GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #2

[pamelado2]

IIRC, Subie stated the Google Location Hx & Timeline went black around 1130pm either due to the phone being completely dead or location tracking being turned off.

If this is the reason why these stops don't show on the Google Timeline, we could safely assume the stops occurred after 1130pm.

However, it's also a possibility that Jenna isn't the one who used her debit card (therefore not physically in these locations to be tracked by Google Timeline).

I know Subie said that there was a Wendy's straw wrapper found in mom's car, but, I'm sure no one is 100% certain this straw wrapper (unless accompanied by a dated receipt), was in fact from that purchase.

One thing that was mentioned, when your phone's battery is low and your put power saver or battery saver on in most cases that would turn off any location services.

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[Fiddle]

Am not sure if I am allowed to postulate a theory on this website so if not please delete this post. My apologies to Subie if this seems harsh. I cannot imagine what you are going through.

Jenna picked up townhouse guy in mother's car (to save gas in her car) on fri night. Drove around town together visiting various places, gas stations, fast food, English Ave etc (hence the sighting of a male in the passenger seat). It is not unusual for young people to do this for lots of reasons (both legal and illegal ones). The reason she did not meet the other guy in Lindbergh is because she had townhouse guy in her car. Her phones start running out of power so they head back to parent's house to charge them (also not unusual). Fight ensues while at parent's house watching TV and poor Jenna is accidentally killed. Townhouse guy wraps her body in the tapestry and hangs frame back on the wall hoping it is not noticed as missing. He texts her friend (that she was talking to earlier) to say she is lying down. Then tosses suitcase, purse and switched off phones into trunk of her car. But forgets chargers and toiletries. Wipes prints as much as possible. Dumps her body and everything else except suitcase (to make it look like she left it there). Then parks car in a risky neighborhood. Wipes again for prints. Walks away and catches Uber home or calls a friend.

My guess is that the cops suspect "townhouse" guy but cannot gather enough evidence so following him, interviewing him etc and do not want to share all they know with the media so he does not get suspicious. Just my two cents.

 

[italianangel2411]

I think that's a pretty good theory. Driving her moms car around to save her gas in her own car sounds reasonable
Has townhouse guy been interviewed? Vey good theory IMO
I do not think she is missing voluntarily
I'm so sorry for you subie and your family, what a nightmare

 

[sassysleuthie]

Am not sure if I am allowed to postulate a theory on this website so if not please delete this post. My apologies to Subie if this seems harsh. I cannot imagine what you are going through.

Jenna picked up townhouse guy in mother's car (to save gas in her car) on fri night. Drove around town together visiting various places, gas stations, fast food, English Ave etc (hence the sighting of a male in the passenger seat). It is not unusual for young people to do this for lots of reasons (both legal and illegal ones). The reason she did not meet the other guy in Lindbergh is because she had townhouse guy in her car. Her phones start running out of power so they head back to parent's house to charge them (also not unusual). Fight ensues while at parent's house watching TV and poor Jenna is accidentally killed. Townhouse guy wraps her body in the tapestry and hangs frame back on the wall hoping it is not noticed as missing. He texts her friend (that she was talking to earlier) to say she is lying down. Then tosses suitcase, purse and switched off phones into trunk of her car. But forgets chargers and toiletries. Wipes prints as much as possible. Dumps her body and everything else except suitcase (to make it look like she left it there). Then parks car in a risky neighborhood. Wipes again for prints. Walks away and catches Uber home or calls a friend.

My guess is that the cops suspect "townhouse" guy but cannot gather enough evidence so following him, interviewing him etc and do not want to share all they know with the media so he does not get suspicious. Just my two cents.

I've thought about theories similar to this one. Good observations. I, however, cannot help but think that if a fight would have occurred at the druid hills home, there would be more evidence of a struggle and prints....

 

[Fiddle]

LE may have prints they are not telling us about. Given her size and the attacker's size (based on seat positions), there may not have been much of a struggle. Probably mostly verbal but it was mentioned one guy is violent (not sure if townhouse guy) so may have escalated.

 

[Stanly]

Am not sure if I am allowed to postulate a theory on this website so if not please delete this post. My apologies to Subie if this seems harsh. I cannot imagine what you are going through.

Jenna picked up townhouse guy in mother's car (to save gas in her car) on fri night. Drove around town together visiting various places, gas stations, fast food, English Ave etc (hence the sighting of a male in the passenger seat). It is not unusual for young people to do this for lots of reasons (both legal and illegal ones). The reason she did not meet the other guy in Lindbergh is because she had townhouse guy in her car. Her phones start running out of power so they head back to parent's house to charge them (also not unusual). Fight ensues while at parent's house watching TV and poor Jenna is accidentally killed. Townhouse guy wraps her body in the tapestry and hangs frame back on the wall hoping it is not noticed as missing. He texts her friend (that she was talking to earlier) to say she is lying down. Then tosses suitcase, purse and switched off phones into trunk of her car. But forgets chargers and toiletries. Wipes prints as much as possible. Dumps her body and everything else except suitcase (to make it look like she left it there). Then parks car in a risky neighborhood. Wipes again for prints. Walks away and catches Uber home or calls a friend.

My guess is that the cops suspect "townhouse" guy but cannot gather enough evidence so following him, interviewing him etc and do not want to share all they know with the media so he does not get suspicious. Just my two cents.

My thoughts EXACTLY. Though, there are a couple of POI's.


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[drjmcope06]

Am not sure if I am allowed to postulate a theory on this website so if not please delete this post. My apologies to Subie if this seems harsh. I cannot imagine what you are going through.

Jenna picked up townhouse guy in mother's car (to save gas in her car) on fri night. Drove around town together visiting various places, gas stations, fast food, English Ave etc (hence the sighting of a male in the passenger seat). It is not unusual for young people to do this for lots of reasons (both legal and illegal ones). The reason she did not meet the other guy in Lindbergh is because she had townhouse guy in her car. Her phones start running out of power so they head back to parent's house to charge them (also not unusual). Fight ensues while at parent's house watching TV and poor Jenna is accidentally killed. Townhouse guy wraps her body in the tapestry and hangs frame back on the wall hoping it is not noticed as missing. He texts her friend (that she was talking to earlier) to say she is lying down. Then tosses suitcase, purse and switched off phones into trunk of her car. But forgets chargers and toiletries. Wipes prints as much as possible. Dumps her body and everything else except suitcase (to make it look like she left it there). Then parks car in a risky neighborhood. Wipes again for prints. Walks away and catches Uber home or calls a friend.

My guess is that the cops suspect "townhouse" guy but cannot gather enough evidence so following him, interviewing him etc and do not want to share all they know with the media so he does not get suspicious. Just my two cents.

Gosh, I so didn't want to go here, but thank you for the theory. Those were my thoughts, except the tapestry. If it was a buffet runner it wouldn't be big enough. Oh G-d, I feel so bad. So, maybe that was taken as staged thing? The house would have linens or blankets instead of tapestry. Maybe he made advances towards her and she said no. Hence a fight?

Do we know if the police dusted her parents house or checked for any clean up signs?

I'm so sorry Subie. It's horrible to write this. My apologies.


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[Jbunnatl]

i agree that's a good theory. It would not surprise me if one of the men mentioned (not sure which one) accidentally harmed her and then freaked out instead of reporting it to police. Drugs could be a factor in an individual not contacting police. The tapestry being taken could make it look like a burglary.

 

[Shiressleuth]

LE may have prints they are not telling us about. Given her size and the attacker's size (based on seat positions), there may not have been much of a struggle. Probably mostly verbal but it was mentioned one guy is violent (not sure if townhouse guy) so may have escalated.

The only comments I would add to others is that is a lot of trouble to go through to hide the crime and then forget to set the seat back to the original position. Isn't that a dead giveaway to leave such an obvious clue? Also he was seen with J as well. Where was the DNA or blood or evidence of the fight/crime?

 

[noseynellie]

Yes, we talked with her local girl friend again and Jenna was at the apartment that night before heading back out to meet a guy. Thats all we know right now

I believe what happened is that girl friend left to Uber back up to her home and Jenna left to meet one of these guys. The pi is going to speak again with this girl friend again tomorrow to see if can nail down when she left Jenna exactly.

Now next part is that my parents bought Jenna a green T shirt from San Antonio on their last Vacation. Jenna had been wearing that shirt that week, and can confirm from her girlfriend that Jenna was wearing that Friday night before changing to go back out. We do not see this shirt in her stuff in the car, in her room at my parents nor from the stuff at the apartment. So I'm thinking maybe she put this back on late Friday / early Saturday morning before she disappeared

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If her last text was that she was going to lay down maybe she wore it to sleep in.

I've wondered if she would tell her SC friend whether she had brought someone back with her to your parents' house. I picture an exchange with close friends sharing that kind of info. Like "so and so is over so I'm going to go" sort of thing. Obviously she didn't do that but if the suspected person was with her at the time they were texting, how would he know that she wasn't going to mention (or didn't mention) that he was there?

If someone wasn't there at 2 a.m. then I think of someone stopping by later or someone calling and asking for a trivial favor that got her to go back out or maybe a combo of the two. But you guys would see any calls/texts on the phone records.



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[Jbunnatl]

Maybe the individual who could have harmed her is not whose she was seen with?

 

[Capebluff]

Debit card usages appear to be before 11.30 ( see section of timeline I just posted) Also, if her Tmobile phone went dead at 11.30 p.m it was ok at 2.30 a.m. to text her S.C. friend so was charged up again by then. If battery dies does timeline stop? Restart ?

I do see the timeline showing a time of 11pm-ish... although I haven't seen whether this was actually verified to be fact or if it's a best guess.

Another theory about the Google Locations/Timeline-- considering Jenna swapped vehicles at some point, coupled with the fact that she's believed to have been seen with an unidentified male that evening--& its quite possible (& equally the opposite) there may have been a 3rd (4th/5th, etc) vehicle swap, as well. Not sure one would know at this time. Jenna's phone could have been left in a completely different vehicle than her mom's or her own. She could have left it behind [anywhere], phone possibly picked up by a random person, & who knows what happens to it next.

OR, phone is accidentally (maybe on purpose?) left in one of her 'friends' vehicles, the friend doesn't realize they've been driving her phone around town all evening/night until it begins to ring around 11/1130 with (the pocket dial call)? As some people are always worried about being located/tracked, rather than to dispose of her phone, 'airplane mode' could have been turned on which also would prevent location tracking.

OR, phone is left behind completely on accident, 'friend' realizes soon after Jenna has left his vehicle. Friend begins to snoop through her phone. Potentially comes across messages/photos to/from the pocket dial phone owner which makes him angry. Could he possibly have dialed out to pocket dial # from Jenna's phone--resulting in an accidental return pocket dialed call from said #? OR, friend could have called pocket dial # from their own cell phone & said something off the wall about Jenna/a relationship, etc. Pocket dial # proceeds to call Jenna to discuss, she doesn't answer. He believes he ends the call when her voicemail answers & goes about his evening, but instead ends up leaving a long voicemail sounding like a pocket dial.

I don't believe there is ANY evidence/confirmation (none made public at least) that Jenna was with her phone at any point during the day/evening/night/wee hours.

It's my understanding that no-one knows for certain which vehicle she drove when/where; aside from best guesses. All of which I believe to be based on 'best recollections' of detail(s)/event(s) one wouldn't typically pay attention to or make any effort to take note of (such as-which car was at the house on which day, etc.)

IF upon Subie learning Jenna was MIA (from the Vet) the slightest suspicion of danger was thought to exist, I'm certain 'attention to detail,' great insistence on reaching her sooner rather than later, reaching out to friends, etc., would have all been exercised in abundance & right away.

However, as it does not appear as though this was the immediate/initial reaction, it seems to me this (this=Jenna not present for an agreed upon time/plan) isn't uncommon nor would it necessarily be anything Subie &/or parents would deem 'odd'. It may have been one of the many "new" characteristics dad had began to notice about Jenna. They very well may not have liked it but just began to accept her increasing lack of reliability. Not saying this is the case. Just a possibility.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Maybe the individual who could have harmed her is not whose she was seen with?

So a stranger or intruder perhaps?

 

[Nancy Drew RN]

I think there's merit to this theory. I do suspect that the tapestry was either taken as a red herring or perhaps damaged somehow when she had friends over the night before. It's odd to me that uber girl doesn't know anything about it, if the latter, though, and I would've guessed that it was maybe in the car to be cleaned or repaired, which it seemingly wasn't. I think the lights and tv could indicate a hurried exit, whether by a perpetrator or Jenna rushing to meet someone, possibly earlier in the day. Do we know what tv was on? If it's in a living room versus a bedroom, that would be interesting to see if it validates the text saying that she was lying down.

If she went missing from home, I do think overdose is less likely. I think the perpetrator would've left her in the home in that scenario.

As far as the position of the seat, subie said previously that her mother's car was found with the seat all the way up, indicating that was probably Jenna's usual preference, and the passenger seat all the way back.

 

[Shiressleuth]

@ Capebluff
Good points . Re the phone, J spoke to SC friend that night on her phone and had contact with others on the phone (s) too so there is evidence of that plus the google timeline reflects her having the phones. She was also witnessed in her mum's car with a male passenger.

 

[HorseGuy]

How big was the tapestry thing? Is it possible it went missing before Jenna? Not much has been speculated on it except for a recent post. Would somebody think it was valuable do you think Jenna bragged that it's valuable?

Also the reward states it is for the safe return of Jenna. If more than one person knows that Janice is not going to return safe they will not try to give tips because they will not get the reward. The reward should say $10,000 to any information leading to us finding Jenna. That way if somebody does she's deceased they can claim the reward

 

[Capebluff]

@ Capebluff
Good points . Re the phone, J spoke to SC friend that night on her phone and had contact with others on the phone (s) too so there is evidence of that plus the google timeline reflects her having the phones. She was also witnessed in her mum's car with a male passenger.

I believe she did have the phone at some point or another. However, do we know whether she did or did not have it throughout the entire night? Does she still have them? I very well may have missed this info if it's been posted somewhere along the lines!

 

[bears10]

How big was the tapestry thing? Is it possible it went missing before Jenna? Not much has been speculated on it except for a recent post. Would somebody think it was valuable do you think Jenna bragged that it's valuable?

Also the reward states it is for the safe return of Jenna. If more than one person knows that Janice is not going to return safe they will not try to give tips because they will not get the reward. The reward should say $10,000 to any information leading to us finding Jenna. That way if somebody does she's deceased they can claim the reward

The beginning of the first thread should have a bunch of posts re: the tapestry

 

[Normancita]

Still no Jenna?!? ☹️


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[Owl4]

You may be correct in this case. I don't know about Jenna's driving habits.

That would not be a correct conclusion if it were about me.

Like Jenna, I'm petite and close to her height. I always move my seat back when exiting my car. Always.

Have done so for years too.

It's so much easier to move the seat back than to try to sling my purse, and lunch bag over the steering wheel while getting out.

When I get back in, I move the seat forward. It's no problem at all.

Habit. What I always do.

I'm probably the odd one, but just pointing that out...

I do the same JazzTune!

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