GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[colette]

I think the head removal was done because the gun/bullet in the head was rare and would point to the killer.

 

[s. simon]

I still believe that by beheading Mr Dermond and not Beheading Mrs Dermond that this was someone close to them who had no problem with Mrs D . Cult killing they both would have been beheaded

Taking the head as proof also makes little sense, given the media attention to a murder in this neighborhood would bring. Proof is trivial under these conditions.

I think cutting off the head was done to confuse identification of the male body.

 

[s. simon]

colette,

I think a pro would not have used an identifiable weapon; an amateur would have probably been caught by now.

 

[colette]

colette,

I think a pro would not have used an identifiable weapon; an amateur would have probably been caught by now.

Someone who had a grudge and only this unusual gun might do this.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Taking the head as proof also makes little sense, given the media attention to a murder in this neighborhood would bring. Proof is trivial under these conditions.

I think cutting off the head was done to confuse identification of the male body.

I don't think it took them more than a few minutes to figure out it was Mr Dermond. This was rage and well planned out. This happened 42 months ago and still no suspect or person of interest

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I am not a believer in the theory of the beheading of mr dermond was to buy time. I also don't believe the head was taken to show proof of the killing. I do believe the head was disposed of and probably in the same area as Mrs Dermond . Nobody would want to be in possession of a head for fear of being caught . This killing was well planned and executed professionally. SS mentioned early on he had all forms of evidence including prints, fibers and dna and I truly believe he knows who the killer or killers are but can't win a conviction without a witness.

 

[jonnyrock]

Another question I ask myself: why the elaborate, almost staged double murder involving post mortem decapitation of one victim and post mortem body disposal into a lake of the other victim? Could it have been for effect, as in a ruse? Misdirection (the magician's best friend)? Think about it: these murders took a lot of planning, a lot of work and involved significant risk but why go to such lengths? So many questions and so few answers. If the intent was to draw our attention to or away from something I'm missing it.

 

[Vedder]

Another question I ask myself: why the elaborate, almost staged double murder involving post mortem decapitation of one victim and post mortem body disposal into a lake of the other victim? Could it have been for effect, as in a ruse? Misdirection (the magician's best friend)? Think about it: these murders took a lot of planning, a lot of work and involved significant risk but why go to such lengths? So many questions and so few answers. If the intent was to draw our attention to or away from something I'm missing it.

To make it look like Mrs. Dermond killed her husband and fled?

 

[Bootsctr]

To make it look like Mrs. Dermond killed her husband and fled?

I agree with this. Although admittedly I never truly thought Mrs. D killed her husband, until her body surfaced, there was always a possibility, no matter how small. I think it divided the investigation, some focusing on Mr. D and the home, and others in searching for Mrs. D in the lake and beyond with the billboards. Any tip sightings would have to be investigated and I would think there would be people out there who would swear on the Bible that they had seen Shirley after the information went public that Mr. D was murdered and she was MIA. Maybe even the perp himself could have called in sightings. I don't recall any sightings of Mrs. D being reported, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

The fact that whomever carried out the murders and split the Dermonds' bodies up makes me believe they could have a background in law enforcement. I remember some talking heads (Mark Fuhrman) commenting on Mrs. D not being found at the home and saying they believed it was someone with knowledge of how law enforcement operates in such situations. I do believe this act bought the perp some more time and added another level of intrigue to this case.

I do wish they could come up with a composite sketch of the POI that was witnessed at the Dermonds' residence that weekend. I think it would renew interest in the case and bring in new tips. Just my opinion.

 

[s. simon]

I don't think it took them more than a few minutes to figure out it was Mr Dermond. This was rage and well planned out. This happened 42 months ago and still no suspect or person of interest

I don't see rage. SS said : "For instance, the clinical way in which Russell Dermond was beheaded would seemingly indicate the work of a professional. But the haphazard way in which his wife’s body was disposed of, weighed down by a pair of 30-pound concrete blocks, doesn’t point to a contract killing."http://www.myajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/promising-leads-but-answers-investigation-eatonton-slayings/1sVDu4xz1r1XXlnz49oCsI/

Elsewhere I recall SS saying the beheading was performed with great care, almost indicating remorse. I'm unable to give a reference for this last. Many of the original links now give 404.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

SS may think that but only a person full of rage or a psycho would behead someone. Honestly have you ever heard of a sane person beheading someone. How could SS conclude the beheading was done with care.?

 

[jonnyrock]

I believe the precision of the cut, so to speak, points to someone who had above average knife skills, perhaps a big game hunter (field dressing) or someone with past experience as a butcher?

 

[s. simon]

SS may think that but only a person full of rage or a psycho would behead someone. Honestly have you ever heard of a sane person beheading someone. How could SS conclude the beheading was done with care.?

That's what he observed. I agree with you that most beheadings involve rage, where the head is hacked off. This one did not.

Could not that fact be this case's equivalent of the dog that did not bark in the night time ?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Oh yes Razz I can see that too.....You know what I mean, someone the knew didnt have a beef with her just him, so even thos killing her was ok, they didn't (psychologically i guess?) want to "hurt" her, like they did him....but yes I see what you see too...thanks

Yes, I see. But I think it was easier to behead the man (after he was already deceased) than a nice elderly lady (who they made sure was dead before subjecting her to the water.) I'm thinking (hoping) that the purpose was not to frighten them or make them suffer unduly, but to make others suffer by having them imagine what these 2 elderly people went through.



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[dancinunderthemoon]

same here Hockey guy.... About that Maples neighbor, GET THIS< TWO DIFFERENT STEPHEN MAPLES....is that too weird!! I read maples in the reports on the latest of TEX McIVer and kept saying maples, maples, i know that name......and then realized but upon further investigation, that stephen died a few years back and the other stephen atty is on the Mciver team...so weird

I am not a believer in the theory of the beheading of mr dermond was to buy time. I also don't believe the head was taken to show proof of the killing. I do believe the head was disposed of and probably in the same area as Mrs Dermond . Nobody would want to be in possession of a head for fear of being caught . This killing was well planned and executed professionally. SS mentioned early on he had all forms of evidence including prints, fibers and dna and I truly believe he knows who the killer or killers are but can't win a conviction without a witness.

 

[watcher9]

This link from June this year says that SS does not believe it to be a professional who did this
- and -

The couple&#8217;s three children voluntarily took polygraphs and all have been cleared.

http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/putnam-county-sheriff-still-haunted-by-couples-murder

 

[wildebeest]

Have been reading up on the Tex McIver case, and am a little bothered by the fact SS is good friends with him. His trial has been postponed, as the DA is searching for additional evidence. Does anyone have thoughts about this?

IMHO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Sounds like SS is a typical old time Sherriff.

 

[s. simon]

I have been reading and thinking about this case for years. Over that time I have become fond of both Dermonds as well as their relationship with each other. I have thought of a possible solution to the case which follows, but both my heart and soul completely reject this solution.

Russell Dermond, 88, almost certainly was murdered somewhere other than the garage, Sills said Monday – which he had suggested earlier.
The amount and pattern of blood in the garage suggested the corpse was brought to the house, Sills said.
After receiving results of an autopsy, he said the official cause of Dermond’s death is “cranial cerebral trauma” – which means the victim’s head was not found with the body. http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/...9bb2963f4.html

I agree with you that most beheadings involve rage, where the head is hacked off. This one did not.
Could not that fact be this case's equivalent of the dog that did not bark in the night time ?

I think the reason for returning the body to the residence from the murder scene coupled with the obvious lack of rage involved in removing the head (SS: "clinical") are the keys to this case.

Suppose a man wants to murder his wife and not end up as a suspect himself, he could fake his own death. To do this he needs a body double roughly his size. In Mr D's case he also needed a male who has had a knee operation on his right knee. A homeless person from Atlanta would be a possible candidate because his body will never be identified, and no one will know he is dead.

After removing the head at a remote location, he would need to flatten one of the fingers in a vise. Neither the man's anatomy nor the knee scar need be exact as he would be correct in concluding that no one who had known him in life would be allowed to see headless body. After confirming the presence of both the knee scar and the flattened finger in a phone call to Mr. D's daughter, the remainder of the identification would be by fingerprints.

Mr. D's fingerprints from his military record were over 70 years old. The test fingerprints had to be taken from a body that had been dead for at least several days. To the extent that fingerprint identification is subjective (the literature widely claims this), the knowledge of both the flattened finger and the knee scar, coupled with the body being dressed in Mr. D's robe, T shirt and shorts would create a bias for a positive identification. In any event, in order for this theory of the murder to be valid an error in fingerprint identification would have been required.

If these events transpired, the need to return the headless body to the home is clear. The head removal would show no anger. I invite members of this thread to find things (other than fingerprints, of course) that are unexplained by this theory of the crime.

I found this theory to be so compelling that I e-mailed it to SS several months ago. Although I included a return e-mail address and phone number, it has never been acknowledged. He must have found it lacking.

Again, I reject this theory of the crime on an emotional level. I don't want it to be true.

 

[Vedder]

If these events transpired, the need to return the headless body to the home is clear. The head removal would show no anger. I invite members of this thread to find things (other than fingerprints, of course) that are unexplained by this theory of the crime.

I found this theory to be so compelling that I e-mailed it to SS several months ago. Although I included a return e-mail address and phone number, it has never been acknowledged. He must have found it lacking.

Again, I reject this theory of the crime on an emotional level. I don't want it to be true.

RSBM for space

The autopsy would show that the finger injury was recent.