France, Paris - "Lola", 12, Missing after school, Body bound in suitcase, Numbers 1 & 0 put on corpse with 'device', Oct. 2022 *Female suspect arrest*

[5W's]

Scandinavian cultural context posed theoretically for this case. Given that the perp was born in Algeria, I don't think it's relevant.

I don't think so. First of all Ageria has a past with French colonization so they would understand the conotation. Secondly the context of the OP that scandanavian girl posted was "I win (1) you lose (0). So in this case it is relevant. Also when I saw her post I hadn't seen that Lola's mother didn't give the perp a door pass. But regardless of the mother not giving the perp the pass I still stand corrected but the pass adds more merit to my opinion (MOO.) The perp was filled with jealousy and hate to begin, (My Own Opinion Only) as I stated in my original post answering or replying to agree with scanadnavian girl. The perp being filled with this already and having a very negative outlook due to being homeless (homeless people regardless of how upset they are don't go around committing violence) just added to the perp's woes and the perp took it out on Lola. If it wasn't Lola the perp would have taken it out on someone else. Lola was a vulnerable child so this perp was able to exact such horror on to this child. Perhaps if it was somone stronger the perp wouldn't be able to do so. MOO. Lastly, the perp's sister had a flat in the building yet only two years older 26. So everything added up for this perp. MOO. IMO the perp may have felt less than so thus was her outlook and this time the perp won with both Lola and Lola's mother as well as French society in general. MOO.

 

[5W's]

Something that hasn’t been highlighted much (probably because it’s difficult to even read and think about) is the female-on-female sadistic rape element of this crime. It is highly unusual.

I agree to a certain point but it is total degradation of the individual what has happened here. So I think its more along this line as men do and its power and control so in that sense IMO its not that unusual. It seems unusual because of the gender but taken in context its not really. MOO.

 

[5W's]

This whole article is disturbing, it should be noted that it says that the suspect has been found to have no psychological condition.

I thought as much originally I saw motive, intent and planning all along.

 

[dotr]

Did Lola's Paris 'murderer' confuse girl, 12, for her MOTHER?

Dahbia B., an Algerian national who arrived in France in 2016, allegedly tried to move in with her sister into the same apartment block where Lola's parents Delphine and Johan are custodians.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[5W's]

In this setting? Absolutely. I feel like I have pretty good situational awareness in general, but honestly I'm not going around on that level of alert where I would expect a young woman (who probably looked familiar) entering the apartment building at the same time, in broad daylight to torture, rape and murder me.

Lola was an innocent child. She was probably told something like "Oh, hi can you bring this to your mom or dad?" Or "Come see this ___?" I'm sure she was probably warned to use caution, but you would need to be almost paranoid of other people to suspect what horrors happened to her, and where they happened. She was home, in a building her parents worked in.

I think this is the worst case we've heard of in awhile.

IDK it is a basement I'm wondering if it was a windowless basement. Since its low I wonder if ther were hiding spaces. We don't know if poor Lola was lured or forcibally taken with the perp covering Lola's mouth. So in that sense just because it is home it unfortunately is a false sense of security being where it was. If it was on another level maybe it one could be less guarded.

 

[fred&edna]

I'm neither local nor a native French speaker but there is something written in French by William Molinié quoted in LammyTheRobot's post #126 which I haven't seen otherwise mentioned on this thread in English. But it's a disturbing detail which presumably took place after the murder. At least I sincerely hope so. Anyway since it's pretty disturbing and downright disgusting, I'll only translate it if actually requested. I think most people's school French would let them understand anyway.

This whole article is disturbing, it should be noted that it says that the suspect has been found to have no psychological condition.

I was able to click the translate button to read Molinié's tweets. We know that Dahbia subjected this child to a horrible death AND it seems she spoke quite a bit during her interrogation... I don't know if I believe everything she said OR maybe I just don't want to believe it And, I also read the part @smucklecrumble posted, "the behavioral examination did not reveal any psychological danger and his condition was deemed compatible with police custody'".

I have to wonder if family members were more than mildly concerned about Dahbia's statements and behavior in the hours before she lured, tortured and murdered Lola?

How many of Dahbia's family members live in Paris (aside from sister)?

 

[5W's]

rbbm.

Paris murder: Killing of Lola, 12, sparks immigration row in France

Grief and outrage over the killing of 12-year-old Lola turns to debate over the suspect's migrant status.

www.bbc.com

''Grief and outrage in France over the murder of a 12-year-old girl found dumped in a plastic trunk in Paris has turned into a political row over the migrant status of the suspect.
Lola's body was found last Friday in a courtyard outside the apartment block where she lived.
A 24-year-old woman has been remanded in custody on suspicion of murder, rape as well as acts of torture.
It has also emerged she is an Algerian immigrant under orders to leave France.
Shortly after President Emmanuel Macron met the murdered girl's parents at the Élysée Palace on Tuesday and promised his full support, political opponents on the right and far right accused the government of failing the family.''

''A post-mortem examination found she had suffered cardiorespiratory failure "with signs of asphyxiation and cervical compression". Wounds were found to her face, back and neck but had not led to her death.''


''She was initially stopped at a French airport on 20 August because her residence permit had run out. She had entered France legally as a student six years ago. Dahbia B was told to leave French territory within a month, under an order known as an OQTF (obligation de quitter le territoire français).
Although some orders are more immediate, Dahbia B had no criminal record so she was not placed in detention. OQTF orders are notorious because only one in 10 are observed, and Algerians are among the nationalities considered most likely to abuse the system.''

Another feeling to add to the list of upset for the perp. The thing is with the migrant issue its the outlook of those who arrive to the hosting country. Its not just making a better life for ONESELF its also about respecting the host country and its values. One in particular comes to mind loathing crime and violence as one of them.

 

[evilwise]

I was able to click the translate button to read Molinié's tweets. We know that Dahbia subjected this child to a horrible death AND it seems she spoke quite a bit during her interrogation... I don't know if I believe everything she said OR maybe I just don't want to believe it And, I also read the part @smucklecrumble posted, "the behavioral examination did not reveal any psychological danger and his condition was deemed compatible with police custody'".

I have to wonder if family members were more than mildly concerned about Dahbia's statements and behavior in the hours before she lured, tortured and murdered Lola?

How many of Dahbia's family members live in Paris (aside from sister)?

I'm taking her statements in the tweets to mean that she suffocated Lola and then listened to music and drank coffee to be sure that she was dead before she cut her because she wanted her blood. This doesn't quite mesh with the "no psychological condition" reporting so I'm guessing some reporting or translation is in error or that it's obvious to investigators that the prep is lying in an attempt to seem crazy.

 

[Eloise]

Hard with translation issues and also not knowing anything about French laws, but perhaps, it's less that there are no psychological issues at all and more that she's so far been found of sound mind with regard to being able to discern wrong from right. Not everyone with mental illness, even severe ones, is legally 'insane' meaning cannot be found guilty.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I read things here similar to this post, but this has a few differences so thought I'd post. Underlined things I hadn't seen before. I apologize if it's a repeat of what others have seen.

An autopsy of Lola revealed that she died of cardiorespiratory failure with signs of asphyxiation and cervical compression, according to the statement. She had multiple other injuries, “notably to her face, back and with large cuts to her neck, which did not play a role her death according to the coroner’s conclusions of her cause of death,” the police statement said. There was no sign of injuries from sexual trauma, the police prosecutor said, and a zero and one were written in red under each of the young victim’s feet.

On Monday, French authorities opened an official judicial investigation into the case into the charges of “murder of a minor under the age of 15, accompanied by rape of a minor, torture or acts of savagery; rape of a minor with torture or acts of savagery; and concealment of a corpse,” the statement said.

I had a feeling rape by a woman to a girl, would end up "torturous" since females don't have a penis. This case is getting worse by the minute.

ETA - I guess I don't understand (and likely don't want to or I'll be further disturbed) but I don't understand how there can be "There was no sign of injuries from sexual trauma", yet it was "rape of a minor with torture or acts of savagery". To me, one rules out the other. If you were raped with torture or acts of savagery, there'll be signs of it. Otherwise, how'd they even come up with that?

Body of 12-year-old girl found in plastic box in a case that has shocked France | CNN

In a case that has gripped France, Lola's body was found mutilated and stuffed into a plastic box, just hours after her mother posted this message on October 14. Caught on camera, her mother said, is the woman with Lola that last time she was seen alive, in the building where the family lives.

www.cnn.com

This would depend what the legal definition of 'rape' is in France (and maybe in general). Not to get too graphic but say for example, it could be that intruding someone's private parts without their consent, ie force, as part of a washing ritual could be defined as rape whether or not the intention was sexually motivated, even if no injury occurred, even if it was done very gently. Not saying any of that is the case, just putting forward the question as to what does 'rape' technically comprise?

 

[amandab]

I almost hate to ask, but what in the world is "cervical compression" as it relates to a cause of death?

 

[LammyTheRobot]

I almost hate to ask, but what in the world is "cervical compression" as it relates to a cause of death?

It refers to the spinal cervix, it’s a marker of strangulation.

 

[rhino]

I almost hate to ask, but what in the world is "cervical compression" as it relates to a cause of death?

Strangulation. Cervical (neck) vertebrae.

 

[5W's]

This would depend what the legal definition of 'rape' is in France (and maybe in general). Not to get too graphic but say for example, it could be that intruding someone's private parts without their consent, ie force, as part of a washing ritual could be defined as rape whether or not the intention was sexually motivated, even if no injury occurred, even if it was done very gently. Not saying any of that is the case, just putting forward the question as to what does 'rape' technically comprise?

I think any jurisdiction in the world would equate rape to forcible penetration. I don't think intent would play into the definition of rape itself in the legal sense technically.

 

[Lonicera]

<modsnip: no source link>
For Lola , know that she was French aerobic champion: the French Gymnastics Federation paid tribute to her . LA FFGYM SOUS LE CHOC
"The French Gymnastics Federation was informed of the disappearance of Lola, French Aerobics champion, brutally murdered in Paris (19th) on Friday night. The appalling circumstances of his death plunge the members of the federation and the entire gymnastics family into a deep sorrow and a feeling of misunderstanding."

We also know that even seasoned police officers were particularly shocked by the horror of this crime.

 

[5W's]

The info in the link is interesting (obviously using Google translate), here's a snippet...

23:27 – The ex-boyfriend of the main suspect comes out of silence​

END OF LIVE – Tuesday evening, BFM TV managed to obtain the testimony of an ex-companion of the main suspect in the Lola case. He said that the young woman had changed her behavior in recent days. "The last time I saw her was 10 days ago. It's true that she had lost her mind compared to her mother and her father," he explained. And to continue: "She was walking a little, she was talking to herself between her lips and I was asking her: 'What?' And she replied: 'No nothing, it's between me and me'." Referring to the "gibberish" of his ex-girlfriend, the man claims that the young woman would also have made remarks about religion. "I'm going to be a Christian," she also allegedly told him. Whilehe asked her why she wanted to do this, she would have explained that she no longer knew where she was, justifying: "My mother is dead, my father is dead." At the microphone of BFM TV, the man claims to have fallen from the clouds when he learned that she was suspected of having killed the young Lola.

Affaire Lola : la suspecte conteste les accusations, après des aveux abjects

Look, IDK but is he trying to say this is a psychological issue the perp just developed? I am reading this. Someone just died so horrifically and he wants to make it appear that he knew someone else not the perp who committed this horror IMO it alludes to this. It really does seem like this fellow was in the clouds IMO as he says himself. What the perp did to Lola was extremely degrading while poor Lola was still alive, so is he saying that he didn't know that the perp's outlook was this negative that the perp could degrade someone like this? I find that hard to believe. Afterall he was closest to the perp being the perp's boyfriend/lover.

 

[Lonicera]

Meurtre de Lola : l’un des hommes placés en garde à vue bientôt renvoyé en Algérie

"Lola’s murder: one of the men placed in custody soon returned to AlgeriaINFO LE PARISIEN. Dahbia B., suspected of having killed little Lola on October 14, had been accommodated the following night by one of his friends, a 32-year-old Algerian. This irregular man has since been placed in an administrative detention centre for expulsion from French territory."

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Look, IDK but is he trying to say this is a psychological issue the perp just developed? I am reading this. Someone just died so horrifically and he wants to make it appear that he knew someone else not the perp who committed this horror IMO it alludes to this. It really does seem like this fellow was in the clouds IMO as he says himself. What the perp did to Lola was extremely degrading while poor Lola was still alive, so is he saying that he didn't know that the perp's outlook was this negative that the perp could degrade someone like this? I find that hard to believe. Afterall he was closest to the perp being the perp's boyfriend/lover.

I think he's saying the perpetrator had recently lost her mind in relation to the deaths of her mother and father. Which would make me wonder how they died and what happened and if she had suddenly had some kind of mental health crisis in response to a shocking event. Of course there is no justification for what happened but what people are capable of in active psychosis is a completely different thing than a malicious murder. As anyone who knows about something like schizophrenia can sadly understand but the average person may not be able to comprehend.

 

[Beekarina]

I think any jurisdiction in the world would equate rape to forcible penetration. I don't think intent would play into the definition of rape itself in the legal sense technically.

The Tweet's explain one thing that happened which probably fits the definition.

 

[Lusitana]

I wonder if any of the people described as being homeless in this case are even actually homeless.