GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Bootsctr]

part 2, about 29 minute mark....they discuss the yards and trees etc and a man walking around on the dermonds property....articles typically say man on the lawn but listening to it trying to reference where he was.......and also whomever entered, entered the back door to the kitchen ( from screen porch) so in my mind they were all in and out that back door and yard and possibly only by boat but I just dont think people frequent his culde sac unless lost, no need for anyone to go past the next to the last house on the street except the Dermonds really

maybe someone can discern

https://www.swornpodcast.com/

@28:33:

SS: Great Waters. (it's raining, you can hear the wipers swiping back and forth)

PH: We're coming up on a manned guard house. (SS rolls window down)

Guard: Hello!

SS: Sheriff Sills.

Guard: Okay!

SS: Thank you!

SS: This is a very bland community.

PH: Even though Sheriff Sills is left with few leads in this case, there is one vital piece of information that he had been holding back from the public for a while, an eyewitness account.

PH: Do you think who they saw is involved in this?

SS: I do.

PH: And that was in broad daylight?

SS: I do.

PH: Wow!

PH: A neighbor happened to see a white male walking around the Dermond's property during the day on Saturday and that was the day the Dermonds were likely murdered.

SS: Given the publicity that surrounded this case, anyone who was there for a legitimate reason would have come forward.

PH: So that's the guy right there.

SS: I mean, we interviewed over 200 people simultaneously here one day. I brought in 20 FBI agents and how many detectives, maybe 60 detectives.

PH: SS believes that this person is without a doubt involved in these murders.

SS: Look right back through there and you see that white pickup truck. There is a lawn back there. You see what I'm saying. And there is a view back of the woods. You could see the Dermond house from back there. Not clearly now! I want to stress to you. Not... Kind of like looking here... See this house over here. See that foliage. If somebody was walking through there right now you could see them.

PH: But you may not get a clear...

SS: No. The lady... As I said, it's not what... it's not what she couldn't see that was important. You know that made me know she was telling the truth.

PH: Do you think the key to solving this is identifying the person seen in that yard?

SS: Certainly! The key to solving this is I need somebody that knows something to give me a call. I'll talk to anybody anywhere anytime about this case. You have got two or more people out here in my opinion that committed a heinous crime, and by God, they need to be caught and they need to be punished.

PH: To this day, the Lake Oconee murders is by far one of the most frustrating and perplexing unsolved murder cases in America. The sheriff sincerely hopes that by keeping this case alive in the public and in the media, that someone somewhere out there may have information and will come forward. If anyone out there has any information about the murder of Mr. and Mrs. Dermond, please contact local law enforcement or the Putnam County Sheriff's Office at 706-485-8557.

SS: My DA is going to seek the death penalty. I can tell you that right now. This is... We do the death penalty in Putnam County. The Ocmulgee Judicial Circuit judicial circuit we know how to do a death penalty and that is what will be on the table in this case.

(thanks dancin' for tagging that information in the podcast) :tyou:

 

[Bootsctr]

So, if the witness/neighbor couldn't see the side of the Dermond's house, the side with the driveway to the garage and screened porch (where everyone normally entered the home ~ I think IIRC), then she probably couldn't see a vehicle. For all we know this person, if by vehicle, could have pulled up right there to the garage and entered the screened porch which was likely unlocked at the time.

Am I interpreting what SS said correctly from the podcast? Anyone think differently? I really can't tell if he means a neighbor across the water or someone next door or a couple of doors down.

So, SS also thinks definitely (or so he says) 2 or more people. I know early on Ocean Blue Eyes posted her theory of how it could have been committed by one person which sounded very logical to me.

Maybe one came by vehicle and one came by boat. This just seems a little more complicated than if one person committed both murders and came by boat or vehicle.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

You're welcome, i remembered it was near the end of part 2 thankfully so easy to find! lol

I will have to relisten, AGAIN, lol, thought it was "it's what she couldnt see that was important, , instead of the negative, its NOT what, dang negative negatives LOL

thanks for the transcript boots!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...b1df5a5de07016fc!8m2!3d33.398046!4d-83.236468

this is a winter image......would be very shady and lots of canvas in may.....shows how isolated the dermonds house was/is....it also shows one dock i can see at the cove opening........these lots had so many trees, not sure how anyone noticed anything except the fact the Dermonds lot was void of many trees so if the neighbors across cove were outside near water or on the docks, they had a good view,otherwise not so good but unless shirtless as someone mentioned, no way to tell if male or female without any shirt color or hair colors seems the witness is withholding ....Tried to get a streetview but The little fellow you drag for streetviews, isnt doing his job LOL....

Looking at the overhead map that Fred&Edna posted above (#387), there is another house on Carolyn Dr. Their dock is at the mouth of the cove with their land along the inside of the cove. On Westview Way which abuts the same cove on the other side, there are also two houses that have land on the cove, one of which has a dock in the cove.

I don't really believe the perp/s went after the Dermonds in particular. More likely, they found a quiet cove that looked unoccupied and picked a house to vandalize, rob or break in and party.and mistakenly picked one where someone was home. To cover their tracks, they killed them. Now that I put this down in writing, I'm not so sure though.


Here is the link from that post.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147...xbf34f9972461ee90!2m2!1d-83.234624!2d33.39823

@28:33:

SS: Great Waters. (it's raining, you can hear the wipers swiping back and forth)

PH: We're coming up on a manned guard house. (SS rolls window down)

Guard: Hello!

SS: Sheriff Sills.

Guard: Okay!

SS: Thank you!

SS: This is a very bland community.

PH: Even though Sheriff Sills is left with few leads in this case, there is one vital piece of information that he had been holding back from the public for a while, an eyewitness account.


(thanks dancin' for tagging that information in the podcast) :tyou:

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Pretty certain if viewing the dermonds home from across the cove, they could not see the driveway, i would venture to say NONE of the houses across the cove could see the driveway, it was blocked by the screen porch on one side basically and the length of the front of the house on the other

So no one would have known if cars pulled in from that angle but only i think the house on the end of the cove had the best view of their lakeside lawn or if on the side yard of the neighbor to their right, maybe they could too but if near the opening of cove it looks like you could see the upper most part of yard if any at all from pictures i saw at that angle and definitely the house but not mid yard due to some small dogwoods or soemthing near the shore

I would be interested to know what people think as well about where the lawn is that was referred to,I dont think it ever said FRONT LAWN and by saying thru the trees, out there and at a distance, seems like from a ways away like across the cove, there are no neighborhing houses on the street, is that right? anyone?

I wold venture to say that if the killers came by car AND BY BOAT, they surely came only to kill and it was a hit without a doubt and factor in the beheading and hauling her down river......SOMEBODY NEVER EVER EVER EVER WANTED TO BE CAUGHT

 

[Bootsctr]

You're welcome, i remembered it was near the end of part 2 thankfully so easy to find! lol

I will have to relisten, AGAIN, lol, thought it was "it's what she couldnt see that was important, , instead of the negative, its NOT what, dang negative negatives LOL

thanks for the transcript boots!

Right at 30:32 if anyone wants to listen:

[video=youtube;rwrgugkLIZ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwrgugkLIZ4&t=971s[/video]

 

[Bootsctr]

:bump: Bumping dancin's list again. Added #11. Caught in affair. This was a theory introduced early on too.

Let's do this:

1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or at least in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence.

8 - Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes.

9 - Mistaken identity. Killer was supposed to kill the neighbors, but incorrect information was listed and they murdered the wrong people.

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment, but I don't think this kind of rage would be there.

11 - Affair. RD was found out by the husband and killed because of affair.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

you could see the dermond house from "BACK there"

ALSO DO we think he stuttered over it meaning it's what you couldnt see that was important...........in other words she did not see the important things, due to glancing or trees in way or whatever, distance etc

It's not what...its no...its what she couldnt see that was important...........is how i heard and understood it....

he's so confusing sometimes tho LOL

Thanks for details on link!


Here is the link from that post.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147...xbf34f9972461ee90!2m2!1d-83.234624!2d33.39823[/QUOTE]

Right at 30:32 if anyone wants to listen:

[video=youtube;rwrgugkLIZ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwrgugkLIZ4&t=971s[/video]

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I dont believe this was a "SUDDEN" anger adn reaction by the killer.............there would have been a big mess and things strewn, house wrecked etc IMO

If it was anger, it was well planned out

If it was a hit, it was well planned out

both the latters would find a crime scene without any chaos or things stolen

IMO IMO

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...b1df5a5de07016fc!8m2!3d33.398046!4d-83.236468

this is a winter image......would be very shady and lots of canvas in may.....shows how isolated the dermonds house was/is....it also shows one dock i can see at the cove opening........these lots had so many trees, not sure how anyone noticed anything except the fact the Dermonds lot was void of many trees so if the neighbors across cove were outside near water or on the docks, they had a good view,otherwise not so good but unless shirtless as someone mentioned, no way to tell if male or female without any shirt color or hair colors seems the witness is withholding ....Tried to get a streetview but The little fellow you drag for streetviews, isnt doing his job LOL....

Looking at the overhead map that Fred&Edna posted above (#387), there is another house on Carolyn Dr. Their dock is at the mouth of the cove with their land along the inside of the cove. On Westview Way which abuts the same cove on the other side, there are also two houses that have land on the cove, one of which has a dock in the cove.

I don't really believe the perp/s went after the Dermonds in particular. More likely, they found a quiet cove that looked unoccupied and picked a house to vandalize, rob or break in and party.and mistakenly picked one where someone was home. To cover their tracks, they killed them. Now that I put this down in writing, I'm not so sure though.


Here is the link from that post.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147...xbf34f9972461ee90!2m2!1d-83.234624!2d33.39823

:bump: Bumping dancin's list again. Added #11. Caught in affair. This was a theory introduced early on too.

Let's do this:

1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or at least in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence.

8 - Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes.

9 - Mistaken identity. Killer was supposed to kill the neighbors, but incorrect information was listed and they murdered the wrong people.

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment, but I don't think this kind of rage would be there.

11 - Affair. RD was found out by the husband and killed because of affair.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

That's what I've been chattering about for a year or two now!! LOL
They came by water from Lawrence shoals by Wallace dam, they are familiar with water, with dissecting/fileting/skinning as SS said, poachers as SS said would have cast netting, or they are seamen as well as Oconnee fishermen, maybe came in just before dawn as " fishermenn in the cove" dropped a guy or two off on last lot by Dermonds in cove to do the deed, not sure how it all played out once they arrived, , stole nothing OBVIOUS anyway, money and whiskey and jwelry left behind, stopped bloodflow with towels as was stated by SS so no one driving up would see blood giving them that 48 hour window, knowing no one would stop by before then, they left at nightfall, their boatman came back, picked them all up, could have easily carried MRs D in the woods to boat and no one would have seen a thing, obviously didnt however it played out....then dropped SD in the lake on their way to the dam, all the while appearing as fishermen, no one around down there to suspect anything or see anything exited at Lawrence Shoals with no bodies in boat and got on hwy 16, in la la land, no one would have a clue, no cameras at LS, no people up there much druing the day much less at night, it's quiet much of the time and the killers had nothing WITH THEM to hide at that point anyway

GONE

At this point, I am leaning toward killer/s came by boat. Just looking at where the D's dock was located in the cove and where SD's body was found (5 miles away from the home in the lake), it seems to me that the killer/s were very familiar with the lake.

It kind of makes sense to me that the killer could live on Lake Oconee. But just as likely they dumped SD's body as they were leaving the lake... or going back the opposite direction to go home.

Thinking about where RD's body was found, behind the vehicles in the garage, the killer/s wanted to hide the crime as long as possible. He wasn't outdoors, but in the climate-controlled garage. Not out in the open to be found. Just like they hid SD's body, they wanted to hide RD's as long as they could. They definitely got through the 48 hour marker!

If they had wanted, they could have posed RD's body for the ultimate shock value. After rigor mortis had passed (1-4 days), they could have sat him in his easy chair, minus his head, in the living room beside SD's easy chair, put a cigar in his hand and had a glass of whiskey sitting beside him on the table. Scratch that! I don't think the killer/s hung around long enough for rigor mortis to pass. They waited for the cover of night to move and sink SD's body.

Just thinking about snakes. You always cut a snake's head off to make sure it is dead. It's just what you do.

 

[Bootsctr]

you could see the dermond house from "BACK there"

ALSO DO we think he stuttered over it meaning it's what you couldnt see that was important...........in other words she did not see the important things, due to glancing or trees in way or whatever, distance etc

It's not what...its no...its what she couldnt see that was important...........is how i heard and understood it....

he's so confusing sometimes tho LOL

Thanks for details on link!


Here is the link from that post.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147...xbf34f9972461ee90!2m2!1d-83.234624!2d33.39823

Gotcha! Yes, he is confusing! lol!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Given the neatness of the home and yard and nothing was amiss or nothing was missing that we KNOW of but not the obvious cash in wallet or rolex watch or whiskey in basement as SS said he had quite a stash I think were his words
Lets do this again but IM going to remove anything that would be unplanned like a sudden snap by someone who had a beef with them or him and see what is left and others seemingly uninvolved

WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE? But in my mind, Ive narrowed it down to 3 and still not sure about serial killer
Let's do this:

1- see notes below

2-see notes below
3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or at least in the same state

4-see notes below
5-see notes below

6- see notes

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence, could be that someone the D's were kin to owed money or family could have hired hit needing money

8 - see notes below

9 - see notes below

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment, but I don't think this kind of rage would be there.

11 - see notes below
12 -see notes
explained

1-angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake
2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry
5-extortion, well they stole nothing obvious and if they didnt succeed in extorting then wouldn they have taken something atleast?
6- robbers, didnt take anything obvious tho that was left behind
8-illigitimate son...why would they have an illigitimate son, they'd been together since 18......but even if he'd planned this out, I would think to do this there would be too much anger invovled still not to smash some things
9-mistaken identity....those idiots would have to be dead and killed by their bozz or would have been back to get the right ones by now! And tax records and gps and googlemaps gives you eveyrhig you need to find the place you want to go
11-Affair. RD was 89, maybe, maybe not a sex drive but I would think still that there would be too much anger in this situation to have left house in such pristine condition
12-Thrill kill, would have been planned out but not sure they would haul her down river

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Hockeyguy, are you going to work on a timeline you mentioned or do you have time? That would be very interesting!

 

[Lawdog99]

I still think they came for item or info and murder was hired whether they got what they came for or not....HIT!

 

[watcher9]

Trying to see how big the front lawn was, I typed in the wrong address by accident and look what I found. Their neighbor's house is up for sale with pictures. The first two pictures show a great view of the cove.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/143-Carolyn-Dr_Eatonton_GA_31024_M52164-07460#

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

WOW, thanks! BEST SHOT YET!! I looked their house up the other day but surely didnt see this great shot....you can clearly see, since it's winter, the house directly aacross has a great view of their back yard but I think in another pic maybe in front of that house on the water, there were small trees by teh water blocking any view

otherwise you can clearly tell that house or the last one in cove were the eyewitnesses, cant imagine living there having seen the perp on the lawn and later finding out about the murders!

That house has been for sale off and on a while tho right? Very high priced last I saw 1.9 or something?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I have to agree, whatever the reason, it was meticulously planned and executed ! LOL, i sound like foxfire now!

 

[watcher9]

Typing in the right address, I found this set of pictures. Notice the one that shows part of the front lawn. There is a lot of landscaping but also grass so it looks like a pretty good sized yard. There are trees, but it doesn't look wooded.

http://www.movoto.com/eatonton-ga/147-carolyn-dr-eatonton-ga-31024-421_7369803/.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Thats not the front lawn! that is the lakeside LAWN! haha The only lawn they have really

here's the front of the house facing the road, all trees, some grass yes but i wouldn tconsider that a lawn adn they have no neighbors on the road side

http://pi.movoto.com/p/421/07369803_0_uiZAff.jpeg

Typing in the right address, I found this set of pictures. Notice the one that shows part of the front lawn. There is a lot of landscaping but also grass so it looks like a pretty good sized yard. There are trees, but it doesn't look wooded.

http://www.movoto.com/eatonton-ga/147-carolyn-dr-eatonton-ga-31024-421_7369803/.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

the cove neighbors lot was wooded, that is what they were looking through Im thinking, not the dermonds trees but their own trees adn could see some man on the lawn, lakeside

 

[oceanblueeyes]

could be the mail person or it could have been someone out walking their dog. Now we know it's a female who saw the guy in the yard so that answers that question. He has a description or at least a asic description he just won't give out that information for obvious reasons. He did mention from a distance so maybe it was from across the river

I really think if it was a mailman or someone walking their dog they would have come forward early on to let LE know they were the one the lady saw.

I suspect this was the murderer since he has never been identified by anyone in the area nor has he willingly come forward on his own to set the record straight.

JMO