GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[Stanly]

Directly through LE, can't do it our selves with our court order

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This link states they dont need a warrant so whats the hold up?

https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy...cking/cell-phone-location-tracking-laws-state



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[Shiressleuth]

This link states they dont need a warrant so whats the hold up?

https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy...cking/cell-phone-location-tracking-laws-state



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Impressive research Stanly.

 

[PenelopeGarcia]

<modsnip>

Hello. First time post. Apologies in advance if I unintentionally break TOS.

In My Opinion:

Cell phone pings: When you click the link to the ACLU article, and select the state of Georgia, it takes you to a Case Decision in Florida (not Georgia) from 2015. Wish there was a Verified Attorney from Georgia who could answer the questions about current laws for obtaining ping data in their state. The police have made several mistakes on this case. It would not surprise me if they made a mistake when requesting the cell phone ping data.

GBI: GBI can be asked to assist the local PD even if the local PD feels trafficking is not involved. GBI is called upon when a local PD decides it would like additional State resources to help with an open and ongoing investigation. GBI is different from FBI. Each state has its own version of a GBI.

Male passenger in mom's car on Friday evening: I believe this information was on the first missing person's flyer. From following the case, it appears that Jenna's "friends" (I use that term loosely for most of the people she was in contact with on Friday) keep changing their stories. Perhaps someone misled the family (purposely or not) in the beginning?

Changing of cars: Jenna was seen in her mother's car Friday evening by several people. Jenna's mother's car ended up at home with the seat pulled close up (a position for a person of short stature, like Jenna). Jenna's car ended up abandoned on a street, with the driver's seat pushed back (not a position for a person of short stature).

So many possible scenarios of how her mother&#8217;s car made it home, and how Jenna&#8217;s car ended up abandoned on a street on the other side of town.

The suggestion of not coming in her mother's car was made by IG guy, who she never ended up meeting.

IMO

 

[Stanly]

Hello. First time post. Apologies in advance if I unintentionally break TOS.

In My Opinion:

Cell phone pings: When you click the link to the ACLU article, and select the state of Georgia, it takes you to a Case Decision in Florida (not Georgia) from 2015. Wish there was a Verified Attorney from Georgia who could answer the questions about current laws for obtaining ping data in their State

From doing lots of research i kept seeing the same info (no warrant needed). I used that website as a link because there was a map showing laws by state. Regardless of the case decision, i notice the website was up to date as of this year, and at this point in time a warrant is not needed.

IMO LE DO have the info but are just not willing to share. As discussed previously, there are plenty of other cases we could name whereby the ping data was produced very quickly.

I agree with Shire, they are onto someone.

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[Bit of hope]

Hello. First time post. Apologies in advance if I unintentionally break TOS.

In My Opinion:

Cell phone pings: When you click the link to the ACLU article, and select the state of Georgia, it takes you to a Case Decision in Florida (not Georgia) from 2015. Wish there was a Verified Attorney from Georgia who could answer the questions about current laws for obtaining ping data in their state. The police have made several mistakes on this case. It would not surprise me if they made a mistake when requesting the cell phone ping data.

GBI: GBI can be asked to assist the local PD even if the local PD feels trafficking is not involved. GBI is called upon when a local PD decides it would like additional State resources to help with an open and ongoing investigation. GBI is different from FBI. Each state has its own version of a GBI.

Male passenger in mom's car on Friday evening: I believe this information was on the first missing person's flyer. From following the case, it appears that Jenna's "friends" (I use that term loosely for most of the people she was in contact with on Friday) keep changing their stories. Perhaps someone misled the family (purposely or not) in the beginning?

Changing of cars: Jenna was seen in her mother's car Friday evening by several people. Jenna's mother's car ended up at home with the seat pulled close up (a position for a person of short stature, like Jenna). Jenna's car ended up abandoned on a street, with the driver's seat pushed back (not a position for a person of short stature).

So many possible scenarios of how her mother’s car made it home, and how Jenna’s car ended up abandoned on a street on the other side of town.

The suggestion of not coming in her mother's car was made by IG guy, who she never ended up meeting.

IMO

Welcome!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hello. First time post. Apologies in advance if I unintentionally break TOS.

In My Opinion:

Cell phone pings: When you click the link to the ACLU article, and select the state of Georgia, it takes you to a Case Decision in Florida (not Georgia) from 2015. Wish there was a Verified Attorney from Georgia who could answer the questions about current laws for obtaining ping data in their state. The police have made several mistakes on this case. It would not surprise me if they made a mistake when requesting the cell phone ping data.

GBI: GBI can be asked to assist the local PD even if the local PD feels trafficking is not involved. GBI is called upon when a local PD decides it would like additional State resources to help with an open and ongoing investigation. GBI is different from FBI. Each state has its own version of a GBI.

Male passenger in mom's car on Friday evening: I believe this information was on the first missing person's flyer. From following the case, it appears that Jenna's "friends" (I use that term loosely for most of the people she was in contact with on Friday) keep changing their stories. Perhaps someone misled the family (purposely or not) in the beginning?

Changing of cars: Jenna was seen in her mother's car Friday evening by several people. Jenna's mother's car ended up at home with the seat pulled close up (a position for a person of short stature, like Jenna). Jenna's car ended up abandoned on a street, with the driver's seat pushed back (not a position for a person of short stature).

So many possible scenarios of how her mother’s car made it home, and how Jenna’s car ended up abandoned on a street on the other side of town.

The suggestion of not coming in her mother's car was made by IG guy, who she never ended up meeting.

IMO

Welcome Penelope. Excellent first post.

Re the GBI, Dekalb don't want them according to family, which is strange. I can only think they have a suspect so don't need any help, otherwise why refuse to involve them?

I think they have the pings, the cctv, and are moving along now hopefully. MOO.

Eta are you saying you think there was or wasn't a male passenger in the car that night? Cctv should show that at some point as LE have traffic cam footage and must at least have gas station footage. So the witness story can be checked easily imo.

 

[U2forever]

Hello. First time post. Apologies in advance if I unintentionally break TOS.

In My Opinion:

Cell phone pings: When you click the link to the ACLU article, and select the state of Georgia, it takes you to a Case Decision in Florida (not Georgia) from 2015. Wish there was a Verified Attorney from Georgia who could answer the questions about current laws for obtaining ping data in their state. The police have made several mistakes on this case. It would not surprise me if they made a mistake when requesting the cell phone ping data.

GBI: GBI can be asked to assist the local PD even if the local PD feels trafficking is not involved. GBI is called upon when a local PD decides it would like additional State resources to help with an open and ongoing investigation. GBI is different from FBI. Each state has its own version of a GBI.

Male passenger in mom's car on Friday evening: I believe this information was on the first missing person's flyer. From following the case, it appears that Jenna's "friends" (I use that term loosely for most of the people she was in contact with on Friday) keep changing their stories. Perhaps someone misled the family (purposely or not) in the beginning?

Changing of cars: Jenna was seen in her mother's car Friday evening by several people. Jenna's mother's car ended up at home with the seat pulled close up (a position for a person of short stature, like Jenna). Jenna's car ended up abandoned on a street, with the driver's seat pushed back (not a position for a person of short stature).

So many possible scenarios of how her mother’s car made it home, and how Jenna’s car ended up abandoned on a street on the other side of town.

The suggestion of not coming in her mother's car was made by IG guy, who she never ended up meeting. IMO

:greetings:

PenelopeGarcia,
​

:wagon:

Very nice to meet you!

:confetti: :confetti:

:happydance:
​

 

[PenelopeGarcia]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Bit of hope, Shiressleuth, & U2forever.

(In My Opinion)

GBI:
Local PD (Dekalb) is currently responsible for Jenna&#8217;s case. To ask another agency to come in and assist has pros and cons. The positive is that there will be added resources. The negative could be the issues that could come along with working with another agency (no longer having complete control over the case).

Perhaps some may think that local PD asking GBI for assistance, somehow, makes the local PD appear not capable of handling the case on their own. Personally, I think if local PD are open to having all assistance from those willing to work with them, that demonstrates that the welfare of their citizens (finding Jenna) is their highest priority.

PINGS:
I also hope that the local PD does have the cell phone ping data from Jenna's phone by now. I still would like to understand why in some cases, ping data is delivered within 24 hours and in other cases, it&#8217;s a minimum of 8 weeks.

CARS:
Regarding if there was a male passenger in a car with Jenna (at any time), my opinion is that until it is shown by camera, or backed up by reliable witnesses, I can&#8217;t give a definitive answer.

CAMERAS:
I would like to know more about camera footage. How long does each of the various businesses save their footage? Were the businesses asked by PD quickly enough, before footage was erased / overwritten?

<modsnip>

PD UPDATES TO FAMILY / PUBLIC:
I understand that in ongoing investigations, a lot of the information may be known to PD and not known to the family or the public. I hope the police understand how frustrating it can be for loved ones of the missing to not have updates. It requires a lot of blind trust from the hurting families of missing persons, that the PD is doing everything possible.

IMO

 

[Bit of hope]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Bit of hope, Shiressleuth, & U2forever.

(In My Opinion)

GBI:
Local PD (Dekalb) is currently responsible for Jenna&#8217;s case. To ask another agency to come in and assist has pros and cons. The positive is that there will be added resources. The negative could be the issues that could come along with working with another agency (no longer having complete control over the case).

Perhaps some may think that local PD asking GBI for assistance, somehow, makes the local PD appear not capable of handling the case on their own. Personally, I think if local PD are open to having all assistance from those willing to work with them, that demonstrates that the welfare of their citizens (finding Jenna) is their highest priority.

PINGS:
I also hope that the local PD does have the cell phone ping data from Jenna's phone by now. I still would like to understand why in some cases, ping data is delivered within 24 hours and in other cases, it&#8217;s a minimum of 8 weeks.

CARS:
Regarding if there was a male passenger in a car with Jenna (at any time), my opinion is that until it is shown by camera, or backed up by reliable witnesses, I can&#8217;t give a definitive answer.

CAMERAS:
I would like to know more about camera footage. How long does each of the various businesses save their footage? Were the businesses asked by PD quickly enough, before footage was erased / overwritten?

<modsnip>

PD UPDATES TO FAMILY / PUBLIC:
I understand that in ongoing investigations, a lot of the information may be known to PD and not known to the family or the public. I hope the police understand how frustrating it can be for loved ones of the missing to not have updates. It requires a lot of blind trust from the hurting families of missing persons, that the PD is doing everything possible.

IMO

Thank you for this post....sharp....great managers: the first thing they say....I'm sorry I didn't see it right...(talking about LE of course)

 

[Stanly]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Bit of hope, Shiressleuth, & U2forever.

(In My Opinion)

GBI:
Local PD (Dekalb) is currently responsible for Jenna&#8217;s case. To ask another agency to come in and assist has pros and cons. The positive is that there will be added resources. The negative could be the issues that could come along with working with another agency (no longer having complete control over the case).

Perhaps some may think that local PD asking GBI for assistance, somehow, makes the local PD appear not capable of handling the case on their own. Personally, I think if local PD are open to having all assistance from those willing to work with them, that demonstrates that the welfare of their citizens (finding Jenna) is their highest priority.

PINGS:
I also hope that the local PD does have the cell phone ping data from Jenna's phone by now. I still would like to understand why in some cases, ping data is delivered within 24 hours and in other cases, it&#8217;s a minimum of 8 weeks.

CARS:
Regarding if there was a male passenger in a car with Jenna (at any time), my opinion is that until it is shown by camera, or backed up by reliable witnesses, I can&#8217;t give a definitive answer.

CAMERAS:
I would like to know more about camera footage. How long does each of the various businesses save their footage? Were the businesses asked by PD quickly enough, before footage was erased / overwritten?

<modsnip>

PD UPDATES TO FAMILY / PUBLIC:
I understand that in ongoing investigations, a lot of the information may be known to PD and not known to the family or the public. I hope the police understand how frustrating it can be for loved ones of the missing to not have updates. It requires a lot of blind trust from the hurting families of missing persons, that the PD is doing everything possible.

IMO

Hi PenelopeGarcia, lots of excellent new questions! I hope we can get some answers to these soon :-/

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[girlie13]

New post from this morning on the Help Find Jenna Facebook page, shared from her father's page: https://www.facebook.com/HelpFindJennaVG/

"It is now two months since Jenna went missing. We now have detectives working diligently on the case from Dekalb PD with some information on Jenna's car and phone the day she went missing. We cannot disclose more at this time. These cases are tough to solve unless someone talks."

While I certainly understand why the family cannot disclose anything additional, I am hoping that the "information on Jenna's phone" means that the family and LE have the ping data. I am hopeful that LE and the Van Gelderen's are one step closer to finding Jenna.

Subie, as always, if we can do any sleuthing or reach out to officials (political or LE) on your behalf; please know that we are here. Although we have never met Jenna or your family, you have tremendous online support and many of our prayers.

 

[Eileen730]

Everything in this case very VAGUE!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Everything in this case very VAGUE!

I have not been on a thread where there is a VI before. Are such cases usually lacking in case information as much as this one seems to be? I have seen nothing at all put out by LE for example. Anyone got an example of another VI thread I can check out for comparison?

 

[Capebluff]

I have not been on a thread where there is a VI before. Are such cases usually lacking in case information as much as this one seems to be? I have seen nothing at all put out by LE for example. Anyone got an example of another VI thread I can check out for comparison?

Check out Taylor Wright’s thread. She was found deceased Thursday. There were 2 VIs but lacked any info from LE from the start. Come to find out the reason was because they were working their leads. The only thing LE stated, & continued to state all along, was they were working it as a case of a voluntary missing person. They knew different but it would’ve hurt the investigation to release that info.

 

[dalsglen]

Can't believe it's been two months.

 

[Eileen730]

I have not been on a thread where there is a VI before. Are such cases usually lacking in case information as much as this one seems to be? I have seen nothing at all put out by LE for example. Anyone got an example of another VI thread I can check out for comparison?

No we don't seem to be able to get any info on this young woman. Either they don't want us to know things or they don't know themselves.

I have this feeling not many
knew what she was doing and the ones that do know wont tell.
Its all very odd. IYAM

 

[Eileen730]

Check out Taylor Wright&#8217;s thread. She was found deceased Thursday. There were 2 VIs but lacked any info from LE from the start. Come to find out the reason was because they were working their leads. The only thing LE stated, & continued to state all along, was they were working it as a case of a voluntary missing person. They knew different but it would&#8217;ve hurt the investigation to release that info.

But we were told a lot of things in Taylors thread. Many had it all figured out.

 

[bleuboy]

No we don't seem to be able to get any info on this young woman. Either they don't want us to know things or they don't know themselves.

I have this feeling not many
knew what she was doing and the ones that do know wont tell.
Its all very odd. IYAM

I too feel like some things are being hidden/not told. It is hard to know if its the LE or family that are not being forthcoming. I hate saying that but its only my opinion. I really feel for the family if this is all that LE has told them. I think you may be correct about Jenna doing a lot of things that other people knew nothing about (my wording). I think she has a better chance of being found though if everyone could be open and honest. I also know sometimes this isn't possible without affecting the investigation.

 

[Capebluff]

But we were told a lot of things in Taylors thread. Many had it all figured out.

From the VIs, yes! We never heard Ashley’s story or any reference of her speaking to LE, etc. It was easy to figure her case out based on the fact the Ashley was the last person to see her & a large sum of $$ was involved.

I only mentioned her case to Shiresleuth as she mentioned not seeing much word from LE in this case & wondered if it was typical. In Taylor’s case, we definitely didn’t hear hardly anything from LE, except that they thought it was nothing more than she was voluntarily missing.

 

[girlie13]

To all of you that have been following Jenna's case for a while, do you believe that Jenna made it home on Friday night/early Saturday morning?

I know that we have no definitive public evidence that points in either direction but as I think about the case daily, I wrestle with her last location.( I am not speaking here about her last known, verified location; more of just whether or not you think that she made it to her parents' home.)

Based on what little we do know, IMO the public evidence that leans toward her being at the house late that night are:
(1) A reported sighting of Jenna in her mother's red Mazda with an unknown male returning to the home (I have not seen where this was verified)
(2) The presence of shoes that she commonly wore in the home (Subie indicated that they have not been able to determine which shoes she may have worn)

On the other hand, the public evidence IMO that seems to support that Jenna did not make it home or was interrupted shortly after arriving:
(1) Her phone was not placed on a charger long enough to exit the power saving mode

<modsnip>

We also recently learned from Subie that Jenna met with POI #1 at a Handi Mart in East Atlanta late on Friday night. However, to my knowledge, we don't have confirmation on the vehicle that she was driving or the exact location of the Handi Mart (there are several on Atlanta's east side).

Also, we have the issue of the missing tapestry. If the tapestry was there and the frame intact at the gathering Jenna had on Friday night (which has not been publicly verified to my knowledge), the tapestry could have been removed by the responsible individual/s late that Friday night or could they have been at Jenna's parents' house until or even making a trip there <modsnip> on Saturday?

IMO the tapestry was removed as a Red Herring. I do not see any other reason for it to be removed from the home.

I know that it has been really quiet on the Board and we all have more questions than answers. But, I cannot stop thinking about the case and wondered if you all have any theories that we can bounce back and forth on any of the above.