GA GA - Carlene Tengelsen, 16, Macon, 21 June 1972

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I either didn't know or had forgotten Arnelle had passed. I notice in the mother's obituary Carlene is listed as having predeceased her. After this many years, I'm sure the family has come to terms with the fact that Carlene almost certainly left this world the day she disappeared, but I wish the remaining family members knew who was responsible (and could see him punished by law) and could have her remains to bury with their parents and Arnelle.
 
Still puzzling over why the perpetrator drove the car back to the mall & the only conclusion I come up with is that he had to. Somebody like a psychopath might be brazen enough to drive the car back & park it at the mall just to taunt the family or police, but the risk of discovery would be pretty high. So now I'm thinking one of two scenarios: 1. His own vehicle was still parked at or near the mall & he had to return for it, especially as its continued presence nearby where Carlene disappeared might have caused police to run his tags & maybe want to question him. 2. The scene where he murdered Carlene & left her body was so far out from town that walking back would be difficult and/or take too long for him to get back home. In this case it would appear he lived in or near the area.

Both these scenarios to me imply more of a local person being the perpetrator, though not necessarily in the case of his car being parked near the mall. I also feel it makes it more likely that he was a grown man, not a teenage boy from school who might have been obsessed with Carlene. The reason being, if he had the use of his own car, he was more likely a grown man in that he evidently had the car all afternoon & late into the night. A young teen boy may or may not have been allowed that much freedom & someone likely could have been looking for him before Carlene's car reappeared at 1:30am. I don't know how much freedom teenage boys were given in the 70s. I was just 2 years old when this happened. Also, the fact that the police claimed to have found no fingerprints or evidence of interest on Carlene's vehicle shows he was thinking ahead. It sounds as if the perpetrator either wiped every surface his hands had touched or else had worn gloves to abduct Carlene. This shows maturity & pre-planning. Wearing gloves on that June day with temps in the 90s would have looked fairly suspicious unless he kept his hands in his pockets, so I'm leaning towards him wiping the surfaces he touched in the car.

If he was a local, I think taking a hard look at adult male aquaintances, neighbors & possibly employees at the mall or even Carlene's school would have been a good place to start. The more I think about this case, I am leaning toward a more mature individual than a young man she might have known. He could either have been someone who knew her, someone who knew her only casually or just by sight in the area, or someone who was a predator & was lurking around in search of a victim. If he was a person known in the community, I would think he might have been afraid of being seen when he probably approached Carlene at her vehicle in broad daylight in the parking lot in case somebody remembered it after her disappearance. I'm thinking whoever did this got to her as she was getting back in her car at the mall, since some boys claimed they saw her at the mall. Plus, if she wasn't abducted from the mall, how else would the abductor know to bring her car back to the mall where she was last seen? So he either moved up close to her as she was getting into her car & pulled a weapon & carjacked her, or else he was somebody known to her who she felt she could trust. An adult authority figure known to her might have been able to get her to let them in her car.

Also I keep thinking about serial killer Gerard Schaefer. Do we know whether he killed outside of the state of Florida? This doesn't exactly jive with his M.O. in some ways, but he was active during the 70s I believe & I think he claimed to have killed girls in other states.

Still puzzling... any insights or suggestions are greatly welcomed!

Debardeleben would have been savvy enough to wipe down the vehicle. He was involved in crimes at malls, and was a prolific and skilled killer. Known to be in the East Coast in the 1970s.
 
From the get go this is who I thought did it! He was passing counterfeit bills at the mall around the same time plus he was a junk food addict which explains why the car was parked near the Krispy Keene doughnut store.

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Debardeleben used ruses; ruses that could fool a teenager. IMO he was the type to ask a female if he could tape record her, or perhaps take photos of her. Would Carlene willingly go with an attractive gentlemen who was offering a career as a model? It is hard to know what actually happened that warm June evening, but it likely happened in public, I agree with dogperson that Carlene was abducted in the mall parking lot. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Carlene allegedly leave a the note at her boyfriend's car? She could have turned her back to put the note in place and it could have happened just as quick as that. My opinion. I also agree that this perpetrator was experienced. They may have had a rape kit, or duct tape, imo. I just think that malls in those days were prime hunting grounds for predators. If you think about it, there were all those cars there, and lots of young women, and they just had to get the girl in the vehicle with them.
 
Times were very different then. A teen girl would probably not be frightened if a harmless-appearing young man approached her in broad daylight.

Of the known perpetrators, I think two good suspects are Debardeleben or Paul John Knowles.

I agree that this was probably done by an adult male, either with experience or who happened to be incredibly lucky that he was not caught. If one of her schoolmates did this, I would almost expect him to have said or done something suspicious around that time. A teen male may not have been able to keep quiet about it or cover his tracks.
 
dogperson, there was a reporter for The Macon Telegraph, Randall Savage, who intensively covered much of the Paul John Knowles story (1974). Not sure whether he was with that paper in 1972 when Carlene disappeared, but I just bet that he heard things about her case. As recently as this past election, Mr. Savage was still doing the occasional guest spot on Macon's 13WMAZ television news, with political commentary and interviews..

During our earlier discussions about whether Knowles might have been involved in Carlene's disappearance, I did a lot of digging and had always intended to bring some of what I found back here in-depth, but it is complex and confusing (there are conflicting reports about some things in various sources) and I just kept waiting "until" I could fill in some missing information about Knowles

Right now, I have just lost my own mother (she passed away in October) after about 7 years of being her caregiver, and I am going through a very serious depression, so I just am not able right now to follow up on this and thought maybe someone else who has followed this case might like to.

Here's a few items:

.Never could determine for sure whether Knowles could have been in Macon at the time of Carlene's disappearance. He was popping in and out of jail a lot, if I remember correctly, during that time. If he was incarcerated, well, that rules him out...but I have never been able to determine for sure. If, however, he was NOT behind bars...

Knowles had a girlfriend in Macon. In fact, according to a "years later" interview that Randall Savage did, they actually married at one point but she had the marriage annulled. IIRC, she actually first met him in Florida, while she was married to someone else...I do not recall offhand what year that was. I believe she was living in Florida at the time and I do not know WHEN she came to Macon (or possibly came BACK to Macon, as I also do not recall whether she had already lived in Macon). What I DO know is that she was living in Macon during 1974, because Knowles gave her some "gifts" that turned out later to have come from some of his victims. As I understand, she and Knowles weren't exactly "together" at that time but he would "drop in". So we do know that Knowles spent time in Macon, off and on, and probably knew the area rather well.

Where did the girlfriend live and what restaurant did she work at?
This is information that I bet Mr. Savage could supply -- he covered the case very intensely and interviewed her both at the time and in later years. I brought the girlfriend's name to this thread once before, but I decided to ask to have it removed (which it was) because I believe she truly did not know what was going on with Knowles. IF Knowles was not incarcerated in June 1972, and especially IF the girlfriend lived and or worked (she was a waitress) in the vicinity of Westgate, I think Knowles is certainly a possibility. (He could have been visiting her and going about the area on foot or may have had his own car, or he could have even borrowed her car with the agreement he would pick her up after work, some scenario like that.)

Something that has really intrigued me:
Anybody who has looked at the Knowles case at all knows that he made tapes about his murders, and other matters; they became very controversial and infamous during the legal proceedings that followed his capture. Some feel he included ALL of his murders, that he was strictly a "spree" killer and recounted them all... and he did express a wish to "claim" all his victims, for a wanted notoriety. But it certainly seems possible there MAY have been earlier murders that he did not claim, for various possible reasons. There ARE reports that on at least one occasion he gave an indication that there were "more" than on the tapes -- but whether those reports are accurate, or whether if they are he was telling the truth...well, who knows.

Anyhow, though he had at least two different tape recorders along the way, one of them, the "main" one I think, he apparently bought in Macon during the 1974 spree -- a store clerk identified him as doing so. Some accounts say the store was in downtown Macon, but some say it was at the Zayre store -- which was located in the shopping center down the hill and to the west of Westgate, which ALSO was where the grocery store where Carlene's boyfriend worked was located, I'm pretty sure. That purchase was in 1974, two years after Carlene's disappearance, of course -- but if that purchase WAS at Zayre, it is another indication that he did know that area to some degree.

Maybe someone can see where I'm going with this rambling and maybe contact Mr. Savage to see if he can provide that CRUCIAL info about whether Knowles was behind bars on the VERY DAY that Carlene disappeared ... and if he WASN'T, to see if we can find out the answers to some of the other questions I've brought up.

Is anyone who is good on the phone willing to contact Mr. Savage? I am not the best candidate for this task.
 
Is anyone who is good on the phone willing to contact Mr. Savage? I am not the best candidate for this task.

I'm not a phone person, either. I think emailing him might work, too. If no one else wants to right now, I will try to do this when I get to feeling better.
 
I was just coming here to post that Joan had passed. Arnelle was my mom and passed in late 2014 from cancer. Meme(Joan) passed on Dec 28. We had just seen her Christmas Eve. One of my friends texted me an article that was posted on the Macon telegraph earlier today.
 
I was just coming here to post that Joan had passed. Arnelle was my mom and passed in late 2014 from cancer. Meme(Joan) passed on Dec 28. We had just seen her Christmas Eve. One of my friends texted me an article that was posted on the Macon telegraph earlier today.

I am so sorry for the losses your family has endured.
 
Here is the article, I believe:

With daughter’s vanishing a mystery, mother’s death is sad reminder of lost teen


In the summer of 1972, when Joan Sessions Tengelsen was 39, her daughter Carlene disappeared from the Westgate Mall. ...



more at: http://www.macon.com/news/local/article127226894.html

I have to keep a little hope that this article might spur something -- interest, a memory, a new look from LE -- that might lead to some resolution in Carlene's case.


 
It is hard to imagine how things have changes in regard to missing children and crime against children in general. Today, the disappearance of an attractive 16 year old white girl from a "good" part of town would be a huge story locally and would go National in a few days. At the time, before the advent of cable television and the internet; before the term "serial killer" or "sexual predator" had entered the American lexicon, the disappearance of a 16 year old girl was assumed to be a probable runaway or otherwise something to do with the "bad behavior" that was associated with teenagers at the time.

It sounds like there was no real investigation. The trail was ice cold before the local PD figured out she wasn't a runaway. This was too bad because, in spite of the fact that there were known serial killers who passed through the area, I would bet it was some local kid she knew from school who talked her into giving him a ride
 
Missing 45 years this month and still no answers.
I wish someone who knew her from school would find their way to this thread. Maybe there were rumors or some talk around town about what might have happened.
 
There were rumors that because she was dating a black man some teens didn't like that. I personally don't believe it. Not that it's not impossible believe me I live in Georgia. But I really believe MD killed her. I so want to find her😔 I think most of her family are gone now😔 but as long as I live I will never forget her!

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She was said to have been very in love with her boyfriend (who was white) so I doubt she was seeing anyone else. She was friends with the black kids at the high school and that might not have gone over very well. Someone could have started the rumor about the black boyfriend just for spite, because in those days in the south that would have gotten her ostracized by some people.

I think she just happened to be at the mall when the guy who took her was also there. She was probably not paying a lot of attention to her surroundings as she walked back to her car since it was daytime. No one expects to be kidnapped in the middle of the day in public. Plus the excitement of driving alone for the first time was probably on her mind. If a man approached her she would not have felt threatened until it was too late.
 
I wish ID would do a Disappeared episode for Carlene. I know it is an older cold base, but I think there is a good chance it could be solved.
 

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