GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[Quell]

Well that was already a week later right? They definitely would have had the chance to go through the cameras along 10th street, the park, and the Charles Allen gate by that time. So yes they would know by that point if that was her last picture they had, before she got into the park. We are talking about a small area here, don't forget.

The murder happened approx 9hrs prior to the statement APD put out at 950a. The murder occurred in the early hours of 7/28/21.

Further…
Butterfly tattoo?!
You sure about that?

We are talking about an area dense with single-family homes/condos/ two schools/bars/a spa/a coffee shop/bodega/numerous restaurants—all of this is within the north block of Piedmont from the rnbwxwlk to 12th street entrance and the 10th street east block to the CA gate.

 

[Kaley Smith]

I don't know if this interview with Emily Clark, her partner, was posted before. I sure hope they solve this brutal murder. The overkill makes me think the murderer hated women. If he knew she was lesbian, maybe that was part of the cause of his rage? So many <modsnip>are still targets I'm afraid.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

The murder happened approx 9hrs prior to the statement APD put out at 950a. The murder occurred in the early hours of 7/28/21.

Further…
Butterfly tattoo?!
You sure about that?

We are talking about an area dense with single-family homes/condos/ two schools/bars/a spa/a coffee shop/bodega/numerous restaurants—all of this is within the north block of Piedmont from the rnbwxwlk to 12th street entrance and the 10th street east block to the CA gate.

Okay I googled it, it's a rainbow tattoo. I got it wrong, sorry. But I mean, I don't think what type of tattoo it is, is that important. And you are right, yes that picture was released shortly after the murder. Did they get any more? I can't say for sure. Well we know they didn't get any in the park. Did they get any on 10th Street? I mean even if they did, I don't know if it would make that much of a difference. Since we had the rainbow crosswalk pic right before it. I guess it might shed a little light on her mindset, knowing the exact route she took. But I think if they had the Charles Allen gate pic, they would have had it the same time as the crosswalk pic. Because that came from the same public source. Was it a traffic light pic too? I think it was. So if they had one, they had the other. And I think they would have released it early on, for tips. That's just my opinion.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I don't know if this interview with Emily Clark, her partner, was posted before. I sure hope they solve this brutal murder. The overkill makes me think the murderer hated women. If he knew she was lesbian, maybe that was part of the cause of his rage? So many non-heteros are still targets I'm afraid.

That's interesting, I watched that. One thing it said was, Katie was a collector and she collected guitars and books, etc. So that's interesting, that could be something that somebody used to meet up with her. They offered to exchange some object with her.

Also it's not clear to me if they were going to take a plane that night, or the next day. Like when she said that night, could it mean the next night, because in her mind, they stay up late and it's like the same day? Not sure.

But one thing that really stuck out for me, was the past fire at their house. And that sounds like something that would fit into what I was thinking about. So yeah that fact strikes a little close. I would be curious to know if they ever observed any tampering incidents at their house, before this.

 

[Valiant]

I don’t think it was a traffic light picture in the cross walk. Traffic cameras and red light cameras don’t record in Georgia. So unless someone ran a red light and triggered a photo at the same time she was in the crosswalk, I suspect the image did not come from any traffic camera.

How Long Do Traffic Cameras Keep Footage of Accidents in Georgia?

In Georgia, live traffic cameras maintained by the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) don’t store footage of car accidents for any period of time.

howe.law

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I don’t think it was a traffic light picture in the cross walk. Traffic cameras and red light cameras don’t record in Georgia. So unless someone ran a red light and triggered a photo at the same time she was in the crosswalk, I suspect the image did not come from any traffic camera.

How Long Do Traffic Cameras Keep Footage of Accidents in Georgia?

In Georgia, live traffic cameras maintained by the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) don’t store footage of car accidents for any period of time.

howe.law

You know I looked this up before, for some other stuff in my life. And the Georgia STATE does not take or save highway photos. However.... the CITY can take as many photos as they want, and oftentimes do save them. I think they generally save them for about 30 days. And actually that was some years ago I read that article, so it's always easier to save data now, so who knows how long they save them now.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Factual question: were the Charles Allen gate cameras working? I thought there was an issue of non-functioning cameras.

Rest is JMO:
Everyone is entitled to their own theories but I don't think there is any evidence from which we can conclude that Katie was up to anything that would cause her to actively avoid ordinary public security cameras. JMO. I realize that we have to consider the possibility that she went out of her way to buy drugs, since that is a factor in so many homicides, but I believe that there is zero evidence for this. Likewise, the idea of a scheduled meet-up with no digital traces defies credulity IMO.

After following this case for a while, I have also backed away from the idea that this crime was premeditated by a skilled and careful criminal. My original theory is that either Katie or Emma had met a stalker through their food service jobs, because servers are obligated to be polite and an unbalanced person could misinterpret this friendliness, as well as being affected by homophobia. And others have theorized this was premeditated to gratify sexual sadism. I enjoy fictive theories as much as the next person (my personal tinfoil hat in other cases is espionage) but here I don't think we are dealing with an elusive Lecter-style criminal.

I think that this was a random attack by someone experiencing a psychotic event. The Point Defiance attack (committed by an Atlanta native who fled to ATL after the WA assault) is what changed my mind. The difference in WA is that the victim (who survived) and a witness were able to provide a description, resulting in a detailed sketch. The accused was involved with the mental health system and presumably with the sketch LE was able to connect the dots. Even if it wasn't the same perp (I don't know whether the WA guy was in ATL in 2021) I think it is a similar type of crime.

To me it seems much more likely that she was on a unplanned, meandering walk with her dog and was attacked at random by someone who was very disturbed and also very lucky at leaving minimal/no forensic evidence. I hope her family and friends receive peace and justice.

<modsnip> I do not believe somebody who is very mentally disturbed would have the mental capacity to carry out the precise mutilation on the body that was referred to in the autopsy report. In fact I would go the opposite, and say this person is extremely self-collected and cognizant. Because even an average person would find it very difficult to do all the precision work that he did in those circumstances. That is the element that makes this case different. <modsnip>

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I was looking for that picture somebody just posted on the camera on 10th Street. And I don't see it anymore. But I remember it looks like the camera is on a building on the corner on 10th and Piedmont. So I don't know, I'm confused more by that, is she going north to south, or south to North at the intersection?

 

[Rush4087]

Factual question: were the Charles Allen gate cameras working? I thought there was an issue of non-functioning cameras.

Rest is JMO:
Everyone is entitled to their own theories but I don't think there is any evidence from which we can conclude that Katie was up to anything that would cause her to actively avoid ordinary public security cameras. JMO. I realize that we have to consider the possibility that she went out of her way to buy drugs, since that is a factor in so many homicides, but I believe that there is zero evidence for this. Likewise, the idea of a scheduled meet-up with no digital traces defies credulity IMO.

After following this case for a while, I have also backed away from the idea that this crime was premeditated by a skilled and careful criminal. My original theory is that either Katie or Emma had met a stalker through their food service jobs, because servers are obligated to be polite and an unbalanced person could misinterpret this friendliness, as well as being affected by homophobia. And others have theorized this was premeditated to gratify sexual sadism. I enjoy fictive theories as much as the next person (my personal tinfoil hat in other cases is espionage) but here I don't think we are dealing with an elusive Lecter-style criminal.

I think that this was a random attack by someone experiencing a psychotic event. The Point Defiance attack (committed by an Atlanta native who fled to ATL after the WA assault) is what changed my mind. The difference in WA is that the victim (who survived) and a witness were able to provide a description, resulting in a detailed sketch. The accused was involved with the mental health system and presumably with the sketch LE was able to connect the dots. Even if it wasn't the same perp (I don't know whether the WA guy was in ATL in 2021) I think it is a similar type of crime.

To me it seems much more likely that she was on a unplanned, meandering walk with her dog and was attacked at random by someone who was very disturbed and also very lucky at leaving minimal/no forensic evidence. I hope her family and friends receive peace and justice.

The 10th Street cameras pointing at the outside of the Charles Allen gate were working and part of the city’s system. So were the Piedmont Ave cameras pointing at (the outside of) the 12th St gate.

Cameras inside the park however (incl any that might’ve been just inside the park boundaries and/or near the gates) were not working. They were obsolete, having been installed many years earlier by the old Piedmont Park Conservancy.

After PP was transferred from the PPC to the City, there was supposedly a plan developed and priced to replace the old cameras inside the park with new ones - and tie them into the city’s camera system. I believe the implementation of that plan was back burnered by the city council for several years due to budgetary constraints.

All jmo

 

[Quell]

Here is a link to APDs site where the verbiage “last seen” is used at 950a later the same morning of her murder 7/28/21 (my post with screenshot was deleted by mod bc I didn’t reference the source. Apologies…source is APD):

https://www.atlantapd.org/Home/Components/News/News/1219/71

 

[Quell]

I was looking for that picture somebody just posted on the camera on 10th Street. And I don't see it anymore. But I remember it looks like the camera is on a building on the corner on 10th and Piedmont. So I don't know, I'm confused more by that, is she going north to south, or south to North at the intersection?

The moderator deleted it because I didn’t post a source. The source is the web. The camera sits atop the bldg that Flying Biscuit is in and that camera captures the intersection of 10th and Piedmont—aka the rainbow crosswalk.

 

[Rush4087]

Here is a link to APDs site where the verbiage “last seen” is used at 950a later the same morning of her murder 7/28/21 (my post with screenshot was deleted by mod bc I didn’t reference the source. Apologies…source is APD):

https://www.atlantapd.org/Home/Components/News/News/1219/71

9:50 am on 7/28/21 is the time of the APD report.

In the second paragraph it states KJ was last seen walking her dog in Midtown Atlanta - and references (in parenthesis) the photo in which she was last seen - walking in the rainbow crossing crosswalk from SW corner of 10th toward the NW corner of 10th (though she at first appears to be angling a bit NE) at approx 12:09 am.

As Quell correctly posted, the camera that captured KJ and Bowie crossing the intersection from SW to NW is on top of the building in which Flying Biscuit is a tenant (the building is on the NW corner of Piedmont and 10th).

LE arrived on the scene at the 10th St. Charles Allen gate at approx. 1:10 am on 7/28/21

Jmo

 

[Quell]

9:50 am is the time of the APD report.

In the second paragraph it states KJ was last seen walking her dog in Midtown Atlanta - and references (in parenthesis) the photo in which she was last seen - walking in the rainbow crossing crosswalk from SW corner of 10th toward the NW corner of 10th (though she at first appears to be angling a bit NE) at approx 12:09 am.

LE arrived on the scene at the 10th St. Charles Allen gate at approx. 1:10 am on 7/28/21

Jmo

Sorry yes, correct, I should have posted context. This pertains to an ongoing discussion on the thread regarding whether the 1209a photo in the crosswalk was the last photo of her. Someone on the thread mentioned that APD said it was the last time she was seen and my point is APD made that statement 8-9 hours after the murder. In other words it’s too soon imo at that time to say definitively that’s the last time she was seen because the community had barely been notified of the murder let alone looked at their ring cameras and so forth. Whatever route she took there’s a density of businesses, homes, schools etc.in a couple block-span and I believe it’s possible there was a capture of KJ later in her route.

 

[hexicon]

It's not a conspiracy theory if you match the theory to the evidence. And I do not believe somebody who is very mentally disturbed would have the mental capacity to carry out the precise mutilation on the body that was referred to in the autopsy report. In fact I would go the opposite, and say this person is extremely self-collected and cognizant. Because even an average person would find it very difficult to do all the precision work that he did in those circumstances. That is the element that makes this case different. And just trying to dismiss it, is not going to help solve the case.

In referring to my pet "tinfoil hat theory," I didn't intend to imply that the sexual sadist killer is a per se conspiracy theory, but I do think it is less likely than the alternative. JMO.

I read the autopsy report a long time ago (and don't intend to read it again as it was very upsetting), so I am not fresh on the details, but I would ask what's the evidence for arguing that the injuries were very careful and specific? I don't remember the report offering an opinion on "precision work." I think that we are interpreting the same facts differently.

"Surgical precision" is a trope of true crime reporting and analysis, so I'm not sure that we can always infer from the sanitized medical terminology of the autopsy dictation that the wounds were incurred with the the acuity of a physician's scalpel. Just because injuries affected certain organs doesn't mean that the murderer intended to target that organ specifically. And to use a crude example not applicable here, we often read breathless crime reporting that says, e.g., that a limb was dismembered with "anatomical precision," but anyone who has carved a Thanksgiving turkey knows you separate the leg at the joint. You don't have to be a surgeon. Here, the letters carved (presumed to be "FAT) weren't complete and weren't totally legible. It's not clear to me that the facial injuries and repeated stabs to the tattoo were committed in a specific and measured manner. "

We don't have all the evidence, but my conclusion is that there is more than one way to interpret the evidence we do have. JMO.

 

[AtlantaBourne]

In referring to my pet "tinfoil hat theory," I didn't intend to imply that the sexual sadist killer is a per se conspiracy theory, but I do think it is less likely than the alternative. JMO.

I read the autopsy report a long time ago (and don't intend to read it again as it was very upsetting), so I am not fresh on the details, but I would ask what's the evidence for arguing that the injuries were very careful and specific? I don't remember the report offering an opinion on "precision work." I think that we are interpreting the same facts differently.

"Surgical precision" is a trope of true crime reporting and analysis, so I'm not sure that we can always infer from the sanitized medical terminology of the autopsy dictation that the wounds were incurred with the the acuity of a physician's scalpel. Just because injuries affected certain organs doesn't mean that the murderer intended to target that organ specifically. And to use a crude example not applicable here, we often read breathless crime reporting that says, e.g., that a limb was dismembered with "anatomical precision," but anyone who has carved a Thanksgiving turkey knows you separate the leg at the joint. You don't have to be a surgeon. Here, the letters carved (presumed to be "FAT) weren't complete and weren't totally legible. It's not clear to me that the facial injuries and repeated stabs to the tattoo were committed in a specific and measured manner. "

We don't have all the evidence, but my conclusion is that there is more than one way to interpret the evidence we do have. JMO.

Agreed the autopsy report was very horrific to read IMO & I was shocked that it was released to the public also, IMO. The points that stuck out to me in it were the fact that KJ was a very healthy adult with no liver, kidney damage. No evidence of drug use or alcoholism. There was reported the start of heart disease. Over 50 stab wounds, all different types of sharp-forced wounds. Some deep & intentionally placed (4 IIRC), some incised, some less than 1/2" deep. The eyelid injuries, chest & 5-1/2-6" long letters FA on her right side chest (the horizontal line in A was a 2-2-1/2" stab wound) & torso & T on her left chest & torso. The T had 2 verticle incisions & there were numerous wounds to the hands, fingers & forearms. Also contusions & abrasions to the lower back in addition to stab wounds around a tattoo. There were no injuries to the legs or feet. Shoes were still on with laces tied. There was a $5 bill folded in the small front pocket of her jeans that EC stated she kept to give to panhandlers. No one has ever stated that KJ's phone was found with her. EC stated that it was found.
KJ worked at The World Improv on Spring St for 8 years. She was the bar mgr. She also worked at Campagnola, an Italian Restaurant, as a bar tender. Before that, she worked at a bar on 10th St called Q with EC's brother. EC stated that was how she met KJ & they had been a couple for 7+ years. They lived in an apt on Piedmont near 10th St that was damaged by a fire & they moved to an apt on North Ave.
They were saving up to buy a house.
At the time EC gave her 2nd interview (wearing a white T-shirt sitting on a covered porch) she stated that she normally didn't work on Tues nite but she had switched days so she could take KJ to the airport to visit family in MI. She said KJ was suppose to have gone that nite. I took that she meant the same day she gave the interview which was on Thurs., 07/29/21. EC also stated that KJ had been off from work Tuesday. This is all my opinion ref by previous posts with MSM reports & the Fulton County Med Examiner's autopsy report.

 

[Quell]

Agreed the autopsy report was very horrific to read IMO & I was shocked that it was released to the public also, IMO. The points that stuck out to me in it were the fact that KJ was a very healthy adult with no liver, kidney damage. No evidence of drug use or alcoholism. There was reported the start of heart disease. Over 50 stab wounds, all different types of sharp-forced wounds. Some deep & intentionally placed (4 IIRC), some incised, some less than 1/2" deep. The eyelid injuries, chest & 5-1/2-6" long letters FA on her right side chest (the horizontal line in A was a 2-2-1/2" stab wound) & torso & T on her left chest & torso. The T had 2 verticle incisions & there were numerous wounds to the hands, fingers & forearms. Also contusions & abrasions to the lower back in addition to stab wounds around a tattoo. There were no injuries to the legs or feet. Shoes were still on with laces tied. There was a $5 bill folded in the small front pocket of her jeans that EC stated she kept to give to panhandlers. No one has ever stated that KJ's phone was found with her. EC stated that it was found.
KJ worked at The World Improv on Spring St for 8 years. She was the bar mgr. She also worked at Campagnola, an Italian Restaurant, as a bar tender. Before that, she worked at a bar on 10th St called Q with EC's brother. EC stated that was how she met KJ & they had been a couple for 7+ years. They lived in an apt on Piedmont near 10th St that was damaged by a fire & they moved to an apt on North Ave.
They were saving up to buy a house.
At the time EC gave her 2nd interview (wearing a white T-shirt sitting on a covered porch) she stated that she normally didn't work on Tues nite but she had switched days so she could take KJ to the airport to visit family in MI. She said KJ was suppose to have gone that nite. I took that she meant the same day she gave the interview which was on Thurs., 07/29/21. EC also stated that KJ had been off from work Tuesday. This is all my opinion ref by previous posts with MSM reports & the Fulton County Med Examiner's autopsy report.

@AtlantaBourne wasn’t an apple earbud found still in her ear? I’ve read reports (can’t recall if from ME report or not) of that which I find remarkable if true.

 

[Quell]

Agreed the autopsy report was very horrific to read IMO & I was shocked that it was released to the public also, IMO. The points that stuck out to me in it were the fact that KJ was a very healthy adult with no liver, kidney damage. No evidence of drug use or alcoholism. There was reported the start of heart disease. Over 50 stab wounds, all different types of sharp-forced wounds. Some deep & intentionally placed (4 IIRC), some incised, some less than 1/2" deep. The eyelid injuries, chest & 5-1/2-6" long letters FA on her right side chest (the horizontal line in A was a 2-2-1/2" stab wound) & torso & T on her left chest & torso. The T had 2 verticle incisions & there were numerous wounds to the hands, fingers & forearms. Also contusions & abrasions to the lower back in addition to stab wounds around a tattoo. There were no injuries to the legs or feet. Shoes were still on with laces tied. There was a $5 bill folded in the small front pocket of her jeans that EC stated she kept to give to panhandlers. No one has ever stated that KJ's phone was found with her. EC stated that it was found.
KJ worked at The World Improv on Spring St for 8 years. She was the bar mgr. She also worked at Campagnola, an Italian Restaurant, as a bar tender. Before that, she worked at a bar on 10th St called Q with EC's brother. EC stated that was how she met KJ & they had been a couple for 7+ years. They lived in an apt on Piedmont near 10th St that was damaged by a fire & they moved to an apt on North Ave.
They were saving up to buy a house.
At the time EC gave her 2nd interview (wearing a white T-shirt sitting on a covered porch) she stated that she normally didn't work on Tues nite but she had switched days so she could take KJ to the airport to visit family in MI. She said KJ was suppose to have gone that nite. I took that she meant the same day she gave the interview which was on Thurs., 07/29/21. EC also stated that KJ had been off from work Tuesday. This is all my opinion ref by previous posts with MSM reports & the Fulton County Med Examiner's autopsy report.

The cuts imo were more like frenzied blitzkrieg.

And the image I repeatedly get when thinking about all those cuts, manner of cuts etc is something a child does with a marker when they are mad and want to cover an image they don’t like anymore: they just keep angrily/with force scribbling over the image with multiple layers of marker (in this case knife) until the image is completely blocked out…effectively erased.

 

[Rush4087]

@AtlantaBourne wasn’t an apple earbud found still in her ear? I’ve read reports (can’t recall if from ME report or not) of that which I find remarkable if true.

KJ had a wireless earbud near her ear

 

[JackieBrown]

I have not read all of the pages here and only know the broad strokes of the case, so please forgive me if this theory has been discussed or doesn’t make sense. Please let me know what you all think:

I’m thinking through how the perp could subdue both victims without losing physical control of one or both while attacking the other.

If the perp was known to the victims, as police think, is it possible that Bowie taken “hostage” by the perp to control KJ? Do we know anything about Bowie’s temperament and obedience level? Could the perp have used knowledge of both victims’ behavior to gain control of his leash?

Once he had Bowie in close proximity, he could have made any number of verbal threats that Bowie may not have understood if done in a neutral tone of voice. Threats to Bowie may have been enough to subdue KJ and gain her cooperation to not scream to draw attention or run away. MOO

They said they believe the attack happened soon after she entered the park- what is that based on? Is that timeframe based on the proximity to where she entered the park?

 

[AtlantaBourne]

@AtlantaBourne wasn’t an apple earbud found still in her ear? I’ve read reports (can’t recall if from ME report or not) of that which I find remarkable if true.

IIRC the ME report stated an earbud was located adjacent to the ear. This autopsy report was done at the ME office. I was never clear on what adjacent meant. IMO possibly the ear bud fell out of the ear in transit from the crime scene to the ME office. In any case it was noted on the report.
JMOO