GUILTY GA - Antonio Santiago, 13 mos, Brunswick, 21 March 2013 - #2

[Kimberlyd125]

Just saw on my CNN app that Sherry West says LE tested her for gun shot residue.

I can't link it.

Searching for a linkable source now.

Here:

Immediately after the shooting, detectives searched her home for a gun and conducted gun residue tests on both her and the baby's father, West said, adding that the tests were negative and the search did not turn up a gun.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?c=&page=0


ETA: not sure why my link is not working. I copied and pasted directly from the address bar.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Thank you, I wondered about that too but I chalked it up to me having misunderstood the earlier articles.

So both claim to be his attorney or I wonder if one is the 15 year old's attorney and the reporter got it wrong??

Pretty sure you only get one PD per suspect.

Yes, that was my first thought, too--that one of the lawyers belonged to DL. But Pate refers to the photo lineup--which id'd Elkins. And Gough's remark is in paragraph describing his getting ready for Elkins' first court experience.

 

[jjenny]

Attorney Page Pate, who defends criminals charged with serious felonies across Georgia and is not involved with the case, says he's concerned that police used a photo lineup to identify Elkins as a suspect.

okay, he is just their legal talking head for this case. whew. I was mighty confused for a sec/

Seriously? The talking head is concerned about use of photo lineup? What else are they supposed to use? Lineups have been used for years and years to ID suspects.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Article is confusing. Paragraph said report talked to Elkins attorney and then this followed that statement " Attorney Page Pate, who defends criminals charged with serious felonies across Georgia and is not involved with the case"

Attorney Page Pate, who defends criminals charged with serious felonies across Georgia and is not involved with the case, says he's concerned that police used a photo lineup to identify Elkins as a suspect.

okay, he is just their legal talking head for this case. whew. I was mighty confused for a sec/

Thanks for the clarification. I'm thinking the writer of the one article discussing photo lineup may have also been confused; the "1000% sure" quote was attributed to Pate rather than Gough.

 

[tlcya]

Just saw on my CNN app that Sherry West says LE tested her for gun shot residue.

I can't link it.

Searching for a linkable source now.

Here:

Immediately after the shooting, detectives searched her home for a gun and conducted gun residue tests on both her and the baby's father, West said, adding that the tests were negative and the search did not turn up a gun.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/us/georgia-baby-killed/index.html?c=&page=0

I am surprised she did not have GSR on her. I would have expected there to be some on her face (one bullet grazed an ear) and probably on her hands as well if she was attempting CPR (baby shot to face)

But based on some of the stuff I linked in the last thread, the CSIs would probably have been able to determine the causation. depending on the quantity and its exact placement they can often differentiate between casual transfer and blow back.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Maybe this one will work:

http://fox6now.com/2013/03/25/two-georgia-teens-charged-in-murder-of-baby/

Immediately after the shooting, detectives searched her home for a gun and conducted gun residue tests on both her and the baby’s father, West said, adding that the tests were negative and the search did not turn up a gun.

 

[LaborDayRN]

ah, we cross-posted!

lol....guess we were thinking the same thing!

 

[jjenny]

I am surprised she did not have GSR on her. I would have expected there to be some on her face (one bullet grazed an ear) and probably on her hands as well if she was attempting CPR (baby shot to face)

But based on some of the stuff I linked in the last thread, the CSIs would probably have been able to determine the causation. depending on the quantity and its exact placement they can often differentiate between casual transfer and blow back.

I think people vasty overestimate GSR. I believe it's not always found even on those who actually fired a gun.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I am surprised she did not have GSR on her. I would have expected there to be some on her face (one bullet grazed an ear) and probably on her hands as well if she was attempting CPR (baby shot to face)

But based on some of the stuff I linked in the last thread, the CSIs would probably have been able to determine the causation. depending on the quantity and its exact placement they can often differentiate between casual transfer and blow back.

I always thought GSR came from close to the gun.
If he was not really close, I wouldn't think there would be GSR on SW or little Antonio.

 

[Hickory Born]

This raises another question - I thought Elkins' lawyer was Kevin Gough?



Does he have more than one public defender?

Pate is a private defense attorney in Atlanta. The article states he is not affiliated with this case.

I missed that also and had to go back and re-read.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Pate says photo lineups are less reliable when a person from one race is identifying a suspect from another.

"If you have a white person, a Caucasian person trying to identify an African-American teenager, especially, social scientists have done studies and have looked at situations in a controlled environment when they know this is not the right person and yet somebody identifies them," Pate said.

[DL], 15, also had a first court appearance.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/lawyer-questions-lineup-used-identify-teens-charge/nW4DY/

BBM, I can actually agree (to some degree) with this point. I am horrible at guessing AA ages. The AAs I know never seem to look as old as they are. It is something I have joked with them about. "black don't crack" my GF told me once. Still makes me chuckle. I agree cross racial identification can be less reliable.

To me though, all of that is smoke and mirrors. I would be more worried about mistaken identification if it weren't for the fact that the sequence of events states that LE questioned DL and he led them to DE. LE then presented a photo lineup including DE and he was picked out.

IMO the odds of West miraculously picking out the photo of the wrong teen, who also happens to have been identified as the shooter by boy charged as his accomplice are slim to none.

[quote bolded/underlined by me]

I'll have to admit the underlined applies to me, too. I'm bad enough at identifying distinguishing characteristics, but even worse when it's cross-racial. That the studies show that to be a problem doesn't surprise me.

The bolded part made me think a bit. I believe I remember reading that DL's talking to LE is what led them to DE's house to make an arrest. But do we know that DL has fingered him as the triggerman concerning the baby? Or is it just that he was involved in the situation, and also had a gun?

If someone has a link to this, I'd appreciate it, as I've also read that LE has said they 'now know how and where the baby died, and who was responsible.'

 

[tlcya]

brunswick news had an article about the church service for healing that the community held. If you are not a subscriber to the Brunswick news site you cant see the article.

Marina2 was kind enough to link PDFs of the article back in the old thread we just closed, it can be found, quoted by me within the last few pages of that thread.

In that article it says something about LE knows exactly who pulled the trigger. It was in response to a question from reporter regarding family members saying LE have the wrong teen arrested.

We were speculating whether that meant they had video, the gun, or GSR on one of the suspects.

 

[2door73chevy]

I wish she wouldn't go on TV, frankly. The media loves a gore fest, and all this does is stir things up--what possibly could be the point? It's not like it'll help witnesses come forward or solve the case--LE and prosecutors are certain they have their suspects, and have even said they're certain they know who did the shooting (in one article I read).

I'll be honest and say this is one more thing about this case that goes beyond my understanding. There's no way I could be taped for an hour-long national TV show 4 days after viewing my baby's head blown away, even if I wanted to or needed to (for case-solving purposes). Why would producers see a need to put her through that?

She really should not do the interview but I'm SURE the Piers Morgan show is paying her and I'm sure she needs the money to move back to NJ, so I can't say I blame her, I'd want to get the heck out of there too. MOO

 

[tlcya]

here is that post of mine where I quote her links carried over here.

Originally Posted by Marina2
I bet they have a video of the shooting. Quoting Glynn County police chief Matt Doering from The Brunswick News this morning.

"We know who fired the shot, specifically how, where and when the murder occurred, and the role each offender played," Doering said.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Fx...it?usp=sharing (part 1)

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Fx...it?usp=sharing (part 2)

They may even have gunshot residue evidence. All the finger pointing in the world won't help if they have a video.

my response to Marina:

yay NM I figured out I had to sign in to google, duh. I am usually always signed in so I could not figure out why the heck I couldn't get it to load.

Thanks much for these links Marina.

=======

to view the pdfs you must log into your google account I am afraid. It was the only way I could view the PDFs and they are not easily copied. Someone would have to transcribe the text which Marina was kind enough to do for this portion:

"We know who fired the shot, specifically how, where and when the murder occurred, and the role each offender played," Doering said.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I'd really like to know what comes Out as the motive. Police don't seem to be buying the attempted robbery story, since they've mentioned more than once that they are trying to determine the motive.

I wonder if DO knows Sherry, she was by all intents and purposes the getaway driver, once she was tracked down by police she talked to them since a witness saw her leaving the area. It makes me wonder if there is a lot more involvement from others.

Thanks, Kimberly, I think I read that link.

But if they say DL didn't know Elkins, that DL was simply walking down the street and Elkins came running up and threatened him and then DL was simply a witness - in fact a VICTIM - how could DL have ID'd Elkins? The family insists there is no connection between the two boys.

And yet somehow DL knew his name and how to find him.

Curiouser and curiouser.

It could be that DL didn't know his name/where he lived, but was able to ID him from photo lineup same as Sherry did. He wouldn't have had to know his name or address.

Judging by his social media sites, and by the 'alternative school' thing, I get the feeling that DE was already in the system, so photo was already available. After a simple photo id by Sherry and DL, they could easily track down local relatives via school records (even if systen said he was in alternative school as last listed addy in 2011) to confirm where DE might be found now that he was back in town. (He'd only returned 2 months prior.)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

brunswick news had an article about the church service for healing that the community held. If you are not a subscriber to the Brunswick news site you cant see the article.

Marina2 was kind enough to link PDFs of the article back in the old thread we just closed, it can be found, quoted by me within the last few pages of that thread.

In that article it says something about LE knows exactly who pulled the trigger. It was in response to a question from reporter regarding family members saying LE have the wrong teen arrested.

We were speculating whether that meant they had video, the gun, or GSR on one of the suspects.

Yes, that's where I remember reading that who/where/what comment. I just don't remember reading anywhere that LE have id'd DE as the one who pulled the trigger, or having said that DL told them that. Doering only says they know "who fired the shot, specifically how, where and when the murder occurred, and the role each offender played."

That statement leaves the door open, actually, as to which offender pulled the trigger (in sidestepping the question)--and also open is the possibilty, even, that there could be more than two 'offender' roles.

I mean, if DE was observed by an anonymous tipster as crouching down in a car leaving the scene, obviously he wasn't driving, nor was the 15-yr old (they were both said to have been walking). I know the aunt had been quoted as saying she drove them both at one point, too (with him also ducking down)...but she's no longer anonymous---that's been all over the news. Could it be possible that someone else drove a getaway car from the scene (possibly parked out of sight around the corner) to ensure DE wasn't caught (and maybe exchanging murder weapon for a clean gun)? With gang activity, I wouldn't be surprised if more than one legal-aged adult were involved.

 

[Hickory Born]

Elkins' attorney says more. I totally disagree.

He said, "It does seem odd that the young man who was determined to take a purse and the contents of a purse would shoot a 13-month-old child once in the head, and shoot at the mother several times, and yet the purse was never taken."

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/conten...suspects-in-court/MQDqFKT4Jkidkb9ynP4eMg.cspx

I should have included why I disagree. There were 3 gunshots. These boys knew someone would hear them and had to get the Hell out of Dodge before someone came outside. No time to steal a purse then.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Elkins' attorney says more. I totally disagree.

He said, "It does seem odd that the young man who was determined to take a purse and the contents of a purse would shoot a 13-month-old child once in the head, and shoot at the mother several times, and yet the purse was never taken."

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/conten...suspects-in-court/MQDqFKT4Jkidkb9ynP4eMg.cspx

To be frank, it does seem odd to me, too. I believe this is why LE is still looking for motive. I think if they get motive, it should break the case wide open.

 

[Hickory Born]

Yes, that's where I remember reading that who/where/what comment. I just don't remember reading anywhere that LE have id'd DE as the one who pulled the trigger, or having said that DL told them that. Doering only says they know "who fired the shot, specifically how, where and when the murder occurred, and the role each offender played."

That statement leaves the door open, actually, as to which offender puled the trigger (in sidestepping the question)--and also open is the possibilty, even, that there could be more than two 'offender' roles.

I mean, if DE was observed by an anonymous tipster as crouching down in a car leaving the scene, obviously he wasn't driving, nor was the 15-yr old (they were both said to have been walking). I know the aunt had been quoted as saying she drove them both at one point, too (with him also ducking down)...but she's no longer anonymous---that's been all over the news. Could it be possible that someone else drove a getaway car from the scene to ensure DE wasn't caught (maybe even took the gun)? With gang activity, I wouldn't be surprised if more than one legal-aged adult were involved.

It was my understanding the 2 boys went to the house of the aunt's mother. That is where DE got in the car, hid in the backseat and the aunt took him somewhere.

It has been reported that DL, the 15 yr old, lived near the scene of the shooting. Do I dare guess that he lived with the aunt's mother? Could the aunt's mother possibly be the grandmother that was soooo verbal on TV today? IDK

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I should have included why I disagree. There were 3 gunshots. These boys knew someone would hear them and had to get the Hell out of Dodge before someone came outside. No time to steal a purse then.

Good thought. Also good reason to have a getaway car waiting... ;D