GA - Caliyah McNabb, 15 days, Newton County, 7 Oct 2017 *Arrests*

[agilbe]

Aw, I am so so sorry that you and your children have to deal with such a nightmare. :candle: :grouphug:


The courts these days are leaning heavily towards the sentiment that " being a parent is a fundamental right."

I am sorry, but I think that a parent gives up that right, once they sexually or physically abuse their child, or any child. If you decide to rape a child, you should not count on retaining your 'rights' as a father. JMO

I agree!!

 

[cluciano63]

I don't know why having children is a basic right. Just because humans can do something does not mean they should do it. I think I always knew I was not cut out for having kids so I didn't. And have never regretted it. There should be some kind of basic tests or something...jmo

 

[MsMarple]

If LE arrests CM for abuse and CB still has to live with him, she is MORE at risk when he bonds out. DV charges do not lead to long jail terms... When he returns to the home, she is at a GREATER risk of violence. DV must be reported by the victim and she has to be ready to leave to safety. Women in physically abusive situations are generally also emotionally abused and feel like no one else would want them - the self esteem takes a beating as well. Getting someone out of a DV environment is very tricky if they are not ready to leave.


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I get what you're saying and it's horrible that more isn't done to help the victim to understand that she cannot remain in the abusive relationship. It's even more heartbreaking when it involves innocent children.

Are we sure either 911 call officially involved DV? The first call was filed under "property damage" and the second was "custodial interference" by the grandparents. I'm uncomfortable assuming they were DV calls without more information.

After finding and reading the link in my followup post I now see that CB's parents didn't know about the abuse until after Caliyah went missing. So what prompted CB's parents to try and take the children on October 3? It must have been awful for the older girl; the report said CB was able to get her out of the car but not Caliyah. Was there a scuffle? Why didn't the parents call CPS if they felt the kids needed to be removed from the home?

To be clear - I'm not saying CB wasn't abused - she told LE she was and LE stated they take her claim seriously and are investigating.

 

[Peppery]

I keep seeing domestic violence discussed but can’t find confirmation. Are there any DV charges or arrests for CM or are we to take CB’s fathers word as confirmation?

 

[beatrixpotter]

I don't know why having children is a basic right. Just because humans can do something does not mean they should do it. I think I always knew I was not cut out for having kids so I didn't. And have never regretted it. There should be some kind of basic tests or something...jmo

If only everyone made wise decisions for themselves. I definitely think more people should choose to not have children if they aren't willing to do their utmost to love and provide for them or if it's simply not the best choice for them. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the rights of all should be restricted and controlled (presumably by government?) all because there are a minority of losers out there who abuse their kids.

It's unfortunate that more people don't intervene sooner to help protect more children though. I just saw a news article today of a woman who left her 3, 2 and 1 yo home alone for MANY hours. The 2 yo and 1 yo ended up dead. AND the neighbor said the woman left her kids home alone ALL the time. So why didn't she report this? She knew someone was flat out neglecting and abusing small children and now they are dead.

 

[MsMarple]

I keep seeing domestic violence discussed but can’t find confirmation. Are there any DV charges or arrests for CM or are we to take CB’s fathers word as confirmation?

Caliyah's mother CB has also stated to LE that she was abused by CM so it's not just her dad making the claim. LE is investigating. I haven't seen any DV charges for CM but as we all know that doesn't mean a whole lot.

I am however questioning the nature of the two 911 call reports released by msm. I can't find confirmation that either was a DV call. It doesn't mean I don't believe CB - as a victim there's no reason for her to lie to LE. I just want to be sure about those calls before thnking this case is only about DV. Remember, CM planned Caliyah's murder according to LE - I think there's a whole lot more to the story. MOO.

 

[TXNurse77]

If only everyone made wise decisions for themselves. I definitely think more people should choose to not have children if they aren't willing to do their utmost to love and provide for them or if it's simply not the best choice for them. But I wholeheartedly disagree that the rights of all should be restricted and controlled (presumably by government?) all because there are a minority of losers out there who abuse their kids.

RSBM...

The problem is that many people feel like they are loving and providing for their children... unfortunately, many people are just doing what they know how to do from their own upbringing and environment. Also, people make decisions that they believe to be normal/standard that others would not see that way.

For instance - a mom leaves her small kids at home and run to the store to get formula because they don’t have a vehicle to safely transport the kids and baby needs milk. In her mind at that moment, feeding baby is important and driving them unsafely in the car is more dangerous than leaving them at home... she is gone 15 minutes, what could go wrong... then later she’s on the news because the oldest set the house on fire... Many don’t have kiddos planning on abusing and neglecting them... a little empathy goes a long ways... (not really directed at this case specifically, but a general judgemental tone than runs rampant on these threads)


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[i8mypaint]

From what I understand the cousin lives in the same park. If they practically lived next to each other then IMO it's not much different from me going to my daughters' homes to help out with their newborns .

In the second call grandfather TB didn't want the children returned to CM's home. The earlier call occurred when CB was very pregnant. If these were due to DV on CM's part why didn't LE arrest him either time? Why didn't TB explain to the officers why he tried to take the children? Why was the first call filed as property damage?

To be clear I'm not accusing anyone other than CM of anything - I'm trying to understand why LE didn't intervene either time. And yes I get that CB may have been too frightened to say anything and maybe was forced to get the kids away from her dad but apparentlyTB was frightened for his daughter and granddaughters. Wouldn't he have said something to LE? If he did tell the officers CM was abusing CB and maybe the kids too would that have been enough to arrest CM or at least call CPS?

IMO red flags were flying everywhere. It's heartbreaking that LE didn't (or couldn't) act either time.

Again as a DV survivor... the police came to my home many times. One time I ran out the back door with my daughter as they were at the front door and got in the car and left. I was scared. I was scared that if I told the police he would kill me. The night I ran out the back, he almost did kill me and I still ran and came back the next day. There were many threats, to me, he said he would kill me and my daughter if I told anyone... most DV cases they *may get jail time, and when they get out is what scares the hell out of you.

God I wish I knew then what I know now... I am sure CB does too.


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[rsd1200]

From what I understand the cousin lives in the same park. If they practically lived next to each other then IMO it's not much different from me going to my daughters' homes to help out with their newborns .

In the second call grandfather TB didn't want the children returned to CM's home. The earlier call occurred when CB was very pregnant. If these were due to DV on CM's part why didn't LE arrest him either time? Why didn't TB explain to the officers why he tried to take the children? Why was the first call filed as property damage?

To be clear I'm not accusing anyone other than CM of anything - I'm trying to understand why LE didn't intervene either time. And yes I get that CB may have been too frightened to say anything and maybe was forced to get the kids away from her dad but apparentlyTB was frightened for his daughter and granddaughters. Wouldn't he have said something to LE? If he did tell the officers CM was abusing CB and maybe the kids too would that have been enough to arrest CM or at least call CPS?

IMO red flags were flying everywhere. It's heartbreaking that LE didn't (or couldn't) act either time.

BBM
Her father reporting it, unless there were marks on the children, really would have done no good. CB would have had to have agreed to press charges and give LE evidence. Had CB's father seen evidence of abuse on the children, he absolutely could have call CPS and had them come to the home to make a report. Iirc, I read that mom was surprised that LE arrested CM (cannot find link though). More than likely CM had her convinced that LE would not be able to arrest him, and, if they did, he'd be out in no time. If CM convinced her of either of those things, then what was CB to think? If she filed charges and they didn't arrest him, or If they did arrest him, and he got out on probation/parole, after a period of time, she figures she is in a lose/lose situation. He likely had her convinced she'd be a dead woman either way and probably threatened the life of their older daughter. They can slap him with a restraining order but that piece of paper is useless when dealing with someone like McNabb.

 

[FlossyMay]

I would really hate for anyone who suffers from DV to read these comments and think there is no way out. That's just not true. A quick google will show you a list of agencies that will help women get out of these situations. LEO is your friend. Report and document. Get restraining orders. Go to shelters. Whatever it takes...do it. Never think you have to live with this because you most certainly do not and neither do your children.

 

[Jennifer17]

BBM
Her father reporting it, unless there were marks on the children, really would have done no good. CB would have had to have agreed to press charges and give LE evidence. Had CB's father seen evidence of abuse on the children, he absolutely could have call CPS and had them come to the home to make a report. Iirc, I read that mom was surprised that LE arrested CM (cannot find link though). More than likely CM had her convinced that LE would not be able to arrest him, and, if they did, he'd be out in no time. If CM convinced her of either of those things, then what was CB to think? If she filed charges and they didn't arrest him, or If they did arrest him, and he got out on probation/parole, after a period of time, she figures she is in a lose/lose situation. He likely had her convinced she'd be a dead woman either way and probably threatened the life of their older daughter. They can slap him with a restraining order but that piece of paper is useless when dealing with someone like McNabb.

f

Yes, and he proved that he would kill if it suited him.

 

[Jennifer17]

I would really hate for anyone who suffers from DV to read these comments and think there is no way out. That's just not true. A quick google will show you a list of agencies that will help women get out of these situations. LEO is your friend. Report and document. Get restraining orders. Go to shelters. Whatever it takes...do it. Never think you have to live with this because you most certainly do not and neither do your children.

Easier said than done, though, when you are a very young woman, who thinks that things may get better. I am sure that she would have had enough one day and taken advantage of those services, but she is so young, with two children.

 

[i8mypaint]

I would really hate for anyone who suffers from DV to read these comments and think there is no way out. That's just not true. A quick google will show you a list of agencies that will help women get out of these situations. LEO is your friend. Report and document. Get restraining orders. Go to shelters. Whatever it takes...do it. Never think you have to live with this because you most certainly do not and neither do your children.

I got out!! It’s just hard to leave. Women’s shelters are an amazing thing. Some women stay there, I was truly blessed by a great boss and company who payed my rent for a year, payed for individual therapy for 2 years. So I was very very lucky.


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[rsd1200]

Now I'm confused about the second 911 call on October 3 where TB [correcting myself, the police report says parents] tried to take both of the children. He said they didn't know about the abuse until Sunday. I mistakenly thought they knew all along. So what happened on October 3?



http://www.11alive.com/news/he-was-...ther-describes-babys-alleged-killer/482681441
https://www.covnews.com/news/crime/breaking-ncso-investigating-missing-baby/

BBM

It appears that Mom called LE at 5:58 p.m. on October the 3rd. They have the contact listed as Courtney Dale. I think they just misunderstood her last name, and they have a phone number listed. (Bell and Dale do sound similar, especially if you have an accent and may be talking fast. I have to repeat words/spell them, for folks, and my accent is not as bad as some.)

It says that the complainant (Mom) is standing by at 1**7 W***Lawn Dr. Lot 31, and advised that she let her two y/o daughter and newborn, spend the night, w/her cousin, at Eagle Point MHP.

Complainant, CB, said that her parents picked the kids up, and took them, w/o her permission. CB was able to get the two year old child out of the car, but, her parents did take the newborn to 65 L***don Dr. (this is 15 miles away)

LE then got a call from TB, the grandfather, and it lists his phone number, and the address as 65 L**don Dr., in ref to having one of the children.

Note: CM's arrest for probation violation on 4/6/2017, lists his address as 65 L**don Dr.

Link to October 3rd, 2017, 911 call.

https://www.covnews.com/documents/345/Custodial_Int_12145_GA_Hwy_36__CAD_100317.pdf

 

[cvaldez1975]

I believe It’s stated that he had planned on murdering the baby ☹️


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The premeditation could have been in the moment. As in he became angry and got the baby and left the house and did what he did. He could have snapped and stormed out.


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[rsd1200]

RSBM...

The problem is that many people feel like they are loving and providing for their children... unfortunately, many people are just doing what they know how to do from their own upbringing and environment. Also, people make decisions that they believe to be normal/standard that others would not see that way.

For instance - a mom leaves her small kids at home and run to the store to get formula because they don’t have a vehicle to safely transport the kids and baby needs milk. In her mind at that moment, feeding baby is important and driving them unsafely in the car is more dangerous than leaving them at home... she is gone 15 minutes, what could go wrong... then later she’s on the news because the oldest set the house on fire... Many don’t have kiddos planning on abusing and neglecting them... a little empathy goes a long ways... (not really directed at this case specifically, but a general judgemental tone than runs rampant on these threads)


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Well said.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Aw, I am so so sorry that you and your children have to deal with such a nightmare. :candle: :grouphug:


The courts these days are leaning heavily towards the sentiment that " being a parent is a fundamental right."

I am sorry, but I think that a parent gives up that right, once they sexually or physically abuse their child, or any child. If you decide to rape a child, you should not count on retaining your 'rights' as a father. JMO

Agreed!!!! [emoji30][emoji177]


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[katydid23]

The premeditation could have been in the moment. As in he became angry and got the baby and left the house and did what he did. He could have snapped and stormed out.


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I agree. if he took the baby with intent like that.

 

[Jennifer17]

I agree. if he took the baby with intent like that.

I don't agree with the snapping thing. It seems like an excuse to me. He was an ok person, he just snapped and killed a 15 day old infant? Who snaps like that? She was crying? Snap. She wouldn't drink her milk? Snap.

 

[rsd1200]

I would really hate for anyone who suffers from DV to read these comments and think there is no way out. That's just not true. A quick google will show you a list of agencies that will help women get out of these situations. LEO is your friend. Report and document. Get restraining orders. Go to shelters. Whatever it takes...do it. Never think you have to live with this because you most certainly do not and neither do your children.

It's not that simple. If only it were. Not meaning this in a snarky way, at all, but Restraining Orders are not worth the paper they are written on when one is married, or living with, an abusive person. The first on the list, in the link below, Leaving Can be Dangerous, is very, very, true.

Why it is so difficult to leave.
http://www.womenagainstabuse.org/education-resources/learn-about-abuse/why-its-so-difficult-to-leave