GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #2

[Jbunnatl]

In Georgia, if you have not paid your insurance than the department of driver services is notified and you have 30 days to pay up before you start to get in bigger trouble. Perhaps she was coming up that thirty day mark. It is not uncommon to even get jail time for continuing to drive without insurance if you got pulled over after the thirty days. Your liscence would be suspended as well and the fees start adding up.

 

[noseynellie]

The car insurance info makes me think more about the guy who told her to not bring her mom's car to College Park...which I still think is a weird thing to say. It's clear that it sounds like Jenna did not want to be driving her car...but someone ultimately still ended up with it. This guy seems like a red flag...was he dead set on getting Jenna in her car? Trying to think of why...

Yes, weird. He said he said he'd meet her closer to her apartment that night but she didn't show.

However, Subie said they think she was back at the apartment that night. No confirmation on that Cheshire Bridge gas station charge around 11 p.m. but that's right near her apartment.

So why didn't she answer his calls when he phoned her twice and she was possibly right in the area where they were to meet? It's not like she called him back and explained anything or he would've said the reason why she didn't show. Was she possibly avoiding him?


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[Bently]

Yes definitely will do. As we told the LE, there is no instruction manual when it comes to this, and I feel like a checklist needs to be made for what to check early on especially with so much technology now

:looking: for resources in the basement area/jury room that might help Subie as I thought we had a thread or two just for such.

I cannot find it, but I thought it was there. Any other :websleuther: finding what I'm thinking of?

TIA

ETA: I found listing of members who might be able to answer questions if Subie wants to do such? But I think this list is specifically for search and rescue, vs searching for a missing person?

K9 SAR & Police
SAR management
justtoseeyousmile
k9snoop
Oriah
Sarx
K-9 Chaser
indepmo
MTrooper
CALSAR
ANZAC
bbbd4u

Missing Persons Advocate
OPLOC2005 - Verified Missing Persons Advocate


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?191641-Professional-Posters-amp-Verified-Insiders

I also found a search and rescue forum that includes the threads for other cases. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?483-Search-and-Rescue

But again, I thought that there was a "to do" thread for missing persons here at WS. :dunno:

 

[1&2&3]

Yes, weird. He said he said he'd meet her closer to her apartment that night but she didn't show.

However, Subie said they think she was back at the apartment that night. No confirmation on that Cheshire Bridge gas station charge around 11 p.m. but that's right near her apartment.

So why didn't she answer his calls when he phoned her twice and she was possibly right in the area where they were to meet? It's not like she called him back and explained anything or he would've said the reason why she didn't show. Was she possibly avoiding him?
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Or was someone with her so she wasn't able to meet him or answer his calls? IDRC was she getting money out of an ATM at each of the gas stations or perhaps getting minimum amount of gas so she could get cash back? Where was the person who had been borrowing money from her when she worked at that store? Has he/she been checked out

 

[Shiressleuth]

In Georgia, if you have not paid your insurance than the department of driver services is notified and you have 30 days to pay up before you start to get in bigger trouble. Perhaps she was coming up that thirty day mark. It is not uncommon to even get jail time for continuing to drive without insurance if you got pulled over after the thirty days. Your licence would be suspended as well and the fees start adding up.

It sounds like it could be she was either short of cash for the insurance or perhaps thinking of selling it maybe. She was clearly looking for a new apartment and would need money for a deposit so was maybe leaving the car insurance as long as possible before renewing. Its tough when money is tight and bills come all at once.
Did anything come of the new lead about the apartment on the 18th?

Also, I don't understand what LE meant by saying they didn't think the car was at the "initial destination" re the search? Where do they believe the "initial destination" was and what about searching there? (if they have an idea from cctv and traffic cams.)
Regarding traffic cams, would they pick up on the fact the insurance had expired?

If she was short of money and couldn't afford the insurance, perhaps she did try to pawn or sell the tapestry? Have any pawn shops been checked ? Perhaps she thought she could get it back before the parents came back but then something has happened. JMO

 

[Angleterre]

Hi Subie,

Re: not paying her insurance, would that be the sole reason do you think? She would have been using her car up until that point regardless, so why would that one night be any different? Not aimed at you btw, just saying out loud. She may not have paid it but i cant see it being the only reason.
Here in the UK, and correct me if im wrong UK citizens, you can only drive someone elses car if you are a named driver on that vehicle under the owners insurance, or you have fully comprehensive insurance cover on your own vehicle and its paid up to date. Is this the same in Georgia?



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Almost right ... you can also drive someone else's car on third party insurance if you yourself are fully comprehensive without being named on a policy


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[Bently]

I found the missing persons forum which has quite a bit of resources here at WS. I had forgotton about this forum until today. :doh:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?550-Missing-Persons-Resources

View attachment 123853

 

[Bit of hope]

It sounds like it could be she was either short of cash for the insurance or perhaps thinking of selling it maybe. She was clearly looking for a new apartment and would need money for a deposit so was maybe leaving the car insurance as long as possible before renewing. Its tough when money is tight and bills come all at once.
Did anything come of the new lead about the apartment on the 18th?

Also, I don't understand what LE meant by saying they didn't think the car was at the "initial destination" re the search? Where do they believe the "initial destination" was and what about searching there? (if they have an idea from cctv and traffic cams.)
Regarding traffic cams, would they pick up on the fact the insurance had expired?

If she was short of money and couldn't afford the insurance, perhaps she did try to pawn or sell the tapestry? Have any pawn shops been checked ? Perhaps she thought she could get it back before the parents came back but then something has happened. JMO

Could LE mean that the car was in garage/stashed away and when "the time was right" put on the street...staging, decoy, manipulating the investigation?

 

[kdhith]

I was unaware until now on this, but will be updating flyers today

Have you learned anything more about the tattoo? Is it presumed that she got this herself?

It may be a long shot, but I'm just thinking about the possible trafficking angle and branding. The Star of David is a symbol used by a gang active in ATL. There was a pretty well-known trafficking case here where the suspect kept a number of women in a house in Sandy Springs. He was a member of that gang.

 

[Bit of hope]

About a checklist missing persons...maybe this could be useful http://www.nampn.org/mpchecklist.pdf and added with info from the experiences from people from "the inside".

 

[Bit of hope]

Have you learned anything more about the tattoo? Is it presumed that she got this herself?

It may be a long shot, but I'm just thinking about the possible trafficking angle and branding. The Star of David is a symbol used by a gang active in ATL. There was a pretty well-known trafficking case here where the suspect kept a number of women in a house in Sandy Springs. He was a member of that gang.

Interesting angle....branding....yes trafficking rings do.....pfffff In the beginning of thread 1 I suggested that she could have been trafficked to Israel (a notorious trafficking country) but I let it go again, Jenna's passport in parents bank (there are ways to give somebody a new identity).....now I'm not sure....my brain and hart are saying....don't go there...but indeed this could happen "closer to home", we should not close our eyes for this scenario. And also can't get this missing girl out of my mind... http://www.atlantapd.org/community/crime-stoppers/missing-persons/morgan-aryn-bauer thing they have in common is the Cheshire bridge area.... Jenna's debit card used on
- DeKalb Industrial Chevron @ Cheshire Bridge
- 11.pm. LaVistaWendy's @ 1940 Piedmont Road she was at the gas station at Lavista and CheshireBridge around 11PM, info from Facebooksite.

 

[Capebluff]

Have you learned anything more about the tattoo? Is it presumed that she got this herself?

It may be a long shot, but I'm just thinking about the possible trafficking angle and branding. The Star of David is a symbol used by a gang active in ATL. There was a pretty well-known trafficking case here where the suspect kept a number of women in a house in Sandy Springs. He was a member of that gang.

Wow! Interesting!! The location of the tattoo is what makes me wonder the most about it. That's not typically an area one would tattoo but it enables the ability to keep it covered almost all the time.

I know they are Jewish & the Star of David is a symbol of Judaism. That considered, Jenna may have believed no one would think twice about the tattoo if they ever learned of it. The location still puzzles me though.

 

[Capebluff]

Have you learned anything more about the tattoo? Is it presumed that she got this herself?

It may be a long shot, but I'm just thinking about the possible trafficking angle and branding. The Star of David is a symbol used by a gang active in ATL. There was a pretty well-known trafficking case here where the suspect kept a number of women in a house in Sandy Springs. He was a member of that gang.

Do you by chance know the name of the gang who uses the Star of David?

 

[bears10]

Do you by chance know the name of the gang who uses the Star of David?

I googled a bit and came up with Gangster Disciples as the gang name.

It's ironic IMO that she has a Star of David tattoo since tattoos are heavily looked down upon (basically forbidden) in the Jewish religion.

 

[Capebluff]

I googled a bit and came up with Gangster Disciples as the gang name.

It's ironic IMO that she has a Star of David tattoo since tattoos are heavily looked down upon (basically forbidden) in the Jewish religion.

I found them as well as Diamond Kitties which is the home in Sandy Springs where the man was arrested for trafficking the women.

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

Wow! Interesting!! The location of the tattoo is what makes me wonder the most about it. That's not typically an area one would tattoo but it enables the ability to keep it covered almost all the time.

I know they are Jewish & the Star of David is a symbol of Judaism. That considered, Jenna may have believed no one would think twice about the tattoo if they ever learned of it. The location still puzzles me though.

I would guess this sums up Jenna's tattoo; she is Jewish, thus the star of David, but wanted the ability to cover it. Probably significant that her family was unaware of it; I assume she thought they wouldn't approve. Subie may have insight there.

 

[1&2&3]

Just thought of something. Wonder where she put the money and Cashiers Checks she got from the bank? She must not have had access to them if she was getting money from the gas stations or ATM's that night.

To cash those Cashiers Checks she would need two forms of ID. We know she left her ID at home. Did she already have her fake ID made, ready for her to take off?

Perhaps that is why she did not pay her car insurance because she knew she would be gone and not be driving her car?

 

[bears10]

Just thought of something. Wonder where she put the money and Cashiers Checks she got from the bank? She must not have had access to them if she was getting money from the gas stations or ATM's that night.

To cash those Cashiers Checks she would need two forms of ID. We know she left her ID at home. Did she already have her fake ID made, ready for her to take off?

Perhaps that is why she did not pay her car insurance because she knew she would be gone and not be driving her car?

I must have missed something. She got money and cashiers checks from the bank? If she obtained the cashier's checks herself, why would she cash her own cashier's checks? Are you thinking of the Western Union transactions? Those were sent over a period of a year to someone... Jenna was the sender, not the receiver.

 

[drjmcope06]

The tattoo is a great thought, but keep in mind, many keep them covered. My first at the same place she has hers was intended to keep covered from my family. My second I was a bit more carefree but still it's covered. My last one is an ankle when I knew graduating with a doctorate, no one would slam me for it. That was at the age of 30.

And no I'm not Jewish but my family is highly conservative.

I'm asking a few people involved in gangs, they told me it wouldn't be practice to tattoo a female or brand them as belonging to them. Now this is in the Philly area. They prefer colors not tattoos. Meaning gang colors and tattoos that are variations of the gang symbol so LE does not know affiliation.

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[JLD333]

Almost right ... you can also drive someone else's car on third party insurance if you yourself are fully comprehensive without being named on a policy


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You are covered under someone else's policy as long as you have permission to drive the vehicle. That was my understanding when I was an insurance agent a few years back, at least. The insurance follows the car, not the driver. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say?