Freddy Gray Verdict #2. Not Guilty

[Jax49]

Wise decision on their part, eh?

Mosby asserted the knife was legal when she made the original charges about the illegality of FG's arrest. I didn't follow the legal blow by blow about how the related charge morphed into what it became - a charge of assault by Nero because he didn't question the validity of the probable cause basis for FG's arrest. Maybe that charge became the convoluted & horribly misguided thing that it did precisely because Mosby punted after learning the knife was in fact legal?

A legal knife would certainly have made LE's defense more difficult, and an illegal knife, more difficult for the State.

IMO, though, legal or illegal, the knife had very little to do with what happened that day to Freddy Gray. jmo


(As an aside, both my DH and I have been trying to follow these cases without following them extremely closely, because of the possibility of being called for jury duty for one of the trials. DH already has been summoned for duty in a time frame where that is theoretically possible, and my turn is soon, as it's been 2 years since I last served).

I haven't followed it closely either, but imho, it seems she (Mosby) jumped before she knew where she was going to land. I think the driver's trial is going to be very interesting. Really curious to see what happened during that ride. Whatever happened a man died a horrible death.

Peace.

RIP Freddie Gray and peace to his family.

 

[sonjay]

The part that I bolded above, does not seem correct, in my opinion. I think it has been shown that in a 'high crime' area, a cop has the right and the responsibility, to chase after someone running away from him.

But most important, is the back story to all of this. Marilyn Mosby ORDERED the police to go to this specific area, and clean up the drug dealing on that corner. And along comes FG, a KNOWN small time dealer, arrested many times for possession, who takes off running.

So Marilyn Mosby SENDS the police there to patrol that corner, in order to clean up the crime/drugs, and then when the cops chase down a known dealer with an illegal knife, they are arrested and she is outraged that he was stopped by them. I am sorry, but that is just nonsensical, on her part.

It is true that they need to get to the bottom of why and how he dies during the transport. But charging the other officers for detaining and arresting him is outrageous and pathetic, in my opinion. Especially when they were sent there by Mosby herself. :no:

Snipped & BBM.

Exactly so.

The guy who orders a "hit" is just as culpable for a murder as the hired hitman who pulls the trigger. Even more so, because he instigated the murder.

So if these cops committed assault or murder for arresting FG, then MM is double-guilty of assault & murder and should be up on charges just like they are.

 

[K_Z]

Wise decision on their part, eh?

Mosby asserted the knife was legal when she made the original charges about the illegality of FG's arrest. I didn't follow the legal blow by blow about how the related charge morphed into what it became - a charge of assault by Nero because he didn't question the validity of the probable cause basis for FG's arrest. Maybe that charge became the convoluted & horribly misguided thing that it did precisely because Mosby punted after learning the knife was in fact legal?

A legal knife would certainly have made LE's defense more difficult, and an illegal knife, more difficult for the State.

IMO, though, legal or illegal, the knife had very little to do with what happened that day to Freddy Gray. jmo


(As an aside, both my DH and I have been trying to follow these cases without following them extremely closely, because of the possibility of being called for jury duty for one of the trials. DH already has been summoned for duty in a time frame where that is theoretically possible, and my turn is soon, as it's been 2 years since I last served).

(BTW-- I have issues with brevity also! We need a 10 step program, or something! )

I agree that the knife had little to do with what happened that day. Marilyn Mosby's personal interpretation of "Terry" is much more relevant than the knife, IMO. If the reforms Marilyn Mosby is trying to implement include criminalizing the behavior of officers who conduct "Terry" stops that she ordered, then there is a heckuva legal quandry. I don't call that "reform."

MM apparently thinks *she* can singlehandedly manipulate the Supreme Court decision on "Terry stops". I see this as MM *commanding*, so she can have it "her" way every time-- sometimes (after the fact) she decides she wants Terry to the be the law, but sometimes she wants to throw it out the window and demonize the officers for doing their jobs. The officers don't have a crystal ball handy in the squad car, or on their patrol bikes, to try to figure out which way MM is going to decide that particular day. Nobody can do their job effectively in an environment like that. But the proverbial elephant in the room is that just like broken windows policing, Terry stops actually work to reduce crime in crime-ridden areas.

Moreover, it is entirely possible that just like in health care, everything can be done "right", and still a bad outcome happens, for a variety of reasons. We don't arrest and criminalize doctors and nurses when that happens, but apparently we DO criminalize officer behavior without proof when there is a bad outcome. (Or a bad outcome that leads to riots.) Then the city hands $6.5 million dollars to some distant heirs to plant the very public idea that police definitely did something *wrong*, and pre-taint the jury pool ahead of the officers' trials. Political pandering, and malicious prosecution.

Just because FG sustained a spinal cord injury in the back of the van is not "proof" that any of the officers did anything wrong that lead to the injury, IMO. Certainly not any kind of proof that justifies these kind of sweeping charges of the officers. If FG was flinging his head and neck around trying to cause a commotion, or yes, even trying to injure himself, a lap belt would not have reliably prevented that-- but the lap belt is now the one thing that everyone is so sure would have "saved FG." His behavior was uncooperative every step of the way, and IMO, he bears a significant proportion of responsibility for what happened to him.

I'd like to see the charges dropped against the other officers, but MM is too far deep in this now to do that, even to save her own sorry hide. So now the other 4 trials (and a re-trial) have to play out, at tremendous expense, while the officers get to wait and wonder which of them will be the big sacrifice to "save" B'more from new riots.

 

[drjones]

Snipped & BBM.

Exactly so.

The guy who orders a "hit" is just as culpable for a murder as the hired hitman who pulls the trigger. Even more so, because he instigated the murder.

So if these cops committed assault or murder for arresting FG, then MM is double-guilty of assault & murder and should be up on charges just like they are.

this is not a legally or logically sound analogy. you would need some sort of proof that she ordered or encouraged them to illegally assault and/or detain people for the comparison to work.

 

[Hope4More]

(BTW-- I have issues with brevity also! We need a 10 step program, or something! )

I agree that the knife had little to do with what happened that day. Marilyn Mosby's personal interpretation of "Terry" is much more relevant than the knife, IMO. If the reforms Marilyn Mosby is trying to implement include criminalizing the behavior of officers who conduct "Terry" stops that she ordered, then there is a heckuva legal quandry. I don't call that "reform."

MM apparently thinks *she* can singlehandedly manipulate the Supreme Court decision on "Terry stops". I see this as MM *commanding*, so she can have it "her" way every time-- sometimes (after the fact) she decides she wants Terry to the be the law, but sometimes she wants to throw it out the window and demonize the officers for doing their jobs. The officers don't have a crystal ball handy in the squad car, or on their patrol bikes, to try to figure out which way MM is going to decide that particular day. Nobody can do their job effectively in an environment like that. But the proverbial elephant in the room is that just like broken windows policing, Terry stops actually work to reduce crime in crime-ridden areas.

Moreover, it is entirely possible that just like in health care, everything can be done "right", and still a bad outcome happens, for a variety of reasons. We don't arrest and criminalize doctors and nurses when that happens, but apparently we DO criminalize officer behavior without proof when there is a bad outcome. (Or a bad outcome that leads to riots.) Then the city hands $6.5 million dollars to some distant heirs to plant the very public idea that police definitely did something *wrong*, and pre-taint the jury pool ahead of the officers' trials. Political pandering, and malicious prosecution.

Just because FG sustained a spinal cord injury in the back of the van is not "proof" that any of the officers did anything wrong that lead to the injury, IMO. Certainly not any kind of proof that justifies these kind of sweeping charges of the officers. If FG was flinging his head and neck around trying to cause a commotion, or yes, even trying to injure himself, a lap belt would not have reliably prevented that-- but the lap belt is now the one thing that everyone is so sure would have "saved FG." His behavior was uncooperative every step of the way, and IMO, he bears a significant proportion of responsibility for what happened to him.

I'd like to see the charges dropped against the other officers, but MM is too far deep in this now to do that, even to save her own sorry hide. So now the other 4 trials (and a re-trial) have to play out, at tremendous expense, while the officers get to wait and wonder which of them will be the big sacrifice to "save" B'more from new riots.

First....what riots or potential for riots? As I said in the beginning posts about Nero's verdict, only 5 peeps even showed up outside the courthouse to await the verdict, and none of them were there to protest if a not-guilty verdict was handed down. There were zero protests anywhere in B'more following Nero's verdict, much less riots.

Fact of the matter is, many B'moreans believe reports of the initial "rioting" over Freddy Gray were greatly sensationalized and exaggerated, and that city officials were themselves responsible to no small degree for what rioting there was.

Examples: The bussing of high school kids straight to the site of what began as a small peaceful protest, and most obscene of any of the bad decisions in those days, the Mayor's "hands off" directive to LE --to not get in the way of protestors "letting off steam," and no, LE wasn't then and still isn't appreciative about that one.

Almost all media set up to report on the rioting from the vantage point of that one CVS because that one CVS was one of the few sites actually destroyed. Yes, windows got smashed elsewhere, other stores were looted, anger was directed at LE, lots of helicopters circled for days, and kids were even kept home for "riot days" from quiet, completely undisturbed public schools miles away from the small affected area near downtown, but compared to past actual riots in B'more, the rioting itself was a non-event.


Second. Freddy Gray was not responsible for his injuries. He would be alive had he been secured by a seat belt. His autopsy indicated the injury to his neck was caused by a single event, not by any voluntary movement by FG while in the van.

What sounds most likely is that FG managed to stand up sometime after stop 2. He was handcuffed and iirc, his ankles were bound as well. Deliberate or not, if he were standing and bound, a sudden sharp stop or perhaps turn would apparently have been sufficient to account for the injuries he sustained.

The seat belt mattered. And it mattered that even after other officers told Gooding, the driver, that FG needed medical attention, Gooding went on to make another routine stop rather than to get FG medical care.


Last, your reference to " everything being done right," but with a bad outcome result. Leaving Gooding's decisions aside. IMO, it depends on what is meant by "everything being done right.".

Clearly something went very wrong for a man who had done nothing illegal to die in police custody. If everyone involved did what is considered the "right" thing that day, then perhaps a re-evaluation of what is considered "right" is in order. Mosby's approach - to invent law- isn't the answer. But neither is accepting "collateral damage" as an inevitable consequence of what IMO is a very flawed LE tactic.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Two officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray are suing Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby for defamation and invasion of privacy.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...i-gray-officers-sue-mosby-20160525-story.html

The officers claim that Mosby and Cogen knew the statement of charges filed against the officers and other statements made by Mosby at a May 1, 2015, news conference announcing the charges "were false."

"These among other statements were made not for the purpose of prosecuting crimes that had allegedly been committed by White and Porter, but rather for purposes of quelling the riots in Baltimore," the suit alleges.

 

[KaaBoom]

Two officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray are suing Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby for defamation and invasion of privacy.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...i-gray-officers-sue-mosby-20160525-story.html

The officers claim that Mosby and Cogen knew the statement of charges filed against the officers and other statements made by Mosby at a May 1, 2015, news conference announcing the charges "were false."

"These among other statements were made not for the purpose of prosecuting crimes that had allegedly been committed by White and Porter, but rather for purposes of quelling the riots in Baltimore," the suit alleges.

Probably the dumbest lawsuit ever filed.

Legal experts expressed doubt that the lawsuit would be successful.

A. Dwight Pettit, who litigates civil cases in Baltimore but is not involved in this case, said prosecutors enjoy immunity from being sued "unless you can show some sort of malicious intent, which is a very steep burden."

"It's very unusual," he said of the officers' lawsuit. "The allegations would have to border on intentional conduct to cause them irreparable injury."

 

[YESorNO]

Murder Trial Begins For Driver Of Police Van In Freddie Gray Case (audio/transcript)

"Caesar Goodson drove the van in which prosecutors say Freddie Gray was fatally injured. Witnesses from the two previous trials have testified that he bore ultimate responsibility for Gray's safety. Goodson faces the most serious charge in the case — second degree murder — and legal analysts see his trial as make-or-break for prosecutors, who have yet to get a conviction..."

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/09/48143...for-driver-of-police-van-in-freddie-gray-case
---

Judge Finds Prosecutors Withheld Evidence in Freddie Gray Officer Case (with clip)

"The judge overseeing the trial of a police officer charged with murder in the death of Freddie Gray has determined that prosecutors withheld information that would have been beneficial to the defense.

Judge Barry Williams was visibly angry in the Baltimore court, but he did not dismiss the charges against police officer Caesar Goodson, as his attorneys had requested. Williams is giving prosecutors until Monday to disclose any other relevant evidence they have withheld. Goodson was the driver of the van during the arrest of Gray, 25, last year.

Goodson's attorneys have argued that prosecutors withheld statements made last year by Donta Allen, a key witness. Allen was picked up by the Baltimore police van after Gray..."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-find...idence-freddie-gray-officer/story?id=39725459
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[sonjay]

Goodson's attorneys have argued that prosecutors withheld statements made last year by Donta Allen, a key witness. Allen was picked up by the Baltimore police van after Gray..."

Snipped for focus & BBM.

Not a big surprise there. Prosecutors have been playing fast and loose with the truth from the beginning.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Murder Trial Begins For Driver Of Police Van In Freddie Gray Case (audio/transcript)

"Caesar Goodson drove the van in which prosecutors say Freddie Gray was fatally injured. Witnesses from the two previous trials have testified that he bore ultimate responsibility for Gray's safety. Goodson faces the most serious charge in the case — second degree murder — and legal analysts see his trial as make-or-break for prosecutors, who have yet to get a conviction..."

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/09/48143...for-driver-of-police-van-in-freddie-gray-case
---

Judge Finds Prosecutors Withheld Evidence in Freddie Gray Officer Case (with clip)

"The judge overseeing the trial of a police officer charged with murder in the death of Freddie Gray has determined that prosecutors withheld information that would have been beneficial to the defense.

Judge Barry Williams was visibly angry in the Baltimore court, but he did not dismiss the charges against police officer Caesar Goodson, as his attorneys had requested. Williams is giving prosecutors until Monday to disclose any other relevant evidence they have withheld. Goodson was the driver of the van during the arrest of Gray, 25, last year.

Goodson's attorneys have argued that prosecutors withheld statements made last year by Donta Allen, a key witness. Allen was picked up by the Baltimore police van after Gray..."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-find...idence-freddie-gray-officer/story?id=39725459
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The verdict is expected to be handed down today by the Judge. If anyone is going to be a scapegoat it will probably be Goodson but the Judge will not convict him on the higher charges the prosecution wants. Imo

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Not guilty per Fox News

 

[perfectingpink]

Officer Found Not Guilty of Second-Degree Murder in Freddie Gray Trial

http://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-issue-verdict-3rd-freddie-gray-trial/story?id=40056378

 

[katydid23]

Wow. Two officers have been found NOT GUILTY so far. And the first was a hung jury. I think the next three are weaker cases than the first three even. Looks like Mosby is in trouble right now.

 

[scmom]

Copy of the full verdict.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...fficer-caesar-goodson-20160623-htmlstory.html

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Wow. Two officers have been found NOT GUILTY so far. And the first was a hung jury. I think the next three are weaker cases than the first three even. Looks like Mosby is in trouble right now.

Bet she's absolutely pi$$ed. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near her today lol.

 

[sonjay]

A couple of excerpts from the verdict. I bolded a few parts that I found particularly interesting:

This Court is constrained by the law to base its decisions on the facts presented in Court. While certainly possible, the evidence presented at this trial, even if looking at only the State's witnesses, does not lead this Court the conclusion that the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Gray was in need of medical treatment between stops 2 and 5 and that the defendant, or an officer similarly situated, would have or should have known that Mr. Gray was necessarily in need of medical treatment at stops 2 through 5.

...

The actions, inactions, and interactions, and observations between stops 2 and 6 are the sum total of all the evidence that has been presented to the Court to make the determination that the defendant intended to give Mr. Gray a "rough ride." Of course, in order to show a rough ride, there must be evidence.

A thorough review of all of the State's witnesses shows that not one was able to state a definition of rough ride with the exception of Mr. O'Neill, who indicated his opinion of what a rough ride was, but was unsure if one occurred here.

...

The state argued in closing that, by failing to seat belt Mr. Gray and then driving, the defendant knew what would happen, and that he intended for Mr. Gray to be injured, but possibly not to the degree Mr. Gray was injured.

This Court finds no evidence that was presented that would support that specific argument.

 

[sonjay]

Bet she's absolutely pi$$ed. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near her today lol.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near if I worked for her.

But I would dearly love to be a fly on the wall in her office today.

 

[sonjay]

Does anyone know offhand what the key charges are against the remaining defendants?

We've got a judge's decision that there was no evidence of a rough ride.

We've got a judge's decision that there was no evidence that failure to seat belt Gray was the result of any intention to harm him.

And we've got a judge's decision that Goodson nor any officers similarly situated knew or should have known prior to the last stop that Gray was in need of medical assistance.

Is that pretty much game, set and match for the remaining defendants?

Does it give Mosby a clue how unutterably hopeless these cases are?

 

[al66pine]

The judge's below point is pivotal to one charge against this defendant.
"... The Court was presented with expert testimony stating that once someone who has been combative calms down, it does not mean that they cannot immediately return to a higher level of hostility and danger...." bbm from page 30 of transcript.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...fficer-caesar-goodson-20160623-htmlstory.html June 23

Time after time w physically violent encounters between LEOs and others, ppl comment to this effect:
'The guy was laying on the ground/ on his knees/ laying on the ground on his side/ back sitting in his car in driver's seat/ etc.,
but LEO hit him anyway/kicked him/ used a night stick/ etc. LEO's action was unnecessary/ cruel/ unusual/ inhumane /criminal/ etc.'

Possibility of a combative person calming, then returning to a higher level of hostility & danger occurs to me (even w/out expert testimony). Sometimes I agree w conclusion that LEO's continued action is unnecessary, but not always. It is situation-specific, and imo, has to be decided on an individual scenario basis. How many other non-LEOs are at scene who may join attack on LEO? How many other LEOs are there to back-up LEO#1? How severe are the injuries the person has incurred? What about severity of injuries to LEO? What other weapons are avail to LEO? What about hidden weapons the other person may have? Plus many other factors.

OT, as judge made this finding in this case, on this charge, against this defendant. But imo it is something to consider in other cases too. JM2cts.

ETA: scmom,
TYVM for link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...fficer-caesar-goodson-20160623-htmlstory.html

 

[katydid23]

so this is interesting;

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-goodson-verdict-20160623-story.html

After three trials, prosecutors have been unable to secure a conviction on any count. The first trial, of Officer William Porter, ended in a hung jury and mistrial last December. The second, of Nero, ended last month with Nero being acquitted of all charges by Williams in a bench trial.

A juror in the trial of Porter told The Baltimore Sun that the jury was 11-to-1 to acquit Porter of manslaughter, but had been leaning toward convicting him of lesser counts before deciding they were deadlocked.

In pursuing the charges against the officers, prosecutors won a victory in the state's highest court earlier this year when they sought to have defendants testify under immunity as witnesses against their co-defendants. As a result, two of the upcoming trials — of Porter and Miller — must be handled by a new team of prosecutors.

The next trial, of Lt. Brian Rice, who is charged with manslaughter, is scheduled to begin July 7. The other officers' trial dates are: Miller (July 27), Porter (Sept. 6) and Sgt. Alicia White (Oct. 13).




So they deadlocked on Officer Porter, but were leaning towards GUILTY on some of the lesser charges. I wonder if these 'Not Guiltys' will affect that outcome in his next trial?