GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #4

[Stanly]

The latest facebook and twitter posts all imply that she was last "seen" in "Atlanta" on 8/19. There has also been more focus on Saturday morning as in "Again if any of Jenna's friends or friends of friends have any information as to who may have been in contact with her that Saturday morning". I wonder if they are being loose with the terminology and mean "heard from" not "seen" and "Decatur" not "Atlanta" or if she was really last seen on Saturday morning in Atlanta. I wish a family member or LE would clarify.

IIRC it was stated 'Jennas car was seen....' that could mean that she, herself wasnt seen on that camera?

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[BlkMtnGirl]

In most cases I would say, "No way," but in this case, I think it's a real possibility that she has already been found deceased but that her murder is connected to organized crime in some way. (I don't mean to suggest that the motive for her murder is related to organized crime; it may just be that her murderer is part of a criminal organization.) If the feds are building a RICO case against a group of people, they might pressure the state to postpone filing murder charges.

It's also possible that they haven't found Jenna but that they know who murdered her and are playing their cards very close to the vest because they intend to seek the death penalty against someone once Jenna is found.

FYI, human trafficking was added to the list of RICO crimes...
https://polarisproject.org/current-federal-laws

 

[Shiressleuth]

IIRC it was stated 'Jennas car was seen....' that could mean that she, herself wasnt seen on that camera?

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Yes, it was that her car was last seen Saturday morning in West Atlanta.

FYI, human trafficking was added to the list of RICO crimes...
https://polarisproject.org/current-federal-laws

What does RICO mean? (Link doesn't work for me )

 

[Ozoner]

Yes, it was that her car was last seen Saturday morning in West Atlanta.



What does RICO mean? (Link doesn't work for me )

RICO is an acronym for "The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act." It's basically a federal law that gives the US government a bigger hammer to use to go after organized crime.

 

[bleuboy]

I have had to step away from this case more than once. It is the most frustrating case I've followed. You would think we would have got further with a VI but to me that seemed to have everyone chasing their tales. I want to be very careful and not seem like I'm implying anything but, when police get that first call about needing assistance, that is when their case begins.
If we scrap everything we already know and this was all fresh maybe we can think how the police conducts an investigation. (I know they have not investigated Jenna's normally)
When they get that phone call in is analysed.
Everyone is treated as a possible subject until ruled out.
Who is last person to have seen victim.
Who was last to have spoke/interacted with victim on phone/social media.
Any recent arguments or jealousy shown towards victim.
Did victim show any reason to be unhappy/disgruntled/smothered with anyone she was close with, either family/friends or partners.
Any know problems that victim spoke about or shown in the way she behaved leading up to the incident.
Does anyone ie, friends/partner/family have any reason to manipulate the information/evidence in the investigation.

I'm sure these are normally questions we like the answers to on websleuths when there is a missing person so I'm sure the police would want and analyze these answers to.
I really feel like the LE are purposefully keeping the family out of the loop, but I don't know if its because they don't think Jenna is missing or they think someone close to her is somehow involved.
I'm not saying its one way or the other what I believe but I'm just trying to think why LE are dragging their feet and not treating Jenna with importance.
Sorry for long post :blushing:

 

[charminglane]

I have had to step away from this case more than once. It is the most frustrating case I've followed. You would think we would have got further with a VI but to me that seemed to have everyone chasing their tales. I want to be very careful and not seem like I'm implying anything but, when police get that first call about needing assistance, that is when their case begins.
If we scrap everything we already know and this was all fresh maybe we can think how the police conducts an investigation. (I know they have not investigated Jenna's normally)
When they get that phone call in is analysed.
Everyone is treated as a possible subject until ruled out.
Who is last person to have seen victim.
Who was last to have spoke/interacted with victim on phone/social media.
Any recent arguments or jealousy shown towards victim.
Did victim show any reason to be unhappy/disgruntled/smothered with anyone she was close with, either family/friends or partners.
Any know problems that victim spoke about or shown in the way she behaved leading up to the incident.
Does anyone ie, friends/partner/family have any reason to manipulate the information/evidence in the investigation.

I'm sure these are normally questions we like the answers to on websleuths when there is a missing person so I'm sure the police would want and analyze these answers to.
I really feel like the LE are purposefully keeping the family out of the loop, but I don't know if its because they don't think Jenna is missing or they think someone close to her is somehow involved.
I'm not saying its one way or the other what I believe but I'm just trying to think why LE are dragging their feet and not treating Jenna with importance.
Sorry for long post :blushing:

Thank you for saying this!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Re bleuboy 's post
Very good points which we should address.
The very first point about when J was reported missing. Why the delay in that if she was noticed missing on the Saturday a.m. and wvg could not reach her by phone yet the lights and TV were on? Something is up right there especially as parents stated they spoke to her daily. When did they all actually last speak to her? How was she when they last spoke to her?

That's not even known right?

 

[Stanly]

Re bleuboy 's post
Very good points which we should address.
The very first point about when J was reported missing. Why the delay in that if she was noticed missing on the Saturday a.m. and wvg could not reach her by phone yet the lights and TV were on? Something is up right there especially as parents stated they spoke to her daily. When did they all actually last speak to her? How was she when they last spoke to her?

That's not even known right?

And vet tech.... Not saying vet tech is 'off' but the whole vet tech situation is 'off'. Plans were made but things changed. Coincidentally the time Jenna goes missing.
People claim to have spoken to her, her car was spotted that night and in the morning but did anyone see her?

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[Fiddle]

And vet tech.... Not saying vet tech is 'off' but the whole vet tech situation is 'off'. Plans were made but things changed. Coincidentally the time Jenna goes missing.
People claim to have spoken to her, her car was spotted that night and in the morning but did anyone see her?

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Stanly, I am curious as to what you mean by "plans changed." I don't recall any plans changing. It was my understanding that brother was doing morning meds and vet tech doing afternoon ones and that seemed to be the pattern on both friday and saturday.
Also was "her" car spotted on fri night or just her mother's. If it was her car, then I missed something.
Just clarifying since I think I missed something.

 

[Stanly]

Stanly, I am curious as to what you mean by "plans changed." I don't recall any plans changing. It was my understanding that brother was doing morning meds and vet tech doing afternoon ones and that seemed to be the pattern on both friday and saturday.
Also was "her" car spotted on fri night or just her mother's. If it was her car, then I missed something.
Just clarifying since I think I missed something.

I think i have confused myself with the plans for the meds. I need to have a look back... i think it was because i was thinking about the actual time the house was in 'disarray' etc... because both brother and vet tech were there so i need to look back.
There was mention of Jenna being spotted in her car with a man(?) And the 'swapping' of cars. Again i need to look back but my post was from memory as im (supposed to be) at work


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[Fiddle]

Re bleuboy 's post
Very good points which we should address.
The very first point about when J was reported missing. Why the delay in that if she was noticed missing on the Saturday a.m. and wvg could not reach her by phone yet the lights and TV were on? Something is up right there especially as parents stated they spoke to her daily. When did they all actually last speak to her? How was she when they last spoke to her?

That's not even known right?

I have kids that age and I don't necessarily agree that I would assume something was up as in call the police immediately that Saturday morning. My assumption would be a) she slept over at a friends house and left lights and tv on b) she went to buy breakfast c) her phone is in her purse d) her battery died e) her phone is lost or stolen. I would be panicked but I would not rush to call the cops. At that age they are adults and don't account for their every movement. While they may be in touch with us daily, it is normally just a quick text or a call to say hello or ask a question and not necessarily a detailed chat.
If after being unable to reach her by that night, I would probably stay at the house to see if she came home or leave a message on the door to call me immediately. Since she was on a family plan, I would access the usage to find last people called or texted and follow up with them. I would definitely call her best friend. I might even assume she went away for the weekend without letting me know and organized someone to look after the cat. If none of those yielded anything I would call the hospitals and jails. And only after all that would I call the police. I have no idea if wvg did any of those things before calling the police on Sunday. Just my 2 cents as the parent of young adults.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Stanly, I am curious as to what you mean by "plans changed." I don't recall any plans changing. It was my understanding that brother was doing morning meds and vet tech doing afternoon ones and that seemed to be the pattern on both friday and saturday.
Also was "her" car spotted on fri night or just her mother's. If it was her car, then I missed something.
Just clarifying since I think I missed something.

Subie said he saw both J and her car Friday p.m. and witnesses and Subie provided the info about her driving mum's car with a male passenger. That last bit was even on the first flyer. I don't know the source for that flyer but Subie confirmed it on here as well.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have kids that age and I don't necessarily agree that I would assume something was up as in call the police immediately that Saturday morning. My assumption would be a) she slept over at a friends house and left lights and tv on b) she went to buy breakfast c) her phone is in her purse d) her battery died e) her phone is lost or stolen. I would be panicked but I would not rush to call the cops. At that age they are adults and don't account for their every movement. While they may be in touch with us daily, it is normally just a quick text or a call to say hello or ask a question and not necessarily a detailed chat.
If after being unable to reach her by that night, I would probably stay at the house to see if she came home or leave a message on the door to call me immediately. Since she was on a family plan, I would access the usage to find last people called or texted and follow up with them. I would definitely call her best friend. I might even assume she went away for the weekend without letting me know and organized someone to look after the cat. If none of those yielded anything I would call the hospitals and jails. And only after all that would I call the police. I have no idea if wvg did any of those things before calling the police on Sunday. Just my 2 cents as the parent of young adults.

She was house and cat sitting. She was also vulnerable. She was supposed to be there but wasn't and couldn't be contacted either. House in disarray too. When did her parents last speak to her? The plans that changed were the ones that meant she would be there for the cat and vet .
Also don't forget they did not know where she lived or that she had a second phone.

 

[Stanly]

Stanly, I am curious as to what you mean by "plans changed." I don't recall any plans changing. It was my understanding that brother was doing morning meds and vet tech doing afternoon ones and that seemed to be the pattern on both friday and saturday.
Also was "her" car spotted on fri night or just her mother's. If it was her car, then I missed something.
Just clarifying since I think I missed something.

This is what i was referring to (timeline by BOH at the start of this thread)..

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13775172


I cant make sense of what happened on that saturday. So the brother was doing mornings and vet tech doing afternoons....

but on that saturday the brother tried to call Jenna at 9:30, vet tech turned up (plans changed then?) and couldnt get in so called the brother, who then turned up and found the house in disarray.

Also mentioned in the timeline about the brother realised at a wedding later that something was up. What made him think something was up? Who administered meds saturday afternoon?

Yes its going back over old stuff but im still not finding it very clear.



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[Bit of hope]

This is what i was referring to (timeline by BOH at the start of this thread)..

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13775172


I cant make sense of what happened on that saturday. So the brother was doing mornings and vet tech doing afternoons....

but on that saturday the brother tried to call Jenna at 9:30, vet tech turned up (plans changed then?) and couldnt get in so called the brother, who then turned up and found the house in disarray.

Also mentioned in the timeline about the brother realised at a wedding later that something was up. What made him think something was up? Who administered meds saturday afternoon?

Yes its going back over old stuff but im still not finding it very clear.



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Hi Stanly, in the last interview with dad Leon they were also talking about this. Listening to this the situation sounds much more logical to me. Can't recall the exact words....

 

[Stanly]

Hi Stanly, in the last interview with dad Leon they were also talking about this. Listening to this the situation sounds much more logical to me. Can't recall the exact words....

Thank you. I will have another listen

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[Shiressleuth]

Hi Stanly, in the last interview with dad Leon they were also talking about this. Listening to this the situation sounds much more logical to me. Can't recall the exact words....

It maybe a good idea to do a transcript of the interview. Any volunteers?
Also has anyone got the link ?

 

[Bit of hope]

It maybe a good idea to do a transcript of the interview. Any volunteers?
Also has anyone got the link ?

Link http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1174ufil.html
I did a part of it. have to look back up the thread....

and this is it....

From the interview episode 105 with Jenna’s father, Jenna’s father speaking.

“One thing we haven’t touched on that is interesting about this case and I think that other parents in this situation need to be aware off
Because I had access to her phone, T-Mobile was able to let me ghost a new phone with her phonenumber. And my son who’s technology savvy was able to change all her passwords and get into all her Google and G-mail account, everything, and we turned all that information over to the police, because I didn’t know how much information Google collects on somebody including timeline, recorded chat, you name it. There was a trove of information. And when we gave it to the police they said well you got it illegally, we can’t look at it, your daughter might sue you over this.
I’m an attorney and to this day --to this day!-- the information that we have given them, they keep ignoring it. They had hundreds of pages that we have given them that we got from online sources. I’ve been reading enough other cases where other parents have done the same thing and access the account right away cause you can pull it up online and right away see who were the last calls and it’s essential.. most people don’t realize that if the phone has ‘location’ turned on that Google is tracking the phone and has a timeline…and that information is invaluable and we had that information and gave it to the police. As recently -as a couple offweek ago- they were still questioning whether I owned the account, although we gave them all the information. “

 

[Henry2326]

"Your daughter might sue us".....

If spoken by LE, they assume she is alive and well. Wonder what evidence they have that leads them to that conclusion...

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[Ozoner]

"Your daughter might sue us".....

If spoken by LE, they assume she is alive and well. Wonder what evidence they have that leads them to that conclusion...

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. . . or just that they weren't (at that point in time) willing to assume that she was dead.