesting is that three cars were gone.

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Crime/Story/A1Story20110423-275147.html

This seems to be speculation only. But I have read that the police are doing toxicology to determine if they were given something to make them sleep. Also the father has been seen with a silencer for his gun.

 

[mysteriew]

If he really did commit the murders, I think the intent was to make it look like they had left on the trip. It wouldn't have made sense to leave the dogs alive, they would either starve to death or make noise to alert someone that something was wrong. Whoever did the murders wanted to make sure it looked like they had all left. I wonder if the crime scene was cleaned up? This guy seemed to have plenty of time to kill and conceal the bodies without anyone seeing. Not an easy task for one person.

Internet communication and phone calls stopped sometime around Apr. 3, yet the father was seen at a relative's home later this month. *her home was searched also.

From what I read the home showed no signs of turmoil. Linens were folded, dishes in the dishwasher. So yeah it sounds like the scene was cleaned pretty throughly. Of course they never get everything.

 

[wfgodot]

Very good summary of the case so far, nothing new here but suggested reading for those just finding this excellent thread.

Police scour Europe for man whose family were buried in the garden (The Independent)

 

[badhorsie]

France mass murder suspect's ex-lover tells police of debt

 

[mysteriew]

France mass murder suspect's ex-lover tells police of debt

Good article. OK here is my read.

He and his family are devout Catholics. He has an affair and borrowed money off the woman. Hence he went against his religion and broke his marriage vows. After a "stormy" breakup (did wife know or not?) ex gf takes legal action against him for the money he allegedly borrowed. If his wife didn't know of the affair before, she will now. Unknown about other financial issues, did he have debt problems? Likely the legal action would make family and friends know of infidelity and/or financial issues.

So broke marriage vows, against his religion and apparently facing some financial issues. That's quite a bit of pressure.

 

[wfgodot]

Daily Beast has a full article, including this about one of the case's mystery women:

---
Another woman, who lived in the southern town of Lorgues, where the Dupont de Ligonnes family lived until 2003, has meanwhile gone missing, according to authorities. Investigators scoured the area over the weekend, questioning her family and friends. But {Xavier] Ronsin, the Nantes prosecutor, said Monday that a link has not yet been established between de Ligonnes and the disappearance of Colette Deromme, a 50-year-old single mother.

"The gendarmes have been here night and day taking pictures and asking questions," Colette's father, Lucien Deromme, told The Daily Beast on Monday. "We can't take it anymore. We don't even know who this guy is. We don't remember him or his family. We're just worried sick about our daughter." When asked if his daughter knew de Ligonnes, Deromme refused to answer and abruptly ended the conversation.
---

more here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...his-family/?cid=gallerieslanding:mostrecent2#

 

[wfgodot]

From The French Paper:

Meanwhile Le Parisien quotes a friend of Thomas [the Dupont de Ligonnès’s eldest child], with whom the 18-year-old spent the day of 5 April.

‘He was smiling and joking as usual, there was nothing unusual in his behaviour,’ says the friend.

‘Then around 7pm he got a phone call that changed things,’ says the teenager, whose real name is not given.

‘It was from Thomas’ father saying that his mother had been in a bike accident and was in hospital.

‘Her life was not in danger, his father said, but he insisted that Thomas come home that night.’

After Thomas had gone home, his friend sent him a text asking him if everything was ok.

‘He replied:”I’m ill, I’m not coming back.”’

According to the teenager quoted in the newspaper neither that message not subsequent ones sounded like his friend. ‘They were too short, with no humour. Thomas wrote long texts – the impersonal tone of these was not him at all.’

More at link above.

 

[wfgodot]

Interpol issues call for info on missing Frenchman

---
Interpol has issued a so-called "blue notice" seeking information on Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes, said the prosecutor of Nantes, the city in Brittany where the execution-style murders took place.
---
The prosecutor said the "last known meal of the couple and three of their four children was in a restaurant in Nantes on the evening of April 3," and the murders probably took place that night or the next.
---

I think that last paragraph might be new info - at least, I'd missed it and was still thinking the chilling detail of the settings and silverware for six, resting clean in the dishwasher, indicated a last supper at home.

And more at expatica.com link above.

 

[STEADFAST]

From The French Paper:

Meanwhile Le Parisien quotes a friend of Thomas [the Dupont de Ligonnès’s eldest child], with whom the 18-year-old spent the day of 5 April.

‘He was smiling and joking as usual, there was nothing unusual in his behaviour,’ says the friend.

‘Then around 7pm he got a phone call that changed things,’ says the teenager, whose real name is not given.

‘It was from Thomas’ father saying that his mother had been in a bike accident and was in hospital.

‘Her life was not in danger, his father said, but he insisted that Thomas come home that night.’

After Thomas had gone home, his friend sent him a text asking him if everything was ok.

‘He replied:”I’m ill, I’m not coming back.”’

According to the teenager quoted in the newspaper neither that message not subsequent ones sounded like his friend. ‘They were too short, with no humour. Thomas wrote long texts – the impersonal tone of these was not him at all.’
More at link above.

Wow. That is chilling. I suppose that was the dad answering back. Can't wait for them to catch him.

 

[wfgodot]

The timeline appears to be a bit shaky above; the Interpol article has the prosecutor speculating the family were shot on 03 or 04 April; but the quotes from Le Parisien indicate that the eldest son, Thomas, spent the day with an 18-year-old friend on 05 April.

 

[sherlockh]

Couldn't find any English news articles yet, but the creep has possibly sent a family photo of 2 sons with the text 'I am still alive' to a journalist. Police is analyzing the handwriting.
http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-fait...voyee-par-le-suspect-ou-un-corbeau-7779197107