GA - Rayshard Brooks, 27, fatally shot in Wendy’s car park, Atlanta, 12 Jun 2020 *officer charged*

[katydid23]

Do you think stealing a tazer warrants being shot?

It depends upon the ENTIRE situation. In this situation, YES, because of the circumstances.

Seeing a taser sitting on the sidewalk and stealing it, NO, absolutely does not warrant being shot.

But being treated respectfully and politely, while being lawfully arrested---and then that suspect suddenly becomes violent, punching an officer in the face, wrestling with them, reaching into the holster, and continuing to try and grab the taser, while being warned verbally to STOP grabbing for it, then pointing it at the officer, while trying to take it and flee into the public, and the cops knew he had a violent criminal history-----YES, under those circumstances, they had to stop him.

 

[shotgun09]

I watched the same video, and throughout many times telling myself that I am watching a dead mans last few minutes on this earth. He was a pleasant man, and clearly intoxicated. I smiled to myself at his antics and stories ( and little white lies). He was caught, and yet he kept on talking, and agreeing with the officers requests. Suddenly...it all changed when he realized the totality of his situation and the cuffs came out. A switch flipped, and Mr Brooks became violent and aggressive. These two officers reacted as well, for the safety and well being of each other, as well as the community at large. There should be no charges filed against either officer. Mr Brooks made a bad choice, that sadly ended his life.

 

[katydid23]

So the officer drew his gun after Mr. Brooks pointed and may have fired the tazer at the officer and turned away. If this is so the officer knew it was a taser. But, he would also know he was not in imminent threat of deadly force. Again, you cannot use deadly force based on what you think someone might do next, besides Mr. Brooks is clearly running away and not a threat at least accrding to this account.

Yes, in the case of Law Enforcement officers, you can assume that a suspect resisting arrest is trying to harm the officer. Tasing an officer allows the suspect to do further injury to the officer and they often follow up on it. Often by taking their weapon. If he was really desperate to get away, getting the weapon would be a big deal.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Issue a warrant?? So your idea is they should have just let a stinking drunk, violent person, with a tazer belonging to LE go off into the public??? Just, like, let him go? And go on their merry way?? That might be one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard!!

someone on social media did literally say that. ‘They can catch him later’. I have no idea how that person said it with a straight face; and it also makes me think that it’s dangerous to heed the opinions of those who literally don’t seem to understand police work, human behavior, the criminal mind or, well, a lot of things.

also, I can’t recall if this has been discussed but the prevailing scuttlebutt says the Wendy’s ‘had to’ burn because the workers there had the temerity to call the police in the first place, which makes sense IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Politics and current events do rile ones emotions, but I am trying to look at a bigger picture and trying to make justice the ultimate arbitrator of my reasoning. I think things need to change as they clearly cannot continue on this path much longer. Law enforcement can change And I believe without endangering public safety, in fact I think it will be better for it.

And is change a one way street?

BLM is marching and demanding that the police change their ways. What about the public?

Do blacks need to change how they respond to the police? How they behave when being lawfully arrested for a crime?

Or is it the cops that need to change by being less 'cop like.' ? Are officers supposed to allow people to punch them in the face, wrestle with them for control of their tasers and allow them to shoot the taser at them, and not respond in kind?

Why isn't BLM asking their people to modify their behaviours and reactions?

Instead, we have them saying ACAB and Blue Lives Murder, and Kill Da Pigs, and lots of vicious vitriolic rhetoric. How its that going to help anyone?

And this case is the perfect example. Those cops were very polite and respectful and did nothing to make this man have to be violent towards them. It was a lawful arrest and they had not been rude or aggressive in any way.

Brooks is the one that created the combative situation. In spite of that, they marched into the city and burned down the Wendy's. That shows me how rational and logical they will be from here on out.

BLM says NOTHING about the criminal behavior, but attacks cops for not responding correctly.

How about just once, BLM stand behind a cop that was forced to shoot. How about asking their people not to shoot at cops, or other people for that matter.

How can I take them seriously in their complaints about Black Lives when they ignore so many other black lives that are being lost every day in every major city. And these crimes are having a huge impact upon the interactions with police.

 

[Wowno17]

With the George Floyd death, for me it was clear cut. Absolutely horrifying, but this case is COMPLETELY different.

How some people will doggedly push the narrative that these officers were to blame is sad and the wrong route to go.

I think most, if not all LE, will look at the sacking of the officers in this case and be very disheartened. They will feel like they can't even protect themselves in their place of work without losing their job (or life) and that's just wrong and plain dangerous.


MOO

 

[katydid23]

Politics and current events do rile ones emotions, but I am trying to look at a bigger picture and trying to make justice the ultimate arbitrator of my reasoning. I think things need to change as they clearly cannot continue on this path much longer. Law enforcement can change And I believe without endangering public safety, in fact I think it will be better for it.

I am trying to look at the bigger picture too. Do you think we are going to keep any kind of working police force, if every time they are attacked and assaulted and they defend themselves, they are fired and go to trial?

Who would want to work a job like that? Cops are under a lot of stress because of the dangers they face from lots of criminals they deal with.

How can they accept this job if they are going to be arrested for defending themselves, when the suspect was the one that punched first, stole their weapon, pointed it at them, etc...Are you wanting the bigger picture to be that suspects are told that it is worth it for them, to go ahead and get violent with the cops, because chances are they wont do anything because they are afraid of being arrested if they respond.

 

[katydid23]

With the George Floyd death, for me it was clear cut. Absolutely horrifying, but this case is COMPLETELY different.

How some people will doggedly push the narrative that these officers were to blame is sad and the wrong route to go.

I think most, if not all LE, will look at the sacking of the officers in this case and be very disheartened. They will feel like they can't even protect themselves in their place of work without losing their job (or life) and that's just wrong and plain dangerous.


MOO

EXACTLY. They are disheartened. Many are quitting and retiring early. Most are stressed and depressed and looking for other types of work.

This whole movement is likely to backfire if we are not careful.

The killing of George Floyd was a travesty. It was horrible and protests were understandable. But we have no idea if that was race based. It was a cruel officer and he should go on trial.

But the reaction by BLM is overboard. And it is creating hatred and ugliness that is out of control.

And there is ZERO accountability for the other side of the equation. Why are there so many interactions between blacks and the police. Surely it is not all based upon racist cops hunting down innocent black people. That is the current narrative, but I think the public is smarter than that.

 

[katydid23]

4th amendment to the constitution

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized


How did these officers violate the 4th amendment? He was passed out drunk in his car, blocking the drive through lane. So he was not secure, safe and sound in his home.

It was a reasonable engagement by the officers, to give him a field sobriety test. He failed that test. No rights violated. That was a legal and lawful arrest they were making. And they were doing so respectfully and politely.

Why the defending and minimising of this man's violent behaviour towards these officers?

 

[mickey2942]

@katydid23 the public is definitely not "smarter". Remember, this is the same public that embraced Jussie Smollett for months as a "victim".

This is the same "public" who defended Michael Brown, and Freddie Gray as "victims".

And completely ignored the fact that an off duty officer shot a family at Costco. Killing a man, shooting his father, and shot his mother in the back. Unarmed people. Not doing any crime. And that officer still has his job.

 

[squareandrabbet]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized


How did these officers violate the 4th amendment? He was passed out drunk in his car, blocking the drive through lane. So he was not secure, safe and sound in his home.

It was a reasonable engagement by the officers, to give him a field sobriety test. He failed that test. No rights violated. That was a legal and lawful arrest they were making. And they were doing so respectfully and politely.

Why the defending and minimising of this man's violent behaviour towards these officers?

There’s a reason why ‘routine’ traffic stops are the most dreaded for many law enforcement. They run the ID: find the person is wanted on bond or similar: the person panics and reacts like a trapped wild animal doing anything to escape.

A proportional response to that is not, IMO, for example, ‘well let’s just stop sending criminals to prison, that way they won’t be so scared of it’.

 

[katydid23]

Well, they can start by outlawing the choke hold. Secondly, they can work at making much better decisions as far as lethal force. In this instance, they knew who Mr. Brooks was and if they could not restrain him and he got away, they could issue a warrant for his arrest. Simply shooting everyone who tries to escape the police is folly.

Okay, I agree with outlawing the choke hold. But I do hope there is something else that smaller officers, or female officers can use, when in a physical struggle with a suspect.

As for your suggestion that they let him waltz away, drunk in the night, with a high powered taser---YIKES, I hope not.

He has a history of convictions for robbery, assault, kidnapping, domestic violence, etc. An officer is not going to allow someone who is in a violent way, and drunk, run off into the night with a stolen weapon. They would be fired and held responsible if the guy hijacked a car or did a home invasion that night.

 

[katydid23]

There’s a reason why ‘routine’ traffic stops are the most dreaded for many law enforcement. They run the ID: find the person is wanted on bond or similar: the person panics and reacts like a trapped wild animal doing anything to escape.

A proportional response to that is not, IMO, for example, ‘well let’s just stop sending criminals to prison, that way they won’t be so scared of it’.

One of the demands being made by BLM and the De_fund requests, is to STOP doing any traffic stops.

They suggest that cops see a traffic infraction and they mail a ticket to the driver.... yah sure...

That is so ridiculous/ Driving the streets would become total chaos if that happened. No one would have licenses or insurance if there were no traffic stops. There would be no valid license plates. Why have an address attached to your tag if the cops couldn't do anything but mail you a letter to the wrong address?

Do people have any idea how many illegal weapons cops find in traffic stops? And how many open warrants they find?

Also, many serial killers were ultimately caught during info from traffic stops. Ted Bundy for one. There are several others too.

This is a horrible idea and it does nothing to help society and the safety of us in general. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

In this instance it pertains to lethal force

Sorry to differ. The 4th Ammendment Right is not about lethal force.

 

[Simply Southern]

News just announced that Mr. Brooks was shot twice in the back while running away.

Respectfully, have you watched the video?
He could have stopped at any point, dropped the tazer and surrendered.

Someone had to stop Mr. Brooks he was intoxicated and had a weapon, not a stun gun, but a police tazer with a dart producing a 20,000 electrical shock.

He fired the tazer at the officer, its in the two videos on this thread. He turned to run AFTER he fired at the officer.

It is illegal to fire anything at a law enforcer officer. The mayor and city council need to stand up for the Laws they are entrusted to protect. That is the least they can do until they de fund the police, open more park, community programs and hire social workers to deal with the Mr. Brooks of the city.

 

[squareandrabbet]

One of the demands being made by BLM and the De_fund requests, is to STOP doing any traffic stops.

They suggest that cops see a traffic infraction and they mail a ticket to the driver.... yah sure...

That is so ridiculous/ Driving the streets would become total chaos if that happened. No one would have licenses or insurance if there were no traffic stops. There would be no valid license plates. Why have an address attached to your tag if the cops couldn't do anything but mail you a letter to the wrong address?

Do people have any idea how many illegal weapons cops find in traffic stops? And how many open warrants they find?

Also, many serial killers were ultimately caught during info from traffic stops. Ted Bundy for one. There are several others too.

This is a horrible idea and it does nothing to help society and the safety of us in general. JMO

I also find it hard to believe that BLM doesn’t know the stats about the deadliness of your average traffic stop myself; and if they don’t, then the first thing I think they need to add to BLM is a police advisory board.

IMO JMO MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Why is "" a "bad word" now? *de-fund*

 

[katydid23]

Why is "******" a "bad word" now? *de-fund*

Because they outlaw people posting Go_Fund___Me accounts. ....which is understandable.

 

[Charlot123]

I watched the video. The whole situation looks like a mess, but at least I can see that the policeman was threatened with a taser. I just wonder what the instructions say about the options for handling a drunk man sleeping in a car in Wendy’s driveway. Are there any alternatives to jail? Were there any alternatives to calling the police? What is Wendy’s legal responsibility? Yes, the guy is drunk. He is minimally blocking the traffic. He is sleeping in his car. Would it have been wiser to let him sleep? (BTW, how did he end up at Wendy? Are they fully open in Atlanta? Did he stop by the driveway to eat but passed out instead?).

I am looking at the initial damage (a car with a sleeping drunk man in a driveway, not fully blocking it, just parked in such a way that other clients have to drive around it).

From my standpoint, maybe the initial decision of Mr. Brooks (to sleep on it) was the smart one. And if I am not wrong, if his key was out of the ignition lock, it was not even a DUI.

How could this (uncomfortable, but not deadly) situation turn into such a disaster?

27 y.o. father of four - dead.

Wendy- burned down.

Several cars - burned down.

Traffic - blocked.

Head of the PD department- resigned.

The policeman - fired.

The situation in Atlanta - dangerous.

I just wonder if the net result could be preventable? Surely there should be a more reasonable alternative? For everyone?

It is a catastrophe, what has happened.

I see dire need to introduce more deescalation techniques in police training. Because much as I don’t see anything provoking in the officer’s behavior, he was polite, and Mr. Brooks just turned 180 degrees. But - he was only 27, he is dead, shot in the back, and I can imagine how Mr. Brooks’ family feels. OK, he got drunk celebrating and fell asleep in a car, or chose to sleep on it. Never happened to any of our friends?

 

[Charlot123]

I watched the video. The whole situation looks like a mess, but at least I can see that the policeman was threatened with a taser. I just wonder what the instructions say about the options for handling a drunk man sleeping in a car in Wendy’s driveway. Are there any alternatives to jail? Were there any alternatives to calling the police? What is Wendy’s legal responsibility? Yes, the guy is drunk. He is minimally blocking the traffic. He is sleeping in his car. Would it have been wiser to let him sleep? (BTW, how did he end up at Wendy? Are they open in Atlanta? Did he stop by to eat but passed out instead?).

I am looking at the initial damage (a car with a sleeping drunk man in a driveway, not fully blocking it, just parked in such a way that other clients have to drive around it).

From my standpoint, the initial decision of Mr. Brooks (to sleep it off rather to drive drunk) was the smart one. And if I am not wrong, if his key was out of the ignition lock, it was not even a DUI.

How could this (uncomfortable, but not deadly) situation turn into such a disaster?

27 y.o. father of four - dead.

Wendy- burned down.

Several cars - burned down.

Traffic - blocked.

Head of the PD department- resigned.

The policeman - fired.

The situation in Atlanta - dangerous.

I just wonder if the net result could be preventable? Surely there should be a more reasonable alternative? For everyone?

It is a catastrophe, what has happened.

I see dire need to introduce more deescalation techniques in police training. I don’t see anything provoking in the officer’s behavior, he was polite, it was Mr. Brooks just turned 180 degrees. However, he was only 27, he is dead, shot in the back, and I can imagine how Mr. Brooks’ family feels. OK, he got drunk celebrating and fell asleep in a car, or chose to sleep the alcohol off. Never happened to any of our friends?