GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[Quell]

I wonder if they did door to door enquiries of those who lived near or on the route of Katie's last walk? did they get any cctv footage from around that area? I wonder what the witnesses who were seen on camera at the park said? in particular the jogger who must surely have seen something??

I remember early-on a rep for APD mentioned old-fashioned, door-to-door canvassing. Exactly what all that entailed, nqs.

My guess is the killer came up from the park side and won’t show up on any 10th Steet ring cameras etc. If that was the trajectory he could have left the same way…lots of path ways there that would facilitate his entry/exit undetected.

It’s hard to fathom that the jogger didn’t at least see Bowie. Iirc where KJ was found was deep under tree canopy that’s quite dark at night so can see how he might’ve missed her.

To me, the killer was so strategic. He must have sized up the area over time to suss out that section of the park that’s both sheltered and dark depending on moon phase and shockingly close to traffic (pedestrian and car).

The killer knows Piedmont Park very, very well.

 

[TL4S]

I wonder if the killer is still in Atlanta. Despite a lot of convincing arguments against it, I still question the possibility of a homeless/transient person who might have simply moved on. It just feels extraordinarily deviant, like someone who is totally out of their mind and unlikely to possess the ability to live a normal or stable life. I'm speculating, of course, and could be wholly incorrect.

 

[PrairieWind]

I remember early-on a rep for APD mentioned old-fashioned, door-to-door canvassing. Exactly what all that entailed, nqs.

My guess is the killer came up from the park side and won’t show up on any 10th Steet ring cameras etc. If that was the trajectory he could have left the same way…lots of path ways there that would facilitate his entry/exit undetected.

It’s hard to fathom that the jogger didn’t at least see Bowie. Iirc where KJ was found was deep under tree canopy that’s quite dark at night so can see how he might’ve missed her.

To me, the killer was so strategic. He must have sized up the area over time to suss out that section of the park that’s both sheltered and dark depending on moon phase and shockingly close to traffic (pedestrian and car).

The killer knows Piedmont Park very, very well.

I agree: the killer knew the park well.

 

[PrairieWind]

The killer could have come in to the park anywhere at anytime. Could have entered a main gate hours before and is just another visitor. But if he left through the 10th or 12st gate we would see him. The camera that caught Katie and Bowie at the rainbow crosswalk could have captured the image of someone following her, but I assuming that didn't happen.

 

[Quell]

The killer could have come in to the park anywhere at anytime. Could have entered a main gate hours before and is just another visitor. But if he left through the 10th or 12st gate we would see him. The camera that caught Katie and Bowie at the rainbow crosswalk could have captured the image of someone following her, but I assuming that didn't happen.

@PrairieWind
How much time have you spent in
Piedmont Park and the surrounds?

 

[PrairieWind]

@PrairieWind
How much time have you spent in
Piedmont Park and the surrounds?

I have never been there. All I know about the park is what I have learned from people chatting here and google earth and youtube videos of the park.

 

[Quell]

I wonder if the killer is still in Atlanta. Despite a lot of convincing arguments against it, I still question the possibility of a homeless/transient person who might have simply moved on. It just feels extraordinarily deviant, like someone who is totally out of their mind and unlikely to possess the ability to live a normal or stable life. I'm speculating, of course, and could be wholly incorrect.

It does feel extraordinarily deviant.

I definitely see an inability to lead a normal, stable life. I also see them likely unhoused, transient and living rough most of the time. Likely even separate from the homeless community. Deranged but with total mental acuity for tracking/stalking/killing and covering tracks. A hunter.

That’s why the back side of the park stands out to me as entry/exit. Lots of nooks, crannies and less developed spots. Easier to avoid detection. Definitely paths behind Ansley Mall where he could make it to 75/85. Unhoused folks living along there.

Maybe he has moved on. That would make the most sense as nothing else on par with this crime has happened in the ATL since.

But the crime vibes out as if the killer made a serious, over-time investment in knowing the PP terrain. What are the chances his ROI is just one human and one dog as victims?

 

[PrairieWind]

It does feel extraordinarily deviant.

I definitely see an inability to lead a normal, stable life. I also see them likely unhoused, transient and living rough most of the time. Likely even separate from the homeless community. Deranged but with total mental acuity for tracking/stalking/killing and covering tracks. A hunter.

That’s why the back side of the park stands out to me as entry/exit. Lots of nooks, crannies and less developed spots. Easier to avoid detection. Definitely paths behind Ansley Mall where he could make it to 75/85. Unhoused folks living along there.

Maybe he has moved on. That would make the most sense as nothing else on par with this crime has happened in the ATL since.

But the crime vibes out as if the killer made a serious, over-time investment in knowing the PP terrain. What are the chances his ROI is just one human and one dog as victims?

I hope the police canvased and spoke with as many homeless folks in the area as they could. Homeless folks there could have seen something, almost seems like they must have. But of course they are often very reluctant to talk to police.

 

[TL4S]

It does feel extraordinarily deviant.

I definitely see an inability to lead a normal, stable life. I also see them likely unhoused, transient and living rough most of the time. Likely even separate from the homeless community. Deranged but with total mental acuity for tracking/stalking/killing and covering tracks. A hunter.

That’s why the back side of the park stands out to me as entry/exit. Lots of nooks, crannies and less developed spots. Easier to avoid detection. Definitely paths behind Ansley Mall where he could make it to 75/85. Unhoused folks living along there.

Maybe he has moved on. That would make the most sense as nothing else on par with this crime has happened in the ATL since.

But the crime vibes out as if the killer made a serious, over-time investment in knowing the PP terrain. What are the chances his ROI is just one human and one dog as victims?

That's interesting information, from a local, about areas near the park that might be less visible as an entry point, and also the location of some of the unhoused folks in the community. Even if he's transient, I suppose he could have been in the PP area for awhile, maybe knew that spot specifically, but isn't recognized by LE as a problem.

You do have to wonder about other victims, due to the nature of the crime. In this case, he killed and left the victim in an open and public location, not trying to hide anything. Seems someone with that mindset would have something easily connecting them to other crimes, if they had committed them. It's so odd.

 

[Quell]

That's interesting information, from a local, about areas near the park that might be less visible as an entry point, and also the location of some of the unhoused folks in the community. Even if he's transient, I suppose he could have been in the PP area for awhile, maybe knew that spot specifically, but isn't recognized by LE as a problem.

You do have to wonder about other victims, due to the nature of the crime. In this case, he killed and left the victim in an open and public location, not trying to hide anything. Seems someone with that mindset would have something easily connecting them to other crimes, if they had committed them. It's so odd.

Yeah, it’s like he’s a newbie (to my knowledge no other similar crimes on radar) and pro-level (ie prominent location/type of killing/stumping LE for 2yrs) at the exact same time.

 

[fred&edna]

Yeah, it’s like he’s a newbie (to my knowledge no other similar crimes on radar) and pro-level (ie prominent location/type of killing/stumping LE for 2yrs) at the exact same time.

Exactly. It's interesting there are no similar murders in VICAP. It's a good thing but unsettling. imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

It's sad to see there hasn't been any progress made in this case. I figured with some surveillance footage and the amount of activity in that area (even during the late hour) someone would have seen something.

Also, how can there be no DNA that we know of? The killer committed a very bloody carving of the body, often they will cut themselves also during the act. That tells me this perp is not in CODIS.

Such a strange and unsettling case. I hope something breaks for family and loved ones.

 

[PrairieWind]

It's sad to see there hasn't been any progress made in this case. I figured with some surveillance footage and the amount of activity in that area (even during the late hour) someone would have seen something.

Also, how can there be no DNA that we know of? The killer committed a very bloody carving of the body, often they will cut themselves also during the act. That tells me this perp is not in CODIS.

Such a strange and unsettling case. I hope something breaks for family and loved ones.

I think we mostly agree that there just has to be some sort of DNA left by the killer. But as you said, it just isn't matching anything yet. Eventually, I think, a match will be made. But if there isn't any DNA.... yikes! It is frightening to think a crime like this can go unsolved.

 

[Snoop Sister]

dbm

 

[Snoop Sister]

Contrary to what many believe on here, I believe that the killer was someone who was aware or known to Katherine. If not known to Katherine…someone who watched her movements for awhile.

 

[Yemelyan]

It's sad to see there hasn't been any progress made in this case. I figured with some surveillance footage and the amount of activity in that area (even during the late hour) someone would have seen something.

Also, how can there be no DNA that we know of? The killer committed a very bloody carving of the body, often they will cut themselves also during the act. That tells me this perp is not in CODIS.

Such a strange and unsettling case. I hope something breaks for family and loved ones.

Bolded by me - chances are, the perpetrator's DNA was there at the scene (as you pointed out, it's highly likely that the person injured themselves during the commission of this crime); however, there are three major factors that are probably hindering LE's ability to actually detect and develop a DNA profile that could be compared to anything in CODIS; the very bloody nature of the scene in general, the fact that it's an outdoor scene, and whether or not they have recovered the weapon.

Let's say a murderer stabs someone and cuts himself in the process. The likely place technicians will find his blood is on the weapon itself. They will focus their testing on areas where he would have held the weapon or where his blood could have logically ended up. Barring having a weapon to test, at an indoor scene they can look for blood droplets or smears near door jambs, window sills, or near areas where they feel the murderer exited (and where it doesn't appear the victim went). At an indoor scene, it will be easier to recreate the murderer's path through the scene and easier to pinpoint what's likely to be his blood versus victim's blood. Now imagine an outdoor scene that is extraordinarily bloody. My hope would be that they were able to detect blood drops moving away from the scene that could only belong to the perpetrator. But if they didn't, and all they have to work with is great swaths of blood left on and around the victim's body, it's going to be very difficult because the large amount of the victim's blood compared to what was shed by the perpetrator means that the perpetrator's DNA loses signal strength. They can't test every bit of a (for example) 2 foot by 3 foot stain. They have to pick and choose spots to take swabs. If the particular swab has just a miniscule amount of perpetrator blood in a large amount of victim blood, it's going to be pretty difficult to develop a profile for the minor contributor. It's almost like it requires a little bit of luck to go LE's way. So it's frustrating that the answer could be sitting in CODIS right now but I don't rule out that LE may be able to advance their evidence in this area eventually. All my opinions.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Bolded by me - chances are, the perpetrator's DNA was there at the scene (as you pointed out, it's highly likely that the person injured themselves during the commission of this crime); however, there are three major factors that are probably hindering LE's ability to actually detect and develop a DNA profile that could be compared to anything in CODIS; the very bloody nature of the scene in general, the fact that it's an outdoor scene, and whether or not they have recovered the weapon.

Let's say a murderer stabs someone and cuts himself in the process. The likely place technicians will find his blood is on the weapon itself. They will focus their testing on areas where he would have held the weapon or where his blood could have logically ended up. Barring having a weapon to test, at an indoor scene they can look for blood droplets or smears near door jambs, window sills, or near areas where they feel the murderer exited (and where it doesn't appear the victim went). At an indoor scene, it will be easier to recreate the murderer's path through the scene and easier to pinpoint what's likely to be his blood versus victim's blood. Now imagine an outdoor scene that is extraordinarily bloody. My hope would be that they were able to detect blood drops moving away from the scene that could only belong to the perpetrator. But if they didn't, and all they have to work with is great swaths of blood left on and around the victim's body, it's going to be very difficult because the large amount of the victim's blood compared to what was shed by the perpetrator means that the perpetrator's DNA loses signal strength. They can't test every bit of a (for example) 2 foot by 3 foot stain. They have to pick and choose spots to take swabs. If the particular swab has just a miniscule amount of perpetrator blood in a large amount of victim blood, it's going to be pretty difficult to develop a profile for the minor contributor. It's almost like it requires a little bit of luck to go LE's way. So it's frustrating that the answer could be sitting in CODIS right now but I don't rule out that LE may be able to advance their evidence in this area eventually. All my opinions.

Maybe there might be future genealogy testing hopefully.

 

[DeDee]

It's sad to see there hasn't been any progress made in this case. I figured with some surveillance footage and the amount of activity in that area (even during the late hour) someone would have seen something.

Also, how can there be no DNA that we know of? The killer committed a very bloody carving of the body, often they will cut themselves also during the act. That tells me this perp is not in CODIS.

Such a strange and unsettling case. I hope something breaks for family and loved ones.

If the person responsible for the double homicide of Katie and Bowie does not have a CODIS entry, that means the killer's ancestry has not uploaded to DNA data banks that allows access to police nor have they been convicted of a felony requiring a DNA buccal swab, right?

Using that premise as a basis, the killer has never been caught committing a felony, hence, they're possibly, otherwise, a clean living type individual yet their sharp force brutal destruction to Katie's body screams they're a psychopath.

Can one become psychopathic for a minute for the purpose of killing another?

Her specific sexual injuries are significant. According to Joseph S Morgan, most of her injuries happened while Katie was alive and breathing. Why did they punish her with torture?

Bowie's death had to be swift in order to silence while disarming a threat.

It seems one had to be prepared not only for a strongly built woman but also a strong and fiercely protective dog. I think the killer was likely waiting/hiding in the bushes for Katie just inside the park entrance.

 

[Yemelyan]

Maybe there might be future genealogy testing hopefully.

Yes, hopefully, but it first starts with being able to isolate a good enough DNA sample from the offender. If the only hint of DNA they have is in admixtures with the victim, it might be a long process before they get to that stage with the evidence they have.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If the person responsible for the double homicide of Katie and Bowie does not have a CODIS entry, that means the killer's ancestry has not uploaded to DNA data banks that allows access to police nor have they been convicted of a felony requiring a DNA buccal swab, right?

Using that premise as a basis, the killer has never been caught committing a felony, hence, they're possibly, otherwise, a clean living type individual yet their sharp force brutal destruction to Katie's body screams they're a psychopath.

Can one become psychopathic for a minute for the purpose of killing another?

Her specific sexual injuries are significant. According to Joseph S Morgan, most of her injuries happened while Katie was alive and breathing. Why did they punish her with torture?

Bowie's death had to be swift in order to silence while disarming a threat.

It seems one had to be prepared not only for a strongly built woman but also a strong and fiercely protective dog. I think the killer was likely waiting/hiding in the bushes for Katie just inside the park entrance.

If they have the killer's DNA, even if he is not in CODIS, they can input it into the Genetic Genealogy databases. Maybe one of his relatives has submitted their DNA to GEDMatch or 23 and me. It's a long shot, but that's how they've been some cases lately like the Golden State Killer and other cold cases.

These deaths were awful and brutal, they need justice.