GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023 #2

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The rest of us though? We see it. I’m a big WW2 buff and I see the parallels. Some may say that’s hysteria, or laughable, or an overreaction, but if you’re knowledgeable about Hitler and his relationship with Germany in the 20’s and 30’s it’s not so far-fetched and it just rains red flags. MOO

Right. If we “amateur historians” can see the red flags, why isn’t it obvious to the professional politicians and journalists who deal with Trump using tactics you’d use with a normal opponent. I’m not saying I know what they could do differently except to point out to the public exactly who he is and why he is so dangerous. And then be accused of hysteria and overreaction. But it beats focusing solely on his indictments and his previous term in office. However, Trump has this “superpower” that makes him dangerous and very hard to beat. Unfortunately, as with Hitler, his adoring base and sycophants will follow him to hell and do despicable things to remain in his favor.

In 2019/2020 a bipartisan group worked secretly for months behind the scenes to make sure Trump didn’t steal the election. I wonder if they’re at it again.
 
But the facts are less important than feelings when it comes to Trump’s defenders. This is why I’ve been posting about his “victimhood” being such a powerful emotional bond with his followers (posts #790 & 793). <modsnip - personalizing> Trump has tapped into the victimhood of his base with his own victimhood (“I’m doing this for you”—-a messiah) and created a powerful emotional bond that is impervious to logic. This “cult of personality” is extremely dangerous, as we’ve seen in the 20th century (Hitler and Mussolini). I’m not sure “normal politicians” (Biden) and ”talking heads” (except a few like Rachel Maddow) truly understand this…to their peril.

JMO but supported by research
For all the talk about "facts over feelings" from many Trump defenders I see the vast majority of them demonstrating values opposing this saying. JMO.
 
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Well removing it to federal court accomplishes a lot - it eats up time, it opens up a larger jury pool in possibly more favorable areas politically (Fulton County is largely democratic) and most importantly, it allows a federal officer to claim immunity using the Supremacy Clause.

JMO
I understand the desire, but not understanding how Shafer and Latham will make a case to justify the move. Well, we'll find out soon enough.

jmo
 
Right. If we “amateur historians” can see the red flags, why isn’t it obvious to the professional politicians and journalists who deal with Trump using tactics you’d use with a normal opponent. I’m not saying I know what they could do differently except to point out to the public exactly who he is and why he is so dangerous. And then be accused of hysteria and overreaction. But it beats focusing solely on his indictments and his previous term in office. However, Trump has this “superpower” that makes him dangerous and very hard to beat. Unfortunately, as with Hitler, his adoring base and sycophants will follow him to hell and do despicable things to remain in his favor.

In 2019/2020 a bipartisan group worked secretly for months behind the scenes to make sure Trump didn’t steal the election. I wonder if they’re at it again.
My own take - knowing of Trump for years, is that this approach has been very strategic and designed to illicit just what you describe. I think those in power are very well aware, but how do you actually pinpoint it constructively and effectively counter it. HIs followers imo generally ( altho there are alot of subsets imo)are the" anti touchy feely" and have no use for the voodoo psychology types. They are def not open to understanding how they are being manipulated lol. If only there were an algorythm to unscramble the hearts and minds of his followers lol! A deprogramming.
My longterm frustration is that I feel there are no answers and my sincere hope is that Logic and Reason will prevail. Esp with the younger demographic. The Hate I see being fostered towards others by certain groups in this country is heartbreakingly tragic. ALL JUST IMO
 
Judge Jones just entered an order for a supplemental briefing to be filed by 5pm Thursday by both parties. The issue is - if even one of Meadows overt acts (but not all) as charged in the indictment occured under the color of his office would that alone be sufficient for federal removal of a criminal prosecution?
Excellent, very lengthy and in-depth interview with 5 of the Special Gand Jurors. From their selections, delibertions and through to their recommendations ... 8 Months worth ... (bits BBM) ...


Some points and quotes:
- “One of the most important things we’ll be a part of in our life was this eight month process that we did,” one juror told the AJC. It was “incredibly important to get it right.”

- For months, they were unable to talk to friends, family members and co-workers about what they were doing. They said the overall panel was diverse, with different races, economic backgrounds and political viewpoints represented.

- After their work that day was done, jurors were silently led through tunnels to the courthouse basement, walking past a SWAT team stationed in the hallways to armored vans that took them to their off-site cars. “It was the haunted house of SWAT,” one juror said. For others, that’s when the gravity of their assignment hit home. “We knew it was big, but as they were leading us out, then that’s when it hit. I was like, holy moly,” one said.

- The first set, who they questioned early on, were generally forthcoming. The second was witnesses who needed to receive subpoenas but were willing to talk. The third was people who clearly did not want to be there and had fought their summons. They were the last witnesses jurors heard from, and many had at least at one point been close to Trump. “It was like night and day when that second group finished and we got to the third,” the juror said. “The tone in the room
completely changed, like overnight.”

- One grand juror recalled U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham’s testimony about Trump’s state of mind in the months after the 2020 election. “He said that during that time, if somebody had told Trump that aliens came down and stole Trump ballots, that Trump would’ve believed it,” the juror said.

- A notable moment came as prosecutors were questioning a witness who said he possessed additional evidence of election fraud at his office. ‘I mentioned something like, ‘oh, I’d like to see that.’ One of the DA’s team stood up immediately, left, came back in and he handed a subpoena to the witness still sitting there,” a juror recounted, declining to disclose who the witness was.

- Another indicated he had grown more jaded after it became clear that some witnesses were telling the grand jury one thing about the election under oath and then casting doubt on the system when they returned to the campaign trail, sometimes hours later.

-
The group said they had no idea what Willis planned to do in response to their recommendations. But many described an increased regard for the elections system and the people who run it.

- Said another juror: “I tell my wife if every person in America knew every single word of information we knew, this country would not be divided as it is right now.” The grand jurors said they understand why the public release of their full final report needs to wait until Willis makes indictment decisions.

- “A lot’s gonna come out sooner or later,” one of the jurors said. “And it’s gonna be massive. It’s gonna be massive.”
 
I have a 6 co-conspirator missing from my list.
From my notes:
Five of the six alleged co-conspirators, based on details provided in transcripts of testimony to the Jan. 6 Committee and other records, appear to be: longtime Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani; lawyer John Eastman, who helped architect the "fake electors scheme"; attorney Sidney Powell, who helped lead Trump's post-campaign legal efforts; former Justice Dept. official Jeffrey Clark, whom Trump considered making his attorney general; and Kenneth Chesebro, another attorney pushing the "fake electors scheme." It is not clear who co-conspirator 6 is.

Edited to - this is the DC case - 4 counts against Trump.

The NY Times has reviewed the description of #6 in the indictment, and says the description lines up with Boris Epshteyn. Due to an email he sent to Giuliani on Dec 7th 2020 matching up with the indictment description.



ETA: Sorry, I got a little further through the thread and saw that anneg posted the same thoughts from a different source.
 
Chris Kachouroff, a Virginia-based attorney who filed paperwork Monday to represent Floyd in Georgia, said he was contacted Tuesday by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ office to arrange the bond and claimed his client was only given bond because the prosecutor “didn’t like the optics” of Floyd remaining behind bars any longer.

“She was just letting him rot in there,” he said. “I told Harrison ‘this is ridiculous. She should have jumped in there and done the right thing.’”

Jeff DiSantis, Willis’ spokesman, strongly denied Kachouroff’s version of events.

“Mr. Floyd has had the opportunity to work out a consent bond in the same manner as the other defendants named in the indictment, but chose not to do so until today,” he said.

Willis’ office provided the Atlanta Journal-Constitution with a recording of a phone call Willis made that same day to attorney Carlos J.R. Salvado, who is Floyd’s attorney in an unrelated criminal case in federal court in Maryland. In the call, she explained that she had sent a representative to meet with Floyd at the jail when he turned himself in. Willis told Salvado that Floyd was offered a consent bond at that time, but he refused it.

In the recorded phone call with Floyd’s Maryland attorney, Willis said when Floyd turned up in Atlanta , he “made somewhat of a scene in the lobby of the jail and basically just begged to be booked in.” Lawyers for all of the other defendants came to her office to arrange bail prior to their clients going to the jail, she said.

“You know what I feel bad about it, and I’m gonna tell you the reason I feel bad is there’s 19 defendants on this indictment and he is the only one held with no bond, and I think it’s because he’s a layperson and he doesn’t understand,” she said in the recorded call.

Salvado, who did not immediately return a call and email seeking comment, seemed to agree with Willis that Floyd’s lack of knowledge of the criminal justice system contributed to his predicament.

 
Excellent, very lengthy and in-depth interview with 5 of the Special Gand Jurors. From their selections, delibertions and through to their recommendations ... 8 Months worth ... (bits BBM) ...


Some points and quotes:
- “One of the most important things we’ll be a part of in our life was this eight month process that we did,” one juror told the AJC. It was “incredibly important to get it right.”

- For months, they were unable to talk to friends, family members and co-workers about what they were doing. They said the overall panel was diverse, with different races, economic backgrounds and political viewpoints represented.

- After their work that day was done, jurors were silently led through tunnels to the courthouse basement, walking past a SWAT team stationed in the hallways to armored vans that took them to their off-site cars. “It was the haunted house of SWAT,” one juror said. For others, that’s when the gravity of their assignment hit home. “We knew it was big, but as they were leading us out, then that’s when it hit. I was like, holy moly,” one said.

- The first set, who they questioned early on, were generally forthcoming. The second was witnesses who needed to receive subpoenas but were willing to talk. The third was people who clearly did not want to be there and had fought their summons. They were the last witnesses jurors heard from, and many had at least at one point been close to Trump. “It was like night and day when that second group finished and we got to the third,” the juror said. “The tone in the room
completely changed, like overnight.”

- One grand juror recalled U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham’s testimony about Trump’s state of mind in the months after the 2020 election. “He said that during that time, if somebody had told Trump that aliens came down and stole Trump ballots, that Trump would’ve believed it,” the juror said.

- A notable moment came as prosecutors were questioning a witness who said he possessed additional evidence of election fraud at his office. ‘I mentioned something like, ‘oh, I’d like to see that.’ One of the DA’s team stood up immediately, left, came back in and he handed a subpoena to the witness still sitting there,” a juror recounted, declining to disclose who the witness was.

- Another indicated he had grown more jaded after it became clear that some witnesses were telling the grand jury one thing about the election under oath and then casting doubt on the system when they returned to the campaign trail, sometimes hours later.

-
The group said they had no idea what Willis planned to do in response to their recommendations. But many described an increased regard for the elections system and the people who run it.

- Said another juror: “I tell my wife if every person in America knew every single word of information we knew, this country would not be divided as it is right now.” The grand jurors said they understand why the public release of their full final report needs to wait until Willis makes indictment decisions.

- “A lot’s gonna come out sooner or later,” one of the jurors said. “And it’s gonna be massive. It’s gonna be massive.”
Very interesting! Thank you.

I'm especially encouraged to hear the good impression of our election process. I hope that message of confidence spreads, and anyone who still "questions" the system and prefers to think corruption is stronger than integrity among election workers will change their minds and merge back into reality.

jmo
 


The Canadian Press

Conservative groups draw up plan to dismantle the US government and replace it with Trump’s vision​

Thanks for posting this @TootsieFootsie! I could not open the link so I attach another below. Also a snippet from the article - JMO


The ideas contained in Heritage’s coffee table-ready book are both ambitious and parochial, a mix of longstanding conservative policies and stark, head-turning proposals that gained prominence in the Trump era.

There’s a “top to bottom overhaul” of the Department of Justice, particularly curbing its independence and ending FBI efforts to combat the spread of misinformation. It calls for stepped-up prosecution of anyone providing or distributing abortion pills by mail.

There are proposals to have the Pentagon “abolish” its recent diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, what the project calls the “woke” agenda, and reinstate service members discharged for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine.

Chapter by chapter, the pages offer a how-to manual for the next president, similar to one Heritage produced 50 years ago, ahead of the Ronald Reagan administration. Authored by some of today’s most prominent thinkers in the conservative movement, it’s often sprinkled with apocalyptic language.”
 
Thanks for posting this @TootsieFootsie! I could not open the link so I attach another below. Also a snippet from the article - JMO


The ideas contained in Heritage’s coffee table-ready book are both ambitious and parochial, a mix of longstanding conservative policies and stark, head-turning proposals that gained prominence in the Trump era.

There’s a “top to bottom overhaul” of the Department of Justice, particularly curbing its independence and ending FBI efforts to combat the spread of misinformation. It calls for stepped-up prosecution of anyone providing or distributing abortion pills by mail.

There are proposals to have the Pentagon “abolish” its recent diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, what the project calls the “woke” agenda, and reinstate service members discharged for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine.

Chapter by chapter, the pages offer a how-to manual for the next president, similar to one Heritage produced 50 years ago, ahead of the Ronald Reagan administration. Authored by some of today’s most prominent thinkers in the conservative movement, it’s often sprinkled with apocalyptic language.”
Wow; sounds like this "Coffee Table" book is the prequel for The Handmaid's Tale.

I wonder if MIss Maggie knows her "I told you so" twitter meme with her cup of covfefe is due for a re-circ.

 
Thanks for posting this @TootsieFootsie! I could not open the link so I attach another below. Also a snippet from the article - JMO


The ideas contained in Heritage’s coffee table-ready book are both ambitious and parochial, a mix of longstanding conservative policies and stark, head-turning proposals that gained prominence in the Trump era.

There’s a “top to bottom overhaul” of the Department of Justice, particularly curbing its independence and ending FBI efforts to combat the spread of misinformation. It calls for stepped-up prosecution of anyone providing or distributing abortion pills by mail.

There are proposals to have the Pentagon “abolish” its recent diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, what the project calls the “woke” agenda, and reinstate service members discharged for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine.

Chapter by chapter, the pages offer a how-to manual for the next president, similar to one Heritage produced 50 years ago, ahead of the Ronald Reagan administration. Authored by some of today’s most prominent thinkers in the conservative movement, it’s often sprinkled with apocalyptic language.”
Chilling.
 
For many years now, most of my co-workers, in different industries and environments, admit they don't watch the news and aren't politically engaged at all. They'll complain about the issues that affect them directly, but they don't take any initiative to change or fix those issues. Most of them won't have a clue about what Trump and his cronies attempted. I get that the majority of Americans are really just trying to get by - provide for their families and keep a roof over their heads. But really, it's so tragic that they don't do more to educate themselves on the issues and the politicians for whom they're voting - if they vote at all.
 
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