GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023 #2

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In Georgia, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis will sketch the first substantive evidentiary arguments in any of the cases facing Trump in a hearing on ex-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows’ bid to get his state case moved to federal court.

At the same time in Washington, Judge Tanya Chutkan will hold a status hearing to consider dueling arguments by special counsel Jack Smith and Trump’s defense team over the date for a trial in the federal investigation into Trump’s alleged attempt to prevent now-President Joe Biden from taking office.

Smith wants the trial to begin January 2 – two weeks before Trump’s first big test in the 2024 primary race in the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses. The ex-president’s team has asked for much more time, and is proposing a date of April 2026. Trump is not expected to be at the hearing.
As I see it, the Trump team proposing a date of April 2026, makes them look really bad. They need 2 and a half years to mount a proper defense? It seems like they're doing this so he can play the victim card again.
 
As I see it, the Trump team proposing a date of April 2026, makes them look really bad. They need 2 and a half years to mount a proper defense? It seems like they're doing this so he can play the victim card again.
BBM

”So he can play the victim card again.” I’ve been trying to figure out how to introduce this important article to the thread and you just gave it to me. Thank you!

I’ll provide a TL;DR summary of this lengtny article, but it's definitely worth reading to understand Trump and his base and why logic does not make a dent. IMO It’s because Trump’s appeal is about deeply held feelings, and that makes him extremely powerful.

Summary: Essentially, Trump views himself as a victim and he has skillfully tapped into the angry victimhood of Americans who feel they have fallen behind economically and are the real victims of discrimination. His indictments are his latest victimhood and “they are coming after you.”


Quotes from the link:
Former President Donald Trump has solidified his lead in the GOP race by convincing most Republican voters to view his four criminal indictments as a politicized “witch hunt” aimed not only at him, but them.

Trump’s success in selling that argument to GOP voters has some immediate causes, key among them the choice by all of his leading competitors in the race, as well as most prominent voices in conservative media, to echo rather than challenge his contention. But the inclination of so many Republican voters to dismiss all of the charges accumulating against Trump also reflects something much more fundamental: the hardening tendency of conservatives to believe that they are the real victims of bias in a society irreversibly growing more racially and culturally diverse.
BBM
From the outset of Trump’s political career, he has channeled that sentiment into his seemingly unbreakable bond with his core supporters. Now, Trump has transformed his multiple indictments – particularly from Black prosecutors he has repeatedly called “racist” – into just the latest proof point for the widespread belief within the GOP base that the biggest victims of discrimination are the groups most of them belong to: Christians, men and Whites.

“Victimhood is embedded in every part of Trump’s campaign, personality, communications, and strategy,” says Tresa Undem, a pollster for progressive causes. “The only thing that shifts is the topic and the object of blame.”

BBM

The choice by most GOP leaders and voters alike to rally around Trump amid 91 felony charges underscores again how much protection that sense of victimhood provides him against behavior previously considered fatal for any political leader. But, as this week’s debate will almost certainly demonstrate, it also shows that Trump’s belligerent approach toward all the forces he says are threatening conservatives – from the “deep state” to the media and entertainment industry, to protesters in the Black Lives Matter and #metoo movements – will remain central to the GOP message, whether he stays the party’s principal figure or not.

The broad rejection of the charges against Trump within the GOP base marks a milestone not only in its personal allegiance to him, but also in those voters’ systemic alienation from the major institutions in American life. In the Republican coalition, it is a moment that has culminated decades of change – and one that points to years of turbulence ahead.
<snip>

And he has said that those investigating him are really attempting to silence and sublimate his supporters: “They’re coming after you — and I’m just standing in their way,” he’s frequently asserted.

In that way, Undem and others see Trump’s response to the indictments as merely extending the arguments that have proven so compelling to his supporters from the outset of his career.

Trump’s portrayal of conservatives as the real victims of bias “is intoxicating for his base,” she says. “Issues that have arisen in the past seven years related to race and gender (George Floyd, #MeToo) are very uncomfortable. People don’t like to feel discomfort. They don’t like feeling blamed or at fault. Trump cures those feelings. He’s the magician who makes their discomfort disappear and then gives them something to be angry and righteous about, which makes them feel superior. It’s not their fault, it’s someone else’s.”
<snip>

The widespread dismissal of Trump’s indictments, like the preponderant Republican agreement with his discredited claims of fraud in 2020 and the growing tendency of GOP partisans to defend the January 6 riot as legitimate protest, makes clear just how many conservative voters consider themselves under siege in a changing America. When Trump and other elected GOP officials assert that he cannot receive a fair trial in any jurisdiction that mostly votes Democratic, they are expressing what might be called a form of “soft secession” – the conviction that all the institutions tied to blue America are so hostile and malevolent that conservatives must fundamentally deny their legitimacy.
BBM
 
As I see it, the Trump team proposing a date of April 2026, makes them look really bad. They need 2 and a half years to mount a proper defense? It seems like they're doing this so he can play the victim card again.
They are doing it so he can run for president, I believe. Run with one less obstacle.
 
According to this, Eastman‘s legal goose may be cooked along with others‘ including Trump’s.


At a critical hearing last week in the California bar proceedings, designated legal expert Matthew A. Seligman submitted a 91-page report, which I have obtained from the state bar, that strips away any “colorable,” or legally plausible, defense that Eastman was acting in good faith in rendering advice to the now four-times-indicted former president Donald Trump.

This report has serious ramifications for Eastman’s professional licensure and his defense in Georgia. Moreover, his co-defendant and co-counsel in the alleged legal scheme, Kenneth Chesebro, who has employed many of the same excuses as Eastman, might be in serious jeopardy in his Oct. 23 trial. (Another lawyer, Sidney Powell, also requested a speedy trial.)
 
Following up on my earlier post about Trump’s victimhood, I ran across this interesting interview with Ruth Ben-Ghiat discussing her book “Strongmen—Mussolini to the Present.” This victimhood creates such a strong emotional tie between Trump and his followers that they are willing to overlook behavior that they might normally reject, which is why they are still supporting him through the indictments. I just think it’s really an important point to understand.

Your book also argues that a key part of the strongman persona is being a victim. Given virility and masculinity are key too, why would a strongman need to portray himself as a victim?​

I’m glad you brought that up. If you see a new politician on the rise and want to know if this person has authoritarian leanings and could become a strongman, watch to see if he portrays himself as a victim. The cult of victimhood is a fundamental part of the strongman. And Mussolini started it off. They don’t represent their people like democratic politicians. They embody the people. They inhabit the people. They are the bearer of the people’s humiliations their sorrows. Hitler did this expertly and that’s why, people felt, in his speeches, he was screaming out the pain that all of Germany felt. He was embodying Germany’s victimhood. The most successful strongmen have all known how to do this.

The term witch hunt that Trump uses was also used by Berlusconi; it’s also used by [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan. It’s very successful at getting people to feel protective of them. On one hand, these macho men are constantly portraying themselves as strong and alpha male, but through the victimhood thing, they try to appeal to people’s care for them, and people feel very protective of them.
 
Updated: 8/29/23:

GA - Violations of Georgia election laws. 19 defendants. Trump has been charged with 13 criminal counts, including:
Violation of the Georgia RICO Act
Solicitation of violation of oath by public officer
Conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer
• Solicitation of violation of oath by public officer
Conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree
Conspiracy to commit false statements and writings
Conspiracy to commit filing false documents
False statements and writings
Filing false documents
Thursday, 8/31/23 – First appearance hearing for all.
Tuesday, 9/6/23 – Arraignment for all
Monday, 9/18/23 – Judge to hear motion (State of Fed court) re Jeffery Clark.
Monday, 10/23/23 – NEW proposed trial date re Speedy Trial motions by Cheesebro
Monday, 12/11/23 – Motions Hearing
Monday - 2/20/24 – Final Pretrial Conference Hearing
Monday, 3/4/24 – Proposed trial date DC case will begin then.
 
They are doing it so he can run for president, I believe. Run with one less obstacle.
I think that's backwards...he's running for president to avoid being held legally accountable and attempting to use his campaign as reasoning for the inability to make court appearances and participate in his defense.

Trump has a decades long history of stalling and delaying court proceedings for as long as he could - many times in lawsuits against him because a contractor or employee would often run out of funds to pursue a claim for payment and be forced to drop the case. And I mean, it's defense law school 101 - you try to buy as much time as possible - witnesses die, memories fade, etc.

Trump announced his candidacy WAY early because his team believed, obviously erroneously, no prosecutor would indict a presidential candidate. And if he wins, he's able to make these cases go away.

Donald Trump “has to” announce a campaign for the Republican presidential nomination in 2024 in the next two weeks, according to a senior source close to Trump, if the former president wants to head off being indicted under the Espionage Act after the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago last week.
In communications reviewed by the Guardian, the source indicated Trump needed to announce because politically it would be harder for the US Department of Justice (DoJ) to indict a candidate for office than a former president out of the electoral running.

And I already said it in the DC thread during the hearing but his attorneys got way too freaking greedy - Chutkan gave them multiple chances to change the date requested and Lauro remained firm. What they were asking for (April 2026) was in absolutely no way reasonable and it LOOKED like a delay tactic. I think had they asked for June or July next year they probably would have gotten it. All JMO
 
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Trump announced his candidacy WAY early because his team believed, obviously erroneously, no prosecutor would indict a presidential candidate. And if he wins, he's able to make these cases go away.
snipped

100% agree.

This candidacy is about:
* avoiding legal issues
* fund-raising to pay for legal issues

But his fans are convinced the candidacy is "for them."

jmo
 
I think Meadows actually did real, possibly insurmountable, damage yesterday. I don't think he wins the removal bid and his testimony is going to come back to haunt him at his own trial. He didn't recall things he likely should have; asserted he didn't know Trump was contesting election results in some states; undermined his own arguments several times on the stand including that he wasn't really able to prove his actions were tied to his role as a federal employee rather than campaigning which was illegal for him to participate in.

Raffensperger dealt a death blow by saying that now infamous phone call was political and that the office of the president plays no role in voter certification in the state.

Meadows has more criminal exposure than Trump, imo, so I think he's going to be looking to cut a deal with the DA sooner rather than later.

Could well be wrong but JMO.
 
AUG 29, 2023
[...]

“As Republicans, that dashboard is going off with lights and bells and whistles, telling us all the warning things we need to know,” Geoff Duncan told CNN on Monday.

“Ninety-one indictments,” Duncan said. “Fake Republican, a trillion dollars’ worth of debt [from his time in the White House], everything we need to see to not choose him as our nominee, including the fact that he’s got the moral compass of a … more like an axe murderer than a president.

“We need to do something right here, right now. This is either our pivot point or our last gasp as Republicans.”

Duncan was the lieutenant governor of Georgia when Trump tried to overturn his defeat there by Joe Biden in 2020...

[...]
 
I think Meadows actually did real, possibly insurmountable, damage yesterday. I don't think he wins the removal bid and his testimony is going to come back to haunt him at his own trial. He didn't recall things he likely should have; asserted he didn't know Trump was contesting election results in some states; undermined his own arguments several times on the stand including that he wasn't really able to prove his actions were tied to his role as a federal employee rather than campaigning which was illegal for him to participate in.

Raffensperger dealt a death blow by saying that now infamous phone call was political and that the office of the president plays no role in voter certification in the state.

Meadows has more criminal exposure than Trump, imo, so I think he's going to be looking to cut a deal with the DA sooner rather than later.

Could well be wrong but JMO.
Has Meadows been indicted on federal charges also?


(It's a bit overwhelming..and can't keep track of it all)


ETA: Mark Meadows text message are on CNN



On one site, I saw lots of messages to and from Congressman Chip Roy.
 
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Very interesting remarks by Rachel Maddow last night about what re-election means to Trump and to the country…essentially, the potential that he will be “president for life” to avoid the consequences of his numerous indictments. Article and video at link.

www.thewrap.com

Rachel Maddow Worries Trump Will Be 'Probably President for Life' if He Wins in 2024 (Video)

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow notes that in the current political moment, "far right politics is coinciding with far right violence"
www.thewrap.com
www.thewrap.com
 
ATLANTA — Former Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows took the witness stand in federal court Monday in a bid to get the criminal case charging him with tampering with the 2020 presidential election results moved out of state court and, ultimately, dismissed.

Meadows spent more than three hours testifying, declaring that he took an extremely wide-ranging view of his responsibilities as chief of staff and saw that role as encompassing nearly all his actions prosecutors say amounted to corrupt pressure on Georgia officials.

If a federal judge agrees that Meadows’ actions plausibly fell within the scope of his federal duties, the case may get moved into federal court, and Meadows may be immune from the charges against him, which prosecutors brought under state law. Other defendants in the case, including Donald Trump himself, are expected to raise similar immunity arguments.


Updated: 08/28/2023 07:58 PM EDT
 
Very interesting remarks by Rachel Maddow last night about what re-election means to Trump and to the country…essentially, the potential that he will be “president for life” to avoid the consequences of his numerous indictments. Article and video at link.

www.thewrap.com

Rachel Maddow Worries Trump Will Be 'Probably President for Life' if He Wins in 2024 (Video)

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow notes that in the current political moment, "far right politics is coinciding with far right violence"
www.thewrap.com
www.thewrap.com
Imo We have seen this coming for a long time. Trump is and has always been, a one man crime wave chaos maker. He has never had an interest in democracy or serving the people. His interest is solely what benefits him. We are very much at a pivotal moment in history.
“ Emotional” thinkers vs “ logical” thinkers in this country put our way of life in peril imo. The repub parties willingness to do whatever it takes legal/illegal to win this elections put our way of life in peril. it really is not a time for the faint of heart. Just my opinion
 
Has Meadows been indicted on federal charges also?
No but I have a sneaking suspicion he possibly will be - the only person charged federally so far in connection to conspiring to overturn the election is Trump because the case is purposefully built for speed.

It's long been rumored he was cooperating with federal authorities but after his testimony yesterday, I think that idea's been shot to smithereens. I personally think Meadows has always wanted to do juuuuuuust enough to avoid being personally liable while also not harming Trump and Republicans. If he is cooperating with Smith's team (and people suspect he is because he isn't readily identifiable in the indictment as a co-conspirator) - I'd have to think that may be in jeopardy after his lack of candor on the stand. All JMO
 
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No but I have a sneaking suspicion he probably will be - the only person charged federally so far in connection to conspiring to overturn the election is Trump because the case is built for speed.

It's long been rumored he was cooperating with federal authorities but after his testimony yesterday, I think that idea's been shot to smithereens. I personally think Meadows has always wanted to do juuuuuuust enough to avoid being personally liable while also not harming Trump and Republicans. JMO
Thx for the info.
If he we was already indicted by the feds, I don't think he did himself any favors yesterday.

I think he threw all caution to the wind yesterday.


I feel much what he said, could hurt a federal case against him.
I think much of what he said can't be used by the State of GA against him.

I kinda think he won't be indicted by the feds.
 
snippws../

It's long been rumored he was cooperating with federal authorities but after his testimony yesterday, I think that idea's been shot to smithereens. I personally think Meadows has always wanted to do juuuuuuust enough to avoid being personally liable while also not harming Trump and Republicans. If he is cooperating with Smith's team (and people suspect he is because he isn't readily identifiable in the indictment as a co-conspirator) - I'd have to think that may be in jeopardy after his lack of candor on the stand. All JMO

I have a 6 co-conspirator missing from my list.
From my notes:
Five of the six alleged co-conspirators, based on details provided in transcripts of testimony to the Jan. 6 Committee and other records, appear to be: longtime Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani; lawyer John Eastman, who helped architect the "fake electors scheme"; attorney Sidney Powell, who helped lead Trump's post-campaign legal efforts; former Justice Dept. official Jeffrey Clark, whom Trump considered making his attorney general; and Kenneth Chesebro, another attorney pushing the "fake electors scheme." It is not clear who co-conspirator 6 is.

Edited to - this is the DC case - 4 counts against Trump.
 
Thx for the info.
If he we was already indicted by the feds, I don't think he did himself any favors yesterday.

I think he threw all caution to the wind yesterday.


I feel much what he said, could hurt a federal case against him.
I think much of what he said can't be used by the State of GA against him.

I kinda think he won't be indicted by the feds.
I totally disagree. He admitted it was his idea that Trump reach out to Ms. Watson on the stand and testified he had no reason to disbelieve Barr's assessment that there had not been widespread fraud. He stated he had no knowledge the Trump campaign was contesting election results in Michigan despite attending an Oval Office meeting with Michigan state lawmakers (you want to bet there's a paper trail to prove he knew because I would) and he made several admissions regarding his indicted conduct - the suggestion to contact Ms. Watson, texting about the campaign paying for speeding up ballot signature matching (WITHOUT having discussed it with the campaign!), couldn't recall much of the outreach made to election officials (again, expect testimony and documents to refute what he said on the stand) and he stated as chief of staff, he had nothing to do with electors setting the stage, I believe, for Fani Willis to prove he did.

So he not only admitted to the conduct alleged but even helpfully added that for at least one overt act he hadn't been asked to do so, or discussed it with the Trump campaign. He acted of his own accord.

He is now locked into a story that's riddled with issues and, I believe, damaged any credibility. See how that might hurt his case in Georgia? JMO
 
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