GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 1

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I'd think it could be -- could be from a number of things.

I do wonder why they thought it might be newly done, as someone was pondering. Maybe they could tell a part of the finger was missing, or whatever, and there was blood (from elsewhere) on his hand -- guess they wouldn't disturb much to check at the scene, but wait for medical examiner to inspect. (Of course, the adult children were able to confirm it was an old injury before M.E.)

All I can think of is that he was missing part of a finger from an old injury and they were afraid it had been cut off as a mess of torturing him prior to killing him.


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I looked at the son's linkedin and noticed he went to college in Phoenix, Arizona. I also saw a mention of Mark (the murdered son) having attended high school in the same area. I'm wondering if anyone has checked his criminal history in that state? His rap sheet in Georgia is really long, beginning in his mid 30s. Surely, one doesn't become a hardened criminal overnight. And with all the press, I have yet to hear a mention of the family having lived in AZ.

It seems relatively strange for a family to have amassed such a large amount of businesses (Wendy's, chic-Fila, sunrise foods llc, first watch, and many others between the father and sons) yet no mention of Russell's early career?

Another strikingly odd detail- Russell's finger. What sort of old injury could be so gruesome that the officers thought he was being tortured before being killed?

The fact that LE is looking into a mob connection makes me think they have more information than they are letting on. Is it not possible the son was killed while in witness protection and the drug murder story is just a cover up? That would explain the strange mug shot on his record?!

BBM

I just checked the AZ courts and corrections. Didn't come up with anything. but then I googled MD and noticed NY dept of Corrections popped up. Looks like he served 5 years for Robbery in the Sing Sing prison.

http://nysdoccslookup.doccs.ny.gov/GCA00P00/WIQ3/WINQ130
 
The only reason it struck me as odd was because both my grandfather and great grandfather had missing fingers from way back before healthcare was so advanced. Not to be gross, one had a few cut off in a saw, and the other had one ripped off in machinery. But both looked completely normal, just short. Totally healed up and well, like a finger. I can't imagine seasoned LE and medical examiners would think an old wound like that was recent 'torture'. It makes me think that finger wound was much more significant than a missing digit. And perhaps more recent than the navy...honestly, no doctor would see a botched finger sew up from 1950 and not offer to do a minor procedure to clean up the scarring. And in my experience, most men, particularly wealthy and socially active ones, would take that doctor up on it.

One other thing I read that seemed to be unusual was the lack of a debit card between Russell and Shirley. That is most unusual, particularly because Russell had to be familiar with the technology from his fast food restaurants. It was also mentioned they had just a few credit cards. That kind of thing makes me think they didn't want a financial trail. Wealthy older men have all sorts of accounts to which a debit card is most likely automatically sent: 401k account, checking, savings, stock account, IRAs, etc. And that's not even counting all of his business accounts.
 
Maybe it was the husband the killer(s) were after and they were not expecting her to be home. She could have heard commotion, maybe her husband talking to someone, or even a thump (if they caught him from behind unexpectedly) and she walked in on something she shouldn't have. I was also going to add maybe they took her in a hurry and something they were totally unprepared for, but then they did take the time to take his head (which still seems so horrible to me.) Maybe taking her to buy some time to figure out what to do.

At 87 you would think she would be on some type of medication (I'm 35 and already had a TIA due to child birth and require daily meds or serious health issues can arise)...maybe she passed of natural causes in their custody or maybe they intended to take her as a ransom...due to all the horrible things she witnessed, possible pre existing health issues...she passed away naturally and that's why no note...no calls...etc. have been made to the family.

Just thoughts. The manner seems so odd to me, but I don't find that the doors were unlocked and maybe caught them by surprise. My Dad owned a cabin in Ga and due to him always going fishing at various times of the night...we never locked the cabin door. Someone was always inside or at the dock.
 
BBM

I just checked the AZ courts and corrections. Didn't come up with anything. but then I googled MD and noticed NY dept of Corrections popped up. Looks like he served 5 years for Robbery in the Sing Sing prison.

http://nysdoccslookup.doccs.ny.gov/GCA00P00/WIQ3/WINQ130

I don't know... coincidence? First degree robbery means he either had a gun or injured someone. Five years is a long, long time for ATTEMPTED robbery. Seems like their son probably knew some seriously shady people after five years in Sing Sing and multiple years in GA prison.
 
The only reason it struck me as odd was because both my grandfather and great grandfather had missing fingers from way back before healthcare was so advanced. Not to be gross, one had a few cut off in a saw, and the other had one ripped off in machinery. But both looked completely normal, just short. Totally healed up and well, like a finger. I can't imagine seasoned LE and medical examiners would think an old wound like that was recent 'torture'. It makes me think that finger wound was much more significant than a missing digit. And perhaps more recent than the navy...honestly, no doctor would see a botched finger sew up from 1950 and not offer to do a minor procedure to clean up the scarring. And in my experience, most men, particularly wealthy and socially active ones, would take that doctor up on it.

One other thing I read that seemed to be unusual was the lack of a debit card between Russell and Shirley. That is most unusual, particularly because Russell had to be familiar with the technology from his fast food restaurants. It was also mentioned they had just a few credit cards. That kind of thing makes me think they didn't want a financial trail. Wealthy older men have all sorts of accounts to which a debit card is most likely automatically sent: 401k account, checking, savings, stock account, IRAs, etc. And that's not even counting all of his business accounts.

I am sure the Dermonds have vast open financial records. Iirc the police said there were no financial problems. I don't see any evidence that they were trying to hide anything. It seems the Sheriff has had no problems looking into their accounts. They both seem to be very open and honest people and very well liked in their community. I certainly don't think there is anything to base it on that these two elderly people were dishonest.

I read they were victims of identity theft years ago.

I don't find it unusual that they didn't have a debit card. I have read many articles lately and it seems debit cards are easier to hack.

Some banking institutions are recommending credit cards over debit card use because the credit card owner has more security under a credit card for reimbursements than they do with a debt card.

I don't think the finger wound has anything to do with the present case.

IMO
 
The reported lack of evidence or clues in this case so far by LE make me think this murder/abduction was too well planned to be a thrill kill or even a robbery gone bad. At this point, LE isn't even sure if the garage was the original crime scene for the murder of Mr. Dermonds. Of course, LE may be bluffing about what they know in order to throw the killer(s) off about their investigation. Like many have already said, I think Mr Dermond's head was taken to hide evidence. Maybe Mrs. Dermond was taken to hide evidence too. For example, if both the Dermonds were shot, maybe Mrs. Dermonds was shot in the chest, making retrieval of the bullet more complicated so they chose to dispose of her body elsewhere. (horrible thought) But, if a gun was used, wouldn't there be some evidence of gun fire residual in the garage? And, in such a quiet, rural neighborhood, wouldn't gunshots be heard by someone? IDK I'm just thinking out loud because obviously there are no answers until we have more information. I hope they find Mrs Dermond safe.

Are they still performing ground and lake searches? It's only been a week and there's a lot of search area to cover. I don't see anything in the news about a search command center like we've seen in other cases of missing people but that doesn't mean there isn't one. Maybe this weekend?

We just came through Lake Oconee and of course did not go into Great Waters but saw no activity other than CBS 46 vehicles outside the fence.
 
This from CNN:

"I don't think it's a random incident. I think for whatever reason these people were singled out for this," Sills said.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/08/justice/georgia-elderly-man-decapitated-wife-missing/

I think we all know this elderly couple was targeted but that never means they were targeted because of something they had done to someone personally or in retaliation for an inmate who has been in prison for 14 years.

Everyone is targeted when a crime is committed. The home invaders target certain homes because they know there are elderly people living inside who cannot defend themselves. Or when a woman is targeted by a stranger rapist because he sees her alone and vulnerable.... for example.

Many target the elderly nowadays. We have seen horrific cases of where the elderly have been targeted due to their age and vulnerabilities and many were tortured and then murdered.:(

So saying they were 'targeted' really means nothing.

LE said the very same thing in the Husted double murders. Immediately that led the public to believe they were murdered by someone known to them and it was personal. However in truth they weren't murdered by anyone that knew them. Their home had been targeted by a robber for a home invasion and when they discovered him inside of their home he murdered both of them. They never knew the man that murdered both of them whatsoever.

IMO
 
The only reason it struck me as odd was because both my grandfather and great grandfather had missing fingers from way back before healthcare was so advanced. Not to be gross, one had a few cut off in a saw, and the other had one ripped off in machinery. But both looked completely normal, just short. Totally healed up and well, like a finger. I can't imagine seasoned LE and medical examiners would think an old wound like that was recent 'torture'. It makes me think that finger wound was much more significant than a missing digit. And perhaps more recent than the navy...honestly, no doctor would see a botched finger sew up from 1950 and not offer to do a minor procedure to clean up the scarring. And in my experience, most men, particularly wealthy and socially active ones, would take that doctor up on it.

One other thing I read that seemed to be unusual was the lack of a debit card between Russell and Shirley. That is most unusual, particularly because Russell had to be familiar with the technology from his fast food restaurants. It was also mentioned they had just a few credit cards. That kind of thing makes me think they didn't want a financial trail. Wealthy older men have all sorts of accounts to which a debit card is most likely automatically sent: 401k account, checking, savings, stock account, IRAs, etc. And that's not even counting all of his business accounts.

My great uncle got one of his fingers shot off. The nub looked fine to me as well.
That does make me wonder if he had any defensive knife wounds on his hands.

Both my father and father in law do not and will not own debit cards.
They also only do banking at the bank.
They both still pay all bills with a check via snail mail.
They may own 2 or 3 credit cards,but rarely use them and never carry a balance.
They are both almost 80 as well.

*I am giving my dad a brownie point. He has learned to text!
My mother/father in law will not text and have no desire to learn, but they would never leave home without their cell phones.
Moo

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Maybe someone thought they would be at the Kentucky derby party and came in while they were home.
 
I do think maybe LE knows more than they are letting on. I mean the GBI was already assisting. Would the FBI just step in because Sills asked?
 
I don't know... coincidence? First degree robbery means he either had a gun or injured someone. Five years is a long, long time for ATTEMPTED robbery. Seems like their son probably knew some seriously shady people after five years in Sing Sing and multiple years in GA prison.

I wonder if there are any children that he fathered that might have felt slighted.
One man interviewed said if it was night perp knew lake well.
It's unlikely any family or past contacts are involved I guess.
EXPLORING LAKE ENTRY
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/lo...-lake-entry-theory-in-dermond-murder/8874505/
Moo


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wonder if that guy that was denied appeal twice just found out where the parents lived and enacted revenge, don't know why, just tossing things around, just throwing stuff out there, I know someone who went underground and turned himself intot he police for protection over drug deals gone bad AND I know they will steal from whatever family or friend if you owe money,

Just thinking out loud

interesting about the NY robbert and imprisonment, someone I know read NJ somewhere, maybe we should check out there too, and mob related becauae head was proof of getting rid of him?
 
I do think maybe LE knows more than they are letting on. I mean the GBI was already assisting. Would the FBI just step in because Sills asked?

That is the only way the FBI can come into a state case. The local jurisdictional Sheriff Sills asked for their assistance.

They may think Shirley has been taken across state lines and usually that is when the FBI gets involved.

Also the FBI lab will be utilized as well as the GBI lab on some of the evidence removed from the scene.

I really think the police are stumped.

IMO
 
I have wondered if the deceased son might have been working in some undercover capacity -- one with long-reaching ramifications -- at the time he was killed? I doubt it -- but, even if so, why would "revenge" come down to THIS atrocity against his parents, so many years later?

Also -- y'all don't think this might be "aimed" at Sheriff Sills, do you -- in relation to this:



http://www.macon.com/2014/05/08/3087453/decapitation-unlikely-cause-of.html

Just kind of beating the bushes here, trying to scare out anything, any explanation.

HAHA! OH my word, I REMEMBER that, had forgotton all about it,

but why not just go after SILLS instead of this couple? I dont' know all the details on that case or anything surrounding it much though
 
I wonder if there are any children that he fathered that might have felt slighted.
One man interviewed said if it was night perp knew lake well.
It's unlikely any family or past contacts are involved I guess.
EXPLORING LAKE ENTRY
http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/lo...-lake-entry-theory-in-dermond-murder/8874505/
Moo


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I believe it happened at night too. I don't think the perp came from the lake on a boat. I don't think he drove in on the property either. I think the perp was right there all along living in that community.

No one would know how to creep around at night undetected better than someone who lives there and knows the layout like the back of their hand.

No one would know better that the community property owner didn't have surveillance cameras up than someone who lives there.

And they would know if they were seen leaving by car or boat no one would notice because they are supposed to be there anyway.

Imo, I still say the answer to these crimes can be found right in their own community.

IMO
 
I

I read they were victims of identity theft years ago.

I don't find it unusual that they didn't have a debit card. I have read many articles lately and it seems debit cards are easier to hack.

Some banking institutions are recommending credit cards over debit card use because the credit card owner has more security under a credit card for reimbursements than they do with a debt card.

I don't think the finger wound has anything to do with the present case.

IMO

Most debit cards function as a credit card as well for added security. Instead of entering a PIN, banks ask consumers to sign for purchases as they would a credit card.

I guess the point I was making is that if the FBI has been brought in to comb over the Dermond's financials to see if there is an organized crime connection, it might be significant that they didn't use highly normalized methods of banking. Typically organized crime doesn't like a financial trail. Witness protection programs like it even less because debit card trails offer real time information about one's whereabouts.
 
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