GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

[Capebluff]

To all of you that have been following Jenna's case for a while, do you believe that Jenna made it home on Friday night/early Saturday morning?

I know that we have no definitive public evidence that points in either direction but as I think about the case daily, I wrestle with her last location.( I am not speaking here about her last known, verified location; more of just whether or not you think that she made it to her parents' home.)

Based on what little we do know, IMO the public evidence that leans toward her being at the house late that night are:
(1) A reported sighting of Jenna in her mother's red Mazda with an unknown male returning to the home (I have not seen where this was verified)
(2) The presence of shoes that she commonly wore in the home (Subie indicated that they have not been able to determine which shoes she may have worn)

On the other hand, the public evidence IMO that seems to support that Jenna did not make it home or was interrupted shortly after arriving:
(1) Her phone was not placed on a charger long enough to exit the power saving mode

<modsnip>

We also recently learned from Subie that Jenna met with POI #1 at a Handi Mart in East Atlanta late on Friday night. However, to my knowledge, we don't have confirmation on the vehicle that she was driving or the exact location of the Handi Mart (there are several on Atlanta's east side).

Also, we have the issue of the missing tapestry. If the tapestry was there and the frame intact at the gathering Jenna had on Friday night (which has not been publicly verified to my knowledge), the tapestry could have been removed by the responsible individual/s late that Friday night or could they have been at Jenna's parents' house until or even making a trip there shortly before 7am on Saturday?

IMO the tapestry was removed as a Red Herring. I do not see any other reason for it to be removed from the home.

I know that it has been really quiet on the Board and we all have more questions than answers. But, I cannot stop thinking about the case and wondered if you all have any theories that we can bounce back and forth on any of the above.

It&#8217;s my opinion (nothing more) that Jenna had every intention of being at her parents house through the weekend. Possibly leaving to hang out with friends, meet for lunch, etc., but nothing more than those kinds of things.

Based on the accounts from Subie, the FB page, & comments on MSM links regarding Jenna&#8217;s personality, I feel as though Jenna may be the type of person who thrives off of attention. She wants to feel &#8216;special&#8217;. She loves adoration. She craves it all. She may even seek it out if it&#8217;s not being given by those in her day to day life. This is where it gets scary, IMO. Jenna, as kind & loving as she sounds, may still be more naïve than most her age. Naivety, coupled with a lust for positive attention, is a dangerous thing. She seems to be the type to trust any & every one immediately. She may not pick up on red flags or may dismiss them when a person assures her they&#8217;re a &#8216;good person&#8217;.

All that being said, I do believe Jenna was at her parents home that evening/night. She may have left at some point, but I believe she did make it back to parents. At some point after she had settled in for the night, it&#8217;s my feeling that she received a call/text from someone...this would be providing her some of the attention she craves. Depending on how one words things, they may have propositioned something to her&#8212;being naïve, the lust for attention & the need to fit in/be liked, are all good enough reasons for me to believe she indeed left parents home again to meet someone.

This is ALL MOO & JMO!!!!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Did she go back home?

1. Her shoes were there.
2. Her mother's car was there.
3. Her chargers and wallet were there.
4. Her suitcase/clothes gone
5. Her debit card gone.
6. Her car and keys gone.
7. Door deadlocked.
8. Lights and TV on.
9. Her phones gone.
10.Her glasses gone.
11.The tapestry gone.

Numbers 1, 2 and 3 indicate to me she came home at some point Friday night/Saturday morning. I do not think she left again without any shoes though.

 

[Stanly]

Great posts Capebluff & girlie13 my thoughts exactly with both of you.

I think yes she settled down for the evening and may not have been home long enough to charge her phone

I think there was an altercation at the home and either the tapestry was used after this to either conceal evidence or as a red herring to stage a runaway

From what i saw on the FB page she had 'no shoes' implying ALL her shoes were left behind - SUBIE ARE YOU ABLE TO CONFIRM THIS?

I think that all the main facts (not rumours or hearsay), to me, convince me that someone else purposefully staged the whole scene...i.e dumped Jennas car, gas station stops aswell.

To be brutally honest and i apologise in advance if i cause any distress to our VI....
I think she came to harm at the house and whomever did it threw all her stuff in the car and dumped it. I very much believe she is no longer with us

Regardless of her personality, character, disability and throwing all that aside along with her phone 'locations' im trying to break it down to basics and keep it simple...looking at known definite FACTS.... she is missing, her phone is off, no fb activity, no known communication with friends and family, her daily essentials remain at the house, no clothes and shoes, no transport, no money.... this is why i believe she has come to harm and no longer alive

The whys, hows and by who will then be figured out by all the other details....her friends, her behaviour, phone records.

I do not believe she has been trafficked
I do not believe she is being held against her will

All MO from the very beginning

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[Shiressleuth]

I even think the tapestry glass may have been damaged in the initial confrontation and removed to make it look like J had taken/stolen it then glass put back and all wiped down. The door locking was also done to stage it as if she left of her own volition after stealing the tapestry. AJMO

 

[Stanly]

I even think the tapestry glass may have been damaged in the initial confrontation and removed to make it look like J had taken/stolen it then glass put back and all wiped down. The door locking was also done to stage it as if she left of her own volition after stealing the tapestry. AJMO

Yep!

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[girlie13]

Great posts Capebluff & girlie13 my thoughts exactly with both of you.

I think yes she settled down for the evening and may not have been home long enough to charge her phone

I think there was an altercation at the home and either the tapestry was used after this to either conceal evidence or as a red herring to stage a runaway

From what i saw on the FB page she had 'no shoes' implying ALL her shoes were left behind - SUBIE ARE YOU ABLE TO CONFIRM THIS?

I think that all the main facts (not rumours or hearsay), to me, convince me that someone else purposefully staged the whole scene...i.e dumped Jennas car, gas station stops aswell.

To be brutally honest and i apologise in advance if i cause any distress to our VI....
I think she came to harm at the house and whomever did it threw all her stuff in the car and dumped it. I very much believe she is no longer with us

Regardless of her personality, character, disability and throwing all that aside along with her phone 'locations' im trying to break it down to basics and keep it simple...looking at known definite FACTS.... she is missing, her phone is off, no fb activity, no known communication with friends and family, her daily essentials remain at the house, no clothes and shoes, no transport, no money.... this is why i believe she has come to harm and no longer alive

The whys, hows and by who will then be figured out by all the other details....her friends, her behaviour, phone records.

I do not believe she has been trafficked
I do not believe she is being held against her will

All MO from the very beginning

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I am hoping that Subie can confirm on the shoes. I looked back in this thread and when asked about the shoes, Subie stated that "We have not gotten any info on what shoes she had been wearing that night." (Post 482)

And, I also continue to wonder about the posts to the FB page seeking information on the contents of Jenna's bedroom at her apartment. If it now appears that Jenna had a bedroom vs. just sleeping on the couch and that furniture is suddenly missing, I have to wonder if she left her parents to go "home" after meeting someone and an altercation occurred there in the apartment. The individual/s responsible may have then used Jenna's keys to begin staging the parent's home for the runaway scenario. However, this would also imply some specific knowledge of where her parents lived. Possibly because of attendance at the gathering on Thursday??

<modsnip>

I also wish we knew the times of those gas station stops. Were they before or after her meeting at the Handi Mart?

I am hopeful that the recording and cell phone data has LE working around the clock to find Jenna and answer the why, how and who questions.

 

[noseynellie]

The cars were switched at some point so unless someone else did it, she made it back to the house, imo. Seat configuration seems to me that she was the person who drove it to the house and I think it was parked in the usual spot but correct me if wrong.

Was the switch before or after meeting with ex? If after, could she have brought him back with her?

It sounds like she was in mom's car until at least 11 p.m. based on Wendy's straw wrapper, friend recollection at 10:30 and Subie's post 848 that says she stopped at the Wendy's after the North/Northside stop, which was around 10, while on her way back to her apartment. BP stop right near her apartment was around 11.

Subie mentioned the route she took to meet ex looked similar to the one she usually took to get to his place. It sounds like maybe she was coming from her apartment, but maybe he could confirm.

It would've been nice if LE had found a print on the passenger side of her mom's car to determine who was sitting there when the seat was pushed back.

If she came back to the house alone then something or someone got her back out in her car, whether by choice or not. If so, why the switch to her car after she'd been driving her mom's all night?


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[Angleterre]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Bit of hope, Shiressleuth, & U2forever.

(In My Opinion)

GBI:
Local PD (Dekalb) is currently responsible for Jenna&#8217;s case. To ask another agency to come in and assist has pros and cons. The positive is that there will be added resources. The negative could be the issues that could come along with working with another agency (no longer having complete control over the case).

Perhaps some may think that local PD asking GBI for assistance, somehow, makes the local PD appear not capable of handling the case on their own. Personally, I think if local PD are open to having all assistance from those willing to work with them, that demonstrates that the welfare of their citizens (finding Jenna) is their highest priority.

PINGS:
I also hope that the local PD does have the cell phone ping data from Jenna's phone by now. I still would like to understand why in some cases, ping data is delivered within 24 hours and in other cases, it&#8217;s a minimum of 8 weeks.

CARS:
Regarding if there was a male passenger in a car with Jenna (at any time), my opinion is that until it is shown by camera, or backed up by reliable witnesses, I can&#8217;t give a definitive answer.

CAMERAS:
I would like to know more about camera footage. How long does each of the various businesses save their footage? Were the businesses asked by PD quickly enough, before footage was erased / overwritten?

<modsnip>

PD UPDATES TO FAMILY / PUBLIC:
I understand that in ongoing investigations, a lot of the information may be known to PD and not known to the family or the public. I hope the police understand how frustrating it can be for loved ones of the missing to not have updates. It requires a lot of blind trust from the hurting families of missing persons, that the PD is doing everything possible.

IMO

Welcome Penelope Garcia

[emoji253]

You raise some good points

I would like to try to address one of your points about PINGS

I'm not in the USA but the UK and I always counter my posts with 'the law may be different ' in your country compared to mine.

In the UK, PINGS or PING data can be applied for and obtained/received within a very short time frame (talking an hour or so ) if and only if, you believe the person to be in immediate danger of very serious injury / harm or death.

Now that can be subject to different perspectives and people's own opinions but it's tightly regulated between LE and the Phone companies.

Anything outside of this category is generally on a 'sliding scale' as to when the request is processed. Some phone companies attitudes are if the person is believed to be deceased then there is no urgency ( although I don't concur with that view for many different reasons ).

As I said, I don't know if it's the same in the USA but it may help you to understand. Welcome !


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[Shiressleuth]

Why the car switch?

Someone apparently told her not to bring her mum's car to meet him.
This was Person 3 - see timeline - who said this in interviews and who Subie linked to the pocket dials at 11 & 11.50 p.m. and to a pimping instagram profile. He claims she did not meet him. So who was in the mum's car with her if she did not meet him? And who drove J's car with the seat back? This seems to be the only reason she came back to the house -to swop cars. Maybe pop into house to check cat then something happens.

Why was car left containing suitcase and belongings, out of gas with driver's seat pushed back?

Why was mum's car passenger seat pushed right back?

Would J have gone back to house, with a passenger, just to swap cars and then go back to town again without charging her phones. Why do that? It was either because she was incapacited or because a red car was undesirable for where she was going.

<modsnip>
AJMO

 

[noseynellie]

Why the car switch?

Someone apparently told her not to bring her mum's car to meet him.
This was Person 3 - see timeline - who said this in interviews and who Subie linked to the pocket dials at 11 & 11.50 p.m. and to a pimping instagram profile. He claims she did not meet him. So who was in the mum's car with her if she did not meet him? And who drove J's car with the seat back? This seems to be the only reason she came back to the house -to swop cars. Maybe pop into house to check cat then something happens.

Why was car left containing suitcase and belongings, out of gas with driver's seat pushed back?

Why was mum's car passenger seat pushed right back?

Would J have gone back to house, with a passenger, just to swap cars and then go back to town again without charging her phones. Why do that? It was either because she was incapacited or because a red car was undesirable for where she was going.

<modsnip>
AJMO

I understood the car switch was related to the pocket dialer but didn't he say he'd meet her closer to her apartment so she wouldn't have to switch cars? That was supposed to be earlier in the night, to my understanding.

The location she wasn't to bring the mom's car was College Park. Maybe there was a change of plans and he could've gone back to that area later and after meeting ex, going back to the house and switching cars, she met him there. Otherwise, I'm wondering if there was a different reason for the switch.

Sorry in advance but I don't remember how we know she didn't charge her phone. Was it something with the calls going to voicemail? I can't remember.


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[Shiressleuth]

I understood the car switch was related to the pocket dialer but didn't he say he'd meet her closer to her apartment so she wouldn't have to switch cars? That was supposed to be earlier in the night, to my understanding.

The location she wasn't to bring the mom's car was College Park. Maybe there was a change of plans and he could've gone back to that area later and after meeting ex, going back to the house and switching cars, she met him there. Otherwise, I'm wondering if there was a different reason for the switch.

Sorry in advance but I don't remember how we know she didn't charge her phone. Was it something with the calls going to voicemail? I can't remember.


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According to time line person 3 then changed meeting place to Lindbergh, which is near her apartment but she didn't show. Phones died and went to voice mail yes - I don't remember exact times but it is in time line I think.
We don't know exact time of car switch only that when Subie arrived Saturday a.m. J's car wasn't there but it had been there Friday a.m.

 

[noseynellie]

According to time line person 3 then changed meeting place to Lindbergh, which is near her apartment but she didn't show. Phones died and went to voice mail yes - I don't remember exact times but it is in time line I think.
We don't know exact time of car switch only that when Subie arrived Saturday a.m. J's car wasn't there but it had been there Friday a.m.

Right, we don't know exact time but it looks like it was at least after 11 and if she went to meet the ex from the direction of her apartment, maybe even after midnight before she could've got back and switched.

Lindbergh is near her apartment so that means she wouldn't have had to switch cars to meet him there.

When did the phones die? She supposedly sent a text at 2 a.m. Certain phones might not hold a charge that long, regardless if the person charged them up that night. I'm just trying to understand the significance of charging to determine anything.


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[PenelopeGarcia]

Question: Is the link to the Prime Time Justice on HLN, which contains the mid-Sept interview of Jenna’s parents by Ashleigh Banfield, allowed to be posted on the thread? Has it already been posted?

Theory #1:
Jenna, while in mother’s car, drove to meet her boyfriend near his home on the West side of Atlanta.

Police interviewed Boyfriend. Boyfriend told police that he broke up with Jenna that night. He also said that Jenna was driving her mother’s car at the time. He went on to disparage her reputation to the police.

I think that Boyfriend gets into Mother’s car with Jenna. I think Jenna drives herself & boyfriend back to her parent’s home. I think that something goes wrong at Jenna’s parent’s home. I think Boyfriend is the one who responds to the text to the friend out of state at 2am. I think Boyfriend puts Jenna, purse, luggage, her 2 cell phones, and cloth from frame into Jenna’s car. I think Boyfriend drives Jenna’s car.

I think Boyfriend dumps Jenna, the cloth & her cellphones somewhere, and dumps the car on Defoor. I think that Boyfriend then throws away the keys somewhere.

The distance between where the car was found abandoned and where Jenna met the boyfriend on Friday night is about 4 miles (9 minutes by car). That meeting site was very close to the boyfriend’s place of residence.

Why are people not focused on the boyfriend?

It seems the attention should be on someone (boyfriend) who:

1 – is the last one to admit seeing her that night,
2 – says he broke up with her that night,
3 – who said awful things about her reputation (that has never been proven true)?

Why was everyone so quick to believe the negative things about a missing woman said by a potential male suspect?

I hope law enforcement is focused on him, and the public is possibly / purposely not in the loop.

 

[flute4peace]

Question: Is the link to the Prime Time Justice on HLN, which contains the mid-Sept interview of Jenna’s parents by Ashleigh Banfield, allowed to be posted on the thread? Has it already been posted?

Theory #1:
Jenna, while in mother’s car, drove to meet her boyfriend near his home on the West side of Atlanta.

Police interviewed Boyfriend. Boyfriend told police that he broke up with Jenna that night. He also said that Jenna was driving her mother’s car at the time. He went on to disparage her reputation to the police.

I think that Boyfriend gets into Mother’s car with Jenna. I think Jenna drives herself & boyfriend back to her parent’s home. I think that something goes wrong at Jenna’s parent’s home. I think Boyfriend is the one who responds to the text to the friend out of state at 2am. I think Boyfriend puts Jenna, purse, luggage, her 2 cell phones, and cloth from frame into Jenna’s car. I think Boyfriend drives Jenna’s car.

I think Boyfriend dumps Jenna, the cloth & her cellphones somewhere, and dumps the car on Defoor. I think that Boyfriend then throws away the keys somewhere.

The distance between where the car was found abandoned and where Jenna met the boyfriend on Friday night is about 4 miles (9 minutes by car). That meeting site was very close to the boyfriend’s place of residence.

Why are people not focused on the boyfriend?

It seems the attention should be on someone (boyfriend) who:

1 – is the last one to admit seeing her that night,
2 – says he broke up with her that night,
3 – who said awful things about her reputation (that has never been proven true)?

Why was everyone so quick to believe the negative things about a missing woman said by a potential male suspect?

I hope law enforcement is focused on him, and the public is possibly / purposely not in the loop.

This really seems to make the most sense.

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[noseynellie]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why she might've met ex boyfriend at the Handi mart if his house was so close and she had been there before? Why not just meet at his house?


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[Shiressleuth]

This really seems to make the most sense.

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Except he is denying she showed up. This is why phones and any cctv are important to determine the truth . That is LE's job.

@ Penelope- Many of us disbelieved the prostitution and trafficking theories right off the bat and have said so in the thread. Some have said she could have been duped into it like she was apparently duped into stealing from her register and sending money via Western Union to one person. She kept secrets - her family didn't know where she lived. She is trusting. Take all this together and at the very least she has been exploited. That doesn't matter however - LE need to find her and hopefully they will.

AJMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why she might've met ex boyfriend at the Handi mart if his house was so close and she had been there before? Why not just meet at his house?


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Maybe they needed some essentials and were off to a party? An eclipse party near Lindbergh was mentioned up thread. Anyway she didnt turn up according to him so lets hope they have the meet up on cam. MOO.

 

[pattysleuth]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why she might've met ex boyfriend at the Handi mart if his house was so close and she had been there before? Why not just meet at his house?


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The only reason i can think of is she was afraid of him and wanted to meet at a neutral location, its too bad we do not have the amounts of the transactions at all the locations! Maybe she met him there and bought a soft drink.
On the shoe situation, girls her age have many shoes and maybe she put on a pair of shoes that she had in the car. My Daughter gets shoes flip flops for $5-6 - and it was very hot in August in Atlanta for sneakers.
<modsnip> Also has anyone asked how many miles were on the speedometer of her car when found? I keep records of mileage with oil changes - i just wonder if she went with someone to North or South Carolina to see the eclipse for a few days and something happened up there either voluntarilly or not. Then they saw all the facebook posts regarding the car and decided to dump it back in Atlanta close to her locations, so we wouldnt be clued into her location with the car.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The only reason i can think of is she was afraid of him and wanted to meet at a neutral location, its too bad we do not have the amounts of the transactions at all the locations! Maybe she met him there and bought a soft drink.
On the shoe situation, girls her age have many shoes and maybe she put on a pair of shoes that she had in the car. My Daughter gets shoes flip flops for $5-6 - and it was very hot in August in Atlanta for sneakers.
<modsnip> Also has anyone asked how many miles were on the speedometer of her car when found? I keep records of mileage with oil changes - i just wonder if she went with someone to North or South Carolina to see the eclipse for a few days and something happened up there either voluntarilly or not. Then they saw all the facebook posts regarding the car and decided to dump it back in Atlanta close to her locations, so we wouldnt be clued into her location with the car.

I can't see how the mileage is relevant unless there is a very recent service record with the mileage on it.

Re the eclipse, this has been talked about and as she knew she had to be there for the cat the next day, I cannot see her going very far away and doing that. Also her car's insurance had not been renewed 1 Sep ? so that is prob why she was driving her mums car. JMO.

 

[Stanly]

I can't see how the mileage is relevant unless there is a very recent service record with the mileage on it.

Re the eclipse, this has been talked about and as she knew she had to be there for the cat the next day, I cannot see her going very far away and doing that. Also her car's insurance had not been renewed 1 Aug so that is prob why she was driving her mums car. JMO.

I keep forgetting that re:insurance. I think she used her mums car that eve, went back to her parents house to settle for the night with or without someone and then came to harm at the house etc..as i posted before.

Though, i still find it odd that she was using her car up until that point if there was no insurance so im not sure why that night would be any different and she would feel the need to use her mums.

I keep going to write questions.....but then remembering i probably wont get any answers. I will ask anyway.. have Jenna's personal items from the car been returned yet and have they been tested? Also, i want to know why no known searches have taken place? There are resources, volunteers willing to help.



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