GA - 8 dead after shootings at three spas, Atlanta, 16 Mar 2021 *arrest*

[dixiegirl1035]

@Alethea - since this murder spree happened across multiple counties, does that make it more likely that it may become an FBI case/Federal case vs. different trials in different jurisdictions? If that makes sense. (notwithstanding the potential legal definitions of serial killer vs. mass murderer, and any hate crime federal charges)

*scratches head* I'm missing Foxfire who could do a quick tell on what is the FBI classification of this spree that was on one dedicated purpose for killing at multiple sites. Does anyone recall what that is? TIA

I wonder if he did actually visit all 3 of these places before vs. being random, and if they are verifying such and if so, will it affect charges.

 

[Inthedetails]

@Alethea - since this murder spree happened across multiple counties, does that make it more likely that it may become an FBI case/Federal case vs. different trials in different jurisdictions? If that makes sense. (notwithstanding the potential legal definitions of serial killer vs. mass murderer, and any hate crime federal charges)

*scratches head* I'm missing Foxfire who could do a quick tell on what is the FBI classification of this spree that was on one dedicated purpose for killing at multiple sites. Does anyone recall what that is? TIA

I wonder if he did actually visit all 3 of these places before vs. being random, and if they are verifying such and if so, will it affect charges.

I'm not sure crossing county lines would bump a case to the FBI (crossing state lines does), but I did find this on the FBI website, bbm:

"The FBI concentrates on crime problems that pose major threats to American society. Significant violent crime incidents such as mass killings, sniper murders, and serial killings can paralyze entire communities and stretch state and local law enforcement resources to their limits."

While this case is a mass killing case, I'm not sure the investigation is going to stretch law enforcement limits, especially since they caught the perp and he took responsibility.

There is also this at the FBI website:
"The FBI works human trafficking cases under its Crimes Against Children and Human Trafficking program."

It's possible the spas will be investigated, beyond the scope of this particular murder crime.

And here is this:
"Using its full suite of investigative and intelligence capabilities, the Bureau today works closely with its partners to prevent and address hate crime, color of law violations, and Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act violations."

What We Investigate — FBI

Has the FBI stepped in??

jmo

 

[adelynschmidt]

A few opinions & thoughts as of right now:
-Any LE should know not to just take a suspect's words at face value, just because he said he did it because of a sex addiction, does not mean that there can't be other motives, that's just investigating 101, even I (a non-LE) know that.
-The comment about him "having a bad day" just makes my blood boil. It minimizes the trauma and suffering of the victims & their families. I can almost gurantee they had a worse day than the suspect did. Even if that wasn't the intent, it's just irresponsible to not be careful with how you phrase things during a press conference.

 

[Alethea]

@Alethea - since this murder spree happened across multiple counties, does that make it more likely that it may become an FBI case/Federal case vs. different trials in different jurisdictions? If that makes sense. (notwithstanding the potential legal definitions of serial killer vs. mass murderer, and any hate crime federal charges)

*scratches head* I'm missing Foxfire who could do a quick tell on what is the FBI classification of this spree that was on one dedicated purpose for killing at multiple sites. Does anyone recall what that is? TIA

I wonder if he did actually visit all 3 of these places before vs. being random, and if they are verifying such and if so, will it affect charges.

There have been attempts recently to get legislation passed that would classify a mass shooting (3 or more people killed according to the current FBI definition) as a federal offense but it is not currently a federal crime. Using explosives makes a murder a federal crime but right now a mass murder within one state is a state crime that would be prosecuted by the state AG's office or the individual county attorneys. I do not practice in GA but I would assume the county attorneys and the state AG are currently deciding how to move forward. You wouldn't really want to have 3 separate trials if you can avoid it. I know in one state I practice in that is a small state, the State AG's office handles all major violent crimes automatically and the county attorneys handle lower level crimes. So you have some flexibility based on the state laws and the relationship between the prosecutors.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Imo, this latest case IS a hate crime and a domestic terrorist attack. Both.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

No, the victims were not all one race. The majority were Koarean. Not all were.
And the race angle has now taken off the table. It seems the victims were targeted by their occupation, not their nationality.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm not sure crossing county lines would bump a case to the FBI (crossing state lines does), but I did find this on the FBI website, bbm:

"The FBI concentrates on crime problems that pose major threats to American society. Significant violent crime incidents such as mass killings, sniper murders, and serial killings can paralyze entire communities and stretch state and local law enforcement resources to their limits."

While this case is a mass killing case, I'm not sure the investigation is going to stretch law enforcement limits, especially since they caught the perp and he took responsibility.

There is also this at the FBI website:
"The FBI works human trafficking cases under its Crimes Against Children and Human Trafficking program."

It's possible the spas will be investigated, beyond the scope of this particular murder crime.

And here is this:
"Using its full suite of investigative and intelligence capabilities, the Bureau today works closely with its partners to prevent and address hate crime, color of law violations, and Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act violations."

What We Investigate — FBI

Has the FBI stepped in??

jmo

So if not federal, there will be two cases? As were in two state jurisdictions IIRC. Two in Buckhead area of Atlanta ... the other north in another county.

ETA: I later see our resident atty has spoken on this after I responded to this post... thanks @Alethea

There have been attempts recently to get legislation passed that would classify a mass shooting (3 or more people killed according to the current FBI definition) as a federal offense but it is not currently a federal crime. Using explosives makes a murder a federal crime but right now a mass murder within one state is a state crime that would be prosecuted by the state AG's office or the individual county attorneys. I do not practice in GA but I would assume the county attorneys and the state AG are currently deciding how to move forward. You wouldn't really want to have 3 separate trials if you can avoid it. I know in one state I practice in that is a small state, the State AG's office handles all major violent crimes automatically and the county attorneys handle lower level crimes. So you have some flexibility based on the state laws and the relationship between the prosecutors.

 

[Betty P]

Very first Covid thread was started January 17 2020.

In my area, widespread public discussion (and panic) about the COVID 19 virus began around the second week of March 2020. People had also begun calling it the "beer bug" because the term coronavirus was widely used in the news media. The presence of those shirts in someone's social media post seems very realistic, also disgraceful. JMO.

 

[slowpoke]

I have been following the story.
Everything that has came out (except the original specification) has focused on this guy's sexual issues and addiction, not the race (or nationality) of the women.
He has been treated for sexual addiction. No evidence of hatred/bias against Koreans (or any other Asian nationality) has been discovered from looking into his past. My experience watching the background on shooters that hate a certain group of people enough to kill them speak about their hatred quite often before the crime. This guy spoke of sexual addiction, not bias.
Robert Aaron Long: What we know about the suspect in Atlanta spa shootings - CNN

From the U.S. DOJ site:
Learn About Hate Crimes
“The term "hate" can be misleading. When used in a hate crime law, the word "hate" does not mean rage, anger, or general dislike. In this context “hate” means bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law.

At the federal level, hate crime laws include crimes committed on the basis of the victim’s perceived or actual race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability.“

It is my opinion this shooter’s crime fits the above definition.

 

[Valiant]

From the U.S. DOJ site:
Learn About Hate Crimes
“The term "hate" can be misleading. When used in a hate crime law, the word "hate" does not mean rage, anger, or general dislike. In this context “hate” means bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law.

At the federal level, hate crime laws include crimes committed on the basis of the victim’s perceived or actual race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability.“

It is my opinion this shooter’s crime fits the above definition.

That is your opinion. But I haven't heard any facts that his bias was anything but against the occupation of the victims (which is bad enough).
Whether he killed them because they were Asian or because they worked in an industry he couldn't deal with (because of his own screwed up mind) he deserves the same full punishment. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, "hate" crime or not.

 

[gitana1]

BBM. There is still no reason to 'blame' China. Any more reason than there is to blame the US for the 1918 flu pandemic that the US spread all over the world when they arrived in Europe when WW1 was almost over and armies were being demobbed to take it back with them to their home countries,

And then labelled it the “Spanish Flu!”

 

[gitana1]

The first court appearance Thursday for the suspect in the Atlanta-area spa shootings has been canceled, a Cherokee County court official told The Washington Post.

Robert Aaron Long, 21, was expected in court Thursday for arraignment after eight people, including six Asian women, were fatally shot. But the Cherokee County clerk of courts confirmed to The Post early Thursday that his first appearance had been canceled.

An official with the court could not give a reason for why it was canceled, citing the details surrounding Long’s case as “sealed up.”

“All I can say is that it has been canceled today,” the court official told The Post.

Long has been charged with multiple counts of murder, homicide and aggravated assault. Authorities say he has confessed to the shootings.


Atlanta spa shootings: Live updates - The Washington Post

I wonder if he killed himself.

 

[gitana1]

I'm wondering if he confessed and doesn't want a trial.

jmo

edited to add....or would he still need to be arraigned even if he pleas guilty? Can someone who knows clarify that?

He would still need to be arraigned.

ETA: I see Althea explained he can waive arraignment. Maybe that’s what happened.

But if he intends to plead guilty he would eventual have to appear in court to do so.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I wonder if he killed himself.

WaPo says this:

Long’s first court appearance was abruptly canceled Thursday morning after he waived it in writing through his attorney, according to the Cherokee County district attorney’s office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/18/atlanta-shooting-live-updates/

 

[worm]

I wonder if he killed himself.

I’m sure we would hear that. He, or his atty, may just want to avoid an open hearing where facts could be laid out. Or just to avoid the media and public attention.

 

[gitana1]

I would think that he would still have to appear for sentencing if he pleads guilty. And he has to appear in court to even plead guilty if I'm remembering correctly from past cases.

Yes. That’s right.

 

[gitana1]

WaPo says this:

Long’s first court appearance was abruptly canceled Thursday morning after he waived it in writing through his attorney, according to the Cherokee County district attorney’s office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/18/atlanta-shooting-live-updates/

Ah. Thank you.

 

[slowpoke]

That is your opinion. But I haven't heard any facts that his bias was anything but against the occupation of the victims (which is bad enough).
Whether he killed them because they were Asian or because they worked in an industry he couldn't deal with (because of his own screwed up mind) he deserves the same full punishment. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, "hate" crime or not.

Whether or not it can be prosecuted as a hate crime is one thing, but I personally feel it is important to call it out as one.

At the same DOJ link I provided, this example is given seems similar to this current case, as a hate crime against the targets’ gender. So, even if race is disregarded, I see it as a hate crime against women. -MOO

“Scenario - Gender
A woman took a handgun into a fitness center, entered the men’s locker room, and fired numerous shots. Two men were killed and one other man was injured in the shooting. The killer’s blog revealed that she had planned the attack for some time and harbored a deep hatred for men for rejecting her all of her life.”

 

[dixiegirl1035]

From the U.S. DOJ site:
Learn About Hate Crimes
“The term "hate" can be misleading. When used in a hate crime law, the word "hate" does not mean rage, anger, or general dislike. In this context “hate” means bias against people or groups with specific characteristics that are defined by the law.

At the federal level, hate crime laws include crimes committed on the basis of the victim’s perceived or actual race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability.“

It is my opinion this shooter’s crime fits the above definition.

ditto

That is your opinion. But I haven't heard any facts that his bias was anything but against the occupation of the victims (which is bad enough).
Whether he killed them because they were Asian or because they worked in an industry he couldn't deal with (because of his own screwed up mind) he deserves the same full punishment. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, "hate" crime or not.

... or because they were of the SEX of being woman which he said contributed to sexual addiction. Per Federal AND Georgia law now.

Folks here may differ from your opinion that a murder is a murder, as many here at Websleuths follow the legalities and the differences in the "levels" of murder and like to discuss the subtleties where many lay persons don't even grasp such differences. That's why I like WS is to discuss such (e.g. 3rd degree, second degree, first degree, hate crime etc.)

 

[gitana1]

That is your opinion. But I haven't heard any facts that his bias was anything but against the occupation of the victims (which is bad enough).
Whether he killed them because they were Asian or because they worked in an industry he couldn't deal with (because of his own screwed up mind) he deserves the same full punishment. I'm sorry but a murder is a murder, "hate" crime or not.

Chosun Ilbo, a top South Korean newspaper, reported Wednesday that the shooter reportedly yelled, “I’m going to kill all Asians!” They cited a surviving witness.

Atlanta shootings put spotlight on surging anti-Asian sentiment in America | KXAN Austin

Many people decry stiffer sentences due to the hate crime designation. Usually, in my experience, they are also people who feel that discrimination in general is “overblown”.

The hate crime designation was created for a reason. If a black guy suddenly went on a spree attacking white people with a hammer, yelling he was going to kill all white people, what would your response be if he was charged with a hate crime enhancement?

Regardless, I’m much more concerned about the reaction by a LE leader to this mass murder and his motives behind his casual remarks about the massacre. That’s where I see the real problem. The ethnic origin of the majority of victims and of the murderer seem to have caused empathy toward the defendant and apathy toward the victims and their families. “Well, he was having a bad day. And this is what he did.”

Just awful, to have LE so confidently and causally downplay the actions of a monster.