GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[Hickory Born]

One thing I have been curious about for awhile now, is what was the outcome of the credit card fraud that the Dermonds reported ?? A credit card was used to make online purchases, which means that the 3 digit security code would have been required. This means that the perp either had the card in hand, or had written the numbers down and used them later.

The only way I know that numbers can be written down and used later is if you were in someones house, or if you somehow obtained the cards, copied the info needed, and then replaced the cards without detection.

What if it turns out that it was a friend or a relative that used them and the Dermonds either declined to press charges...or.....charges were pending ?

Would them reporting it to the police or encouraging the police to press charges be enough to send someone into a rage like this ??

It's possible. It's also possible that it was someone known to them. Someone that tried to steal from them and got caught. I know they reported that the cards had been used to make online purchases, but I never heard what the outcome of that was.

If anybody knows for sure, fill me in.

:beersign:

When you are eating out in a nice restaurant the waiter takes your card away from the table. At this point he could write down any numbers he wished.

By ordering online didn't the person have to give a mailing address for the merchandise to be shipped to?

 

[luckygirl]

I did say early on IF Mr. D was shot by a government issued weapon and the bullet didn't exit his head, that is why his head was taken.
I bet they have checked his weapon to see if it has recently been fired...

Sills seems to be moving right along.
Expains why he wasn't out and about today.
moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

This theory would explain a lot huh?

 

[Xara]

Investigators rule out evidence in Lake Oconee murder mystery
http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/investigators-rule-out-evidence-in-lake-oconee/vCbbRX/


Baldwin County Sheriff talks about investigation in double Putnam County homicide
http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/baldwin-county-sheriff-talks-about-investigation/vCbbRS/

I can't seem to view any of the videos from this site. Is anyone else having trouble? I am on a tablet and could use some advice if someone can help! TIA.

 

[tomkat]

As the saying goes:

"no news is good news"

but not in this case

Anxiously awaiting SOMETHING good in the news about this case !

 

[tomkat]

I can't seem to view any of the videos from this site. Is anyone else having trouble? I am on a tablet and could use some advice if someone can help! TIA.

Mine pops right up

Your computer may be slow, very slow, mine stalled a few times a while back

took forever

on the other hand, DO you have a popup blocker on?

needs to be turned off maybe?

go to "tools" in your system, popup blocker and change the settings

all i know for now ! good luck

 

[steelman]

When you are eating out in a nice restaurant the waiter takes your card away from the table. At this point he could write down any numbers he wished.

By ordering online didn't the person have to give a mailing address for the merchandise to be shipped to?

Yes you would. Also, I remember one of the cards was used to make a purchase from Amazon. I buy stuff from them all the time and have it shipped directly to me. I'm puzzled as to whether that fraud report was ever followed up on and who the responsible parties were. Were they arrested ? Did the Dermonds press charges ?? Did the Dermonds deline to press charges once they found out who it was ?? It should have been Detective Class 101 in order to track down something that simple.

There may be a very good answer to those questions, I just haven't heard them yet.

I could see someone who was caught stealing red handed become furious about it, especially if they were stealing from someone who appeared to have too much already. I'm not going to name a POI, but I think you can see where this is going, inside job, close and personal.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

<BBM for Focus>

Ocean, I agree that there is no indications of a mob or cartel involvement.. Although I agree that there may have been anger involved.

I disagree that the beheading indicates that there was any prior pent up anger and rage directed at the Dermonds. Imo, the perp/s had pre-planned, and executed this sadistic and heinous crime without any human emotions, as would a mountain lion with its prey..
It doesn't require any prior or specialized training to decapitate a person with a clean cut if the proper tool is available. Although a sharp serrated kitchen knife can be used for this purpose, imo a hack saw was likely used..

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Buck-Bros-Standard-Hack-Saw-12050/100351892

Guess, it is possible that the perp was interviewed during the neighborhood canvass..
Thirty questions seems more like an assessment or psychological evaluation, rather than a standard information gathering interview, huh? Prolly had a question or two thrown in to indicate truthfulness too. If I was a betting person, I would wage money that many of the questions were likely designed by the behavioral analysis unit with a specific profile of the unknown suspect/s in mind..

Although very rare due to the victim's ages.. Imo, due to a probable meth/molly connection, and the sadistic nature in the Dermond's abduction/murder/decapitation. It would be reasonable to conclude that the primary motive may have been sexual..JMO

Good morning FoxFire!

Your analysis certainly could turnout to be accurate. The only options I don't consider are those that involve cartels or the mafia,

I believe there does have to be some type of skill if the rumor is true that the decapitation was a clean cut. I think using a hack saw or a serrated edged knife would make a very jagged cut due to the 'teeth' of both the hack saw and the serrated knife. Those type of tools would not leave a clean cut imo. While anyone I suppose anyone could decapitate someone if they were bound and determined to do so but to know where to decapitate where the head gave the least resistance does require some skill and knowledge, imo. That knowledge could come from professions or hobbies.

If I just thought about the head removal only then I would probably agree with you that it certainly could be done by a sociopath or even those strung out on meth.

However; it is hard for me to reconcile that knowing that this perpetrator went to a lot of effort to hide the head and Shirley's remains. Wrongly or rightly that tells me at least that this is very personal and it is all about rage and hatred by someone very familiar with the Dermonds.

I read the article again where it described the area in which he would have to travel to get to the site he submerged Shirley's body in. It wasn't just a lucky happenstance to me that he put the body away from any homes. The closest home was a third of a mile away from the site where he submerged her. He knows this area very well.

I just cant see a stranger sociopath or meth heads going through all of this trouble and effort to get rid of the body and try to hide it. I can see someone with a personal connection to the Dermonds doing it though.

Sheriff Sills is certainly a sly old fox! That is why he gave them no forewarning they would be doing this. He wants to keep communication open but in the same instance he and the FBI behavioral unit get together and devise these 30 questions. I wonder if they each had to fill out a form in writing with the 30 questions on it? If so, that way they can also obtain their fingerprints and don't even have to have a SW to do it.

We can all believe that the profilers will be going through each and every question and answer given by everyone. Not only to see what the answer is but how each of them phrased their answers and whether it may show deception. No matter what Sills says...........he and the FBI are looking for any suspects that may dwell there. That is exactly what they are looking for! LOL!

I had read somewhere last year about how the FBI and police departments are advancing in interview techniques and they mentioned giving a list of questions which can gleam many things than just the answers given. I do think it is highly possible that the murderer was interviewed Sunday along with all the rest at RP.

Lets hope he is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Elderly women have been raped before so I am certainly not ruling out that was the possible motive either. Nor am I ruling out that the perpetrator may be older than the age we usually see in these kind of cases.

IMO

 

[mck16]

When you are eating out in a nice restaurant the waiter takes your card away from the table. At this point he could write down any numbers he wished.

By ordering online didn't the person have to give a mailing address for the merchandise to be shipped to?

I have no idea how it is done, but it was done to me and my card is never out of my possession or out of my sight. Just as when the Target card incident happened. The people who used my card number were in Toronto Canada at a Western Union. I am in Texas. There is someway they can get numbers and I am sure it is a full time business for them. jmo

 

[goprincess]

Do you happen to know what the weather was like the weekend of the murders? TIA

IIRC, the weather in Athens (one hour north of the Dermond's home) was bad April 29 through May 1, but the storm system had pretty much dissipated by the night of May 1. There were flood and tornado watches in the Athens area, but it was mostly rain or thunderstorms south of here. So the Putnam County area probably had a lot of rain Apr 29-May 1, but the weather wasn't bad over the weekend. MOO.

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2014-04-29/tornado-flood-watches-effect-athens-area

 

[Dr.Watson]

They described the area as stump filled on WSB. Showed a shot of the lake with dead trees sticking up out of the water. I could see maybe three of four tall trees in the water from their shot. Now I feel sick when I think of the description "placed."

Carolinapeach, do you still have a link to this video? All of the ones I find now seem to link back to just one report that doesn't have the section with the reporter (I think it was Richard Elliot) showing video of the trees and stumps sticking up out of the water - I think he even said it was where she was found - would LE ask them to delete that video??? There's something I thought of that I wanted to ask y'all about, and I wanted to pull a still image from that video - does anyone have it? Thanks...

 

[Carolinapeach]

Carolinapeach, do you still have a link to this video? All of the ones I find now seem to link back to just one report that doesn't have the section with the reporter (I think it was Richard Elliot) showing video of the trees and stumps sticking up out of the water - I think he even said it was where she was found - would LE ask them to delete that video??? There's something I thought of that I wanted to ask y'all about, and I wanted to pull a still image from that video - does anyone have it? Thanks...

A still image would be great. Thanks.
http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/investigators-rule-out-evidence-in-lake-oconee/vCbbRX/

 

[Xara]

I have no idea how it is done, but it was done to me and my card is never out of my possession or out of my sight. Just as when the Target card incident happened. The people who used my card number were in Toronto Canada at a Western Union. I am in Texas. There is someway they can get numbers and I am sure it is a full time business for them. jmo

Its called high tech pick pocketing. Radio frequency identification...... Sorry I am so lame and don't know how to link on this darn tablet!.......basically, for 10$ you can buy a scanner online, walk up behind someone in line somewhere and scan their CC through their back pocket.

Google "high tech pickpocketing"........ Its scary......happened to my BF is how I know.....men especially need to be aware since they tend to put their wallets in their back pocket.
In my bf's case it was on a cc he never uses....we live in Ma...and the charges on it were from NJ.

 

[Foxfire]

Good morning FoxFire!

Your analysis certainly could turnout to be accurate. The only options I don't consider are those that involve cartels or the mafia,

I believe there does have to be some type of skill if the rumor is true that the decapitation was a clean cut. I think using a hack saw or a serrated edged knife would make a very jagged cut due to the 'teeth' of both the hack saw and the serrated knife. Those type of tools would not leave a clean cut imo. While anyone I suppose anyone could decapitate someone if they were bound and determined to do so but to know where to decapitate where the head gave the least resistance does require some skill and knowledge, imo. That knowledge could come from professions or hobbies.

If I just thought about the head removal only then I would probably agree with you that it certainly could be done by a sociopath or even those strung out on meth.

However; it is hard for me to reconcile that knowing that this perpetrator went to a lot of effort to hide the head and Shirley's remains. Wrongly or rightly that tells me at least that this is very personal and it is all about rage and hatred by someone very familiar with the Dermonds.

I read the article again where it described the area in which he would have to travel to get to the site he submerged Shirley's body in. It wasn't just a lucky happenstance to me that he put the body away from any homes. The closest home was a third of a mile away from the site where he submerged her. He knows this area very well.

I just cant see a stranger sociopath or meth heads going through all of this trouble and effort to get rid of the body. I can see someone with a personal connection to the Dermonds doing it though.

Sheriff Sills is certainly a sly old fox! That is why he gave them no forewarning they would be doing this. He wants to keep communication open but in the same instance he and the FBI behavioral unit get together and devise these 30 questions. I wonder if they each had to fill out a form in writing with the 30 questions on it? If so, that way they can also obtain their fingerprints and don't even have to have a SW to do it.

We can all believe that the profilers will be going through each and every question and answer given by everyone. Not only to see what the answer is but how each of them phrased their answers and whether it may show deception. No matter what Sills says...........he and the FBI are looking for any suspects that may dwell there. That is exactly what they are looking for! LOL!

I had read somewhere last year about how the FBI and police departments are advancing in interview techniques and they mentioned giving a list of questions which can gleam many things than just the answers given. I do think it is highly possible that the murderer was interviewed Sunday along with all the rest at RP.

Lets hope he is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Elderly women have been raped before so I am certainly not ruling out that was the possible motive either. Nor am I ruling out that the perpetrator may be older than the age we usually see in these kind of cases.

IMO

<BBM for focus>

As for the location of SD's body, imo she was held captive for a few days until Mr D's torso was located by neighbors and the crime hit the news. Imo, there is at least one other crime scene/ritual grounds location that has yet to be identified by investigators. This crime scene will likely be in the general vicinity of the boat ramps near SD's body location, imo..

I agree that the assessments were a very sly strategy to get fingerprints, as well as other info, forensics; dna, etc., w/o a sw. Even if the suspect/perp/s were not present during the neighborhood canvass, due to familial dna. The suspect may possibly be identified due to this sneaky but effective investigative tactic..

GA's DNA Laws were updated and virtually unanimously(one(D) Nay) passed by the GA Legislature after the tragic abduction/murder/decapitation of hiker Meredith Hope Emerson in early 2008. The GA DNA Law is titled; Meredith Emerson's DNA Law.. Up until her abduction/murder, a GA suspect's dna could not be entered into databases or shared with other LEAs for other cases until after conviction. This was the primary reason given me for the LWOP plea agreement offered to serial killer Gary M Hilton. GMH was arrested, indicted, convicted, and sentenced LWOP, in less than 30 days; Dawson County Superior Ct.

A 10 year old homicide cold case was solved soon after the passing the Meredith Emerson dna law. I'm sure there has been many more solved since..."Wouldn't it be amazing if the Dermond investigation was solved due to the Meredith Hope Emerson DNA Law"?

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20080208/NEWS/168020338

http://onlineathens.com/stories/020908/genassembly_20080209003.shtml

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/pageDocuments/I6W7Q3D7RM.pdf

 

[Carolinapeach]

IIRC, the weather in Athens (one hour north of the Dermond's home) was bad April 29 through May 1, but the storm system had pretty much dissipated by the night of May 1. There were flood and tornado watches in the Athens area, but it was mostly rain or thunderstorms south of here. So the Putnam County area probably had a lot of rain Apr 29-May 1, but the weather wasn't bad over the weekend. MOO.

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2014-04-29/tornado-flood-watches-effect-athens-area

I think you are right. We were at Sinclair for the weekend. I don't remember any rain at all.

 

[ClaireNC]

When you are eating out in a nice restaurant the waiter takes your card away from the table. At this point he could write down any numbers he wished.

By ordering online didn't the person have to give a mailing address for the merchandise to be shipped to?

It is pretty common for a waiter in a restaurant to take the card and write down the numbers, especially in resort areas. It is more likely to have happened when they were traveling someplace, not necessarily local. (Maybe in Florida while visiting a son?) It can happen any place where you present your card and the cashier manually types the numbers into the system. They just flip the card over and get the security code off the back. Older people are easier prey, because they don't suspect anything when they present their card for a normal transaction. There is also electronic pick-pocketing as somebody described above.

Another thing is they might have had some malware on their computer that recorded their account number and security code when they were making an online purchase. The person doing the stealing could be anywhere in the world. Also the person that stole the credit card information might not be the person who made the purchases. There is a black market for stolen credit card numbers, they sell the numbers to others to use.

As for shipping, there are ways around having something shipped to a home. If you use the USPS for shipping, the item can be shipped to a PO Box. Also scammers use drop boxes, like a USP store or Mailboxes Etc. In more sophisticated scams, the scammers hire unsuspecting mules to accept deliveries and have them shipped on to their final destination. (Common with electronics, computers, etc. that are being resold.) The Macys.com order could have been shipped to a store.

In this case, it might have been two different individuals making the purchases. The Amazon.com order was most likely for something that could be resold. While, the Macy's order could have been something that was purchased then returned to the store for cash. Again, once the credit card information is stolen, it is often sold, so several individuals could be using that information. A few years ago, somebody stole my daughter's debit card information. There was a purchase made in Nevada and one made in London, England on the same day. She lived in New Jersey at the time. The bank caught the unusual charges and put a block on the card.

It is very unlikely that the police did anything to track down who stole their credit card info. Identity theft and credit card fraud are so common that LE do not have the resources to track down the thieves. I doubt that it has anything to do with the murders.

 

[tomkat]

I think you are right. We were at Sinclair for the weekend. I don't remember any rain at all.

I don't recall any that weekend at sinclair, it hit all around that date tho i think

 

[osu]

Do you happen to know what the weather was like the weekend of the murders? TIA

Here's a detailed weather blog for Athens, GA and surrounding areas with maps for the weekend of the murders. According to the site, there were strong storms with high winds in that area on Wednesday, April 30th and then things cleared out by Thursday giving way to a warm, sunny weekend.

Thursday, May 1st and Friday, May 2nd daily weather:
(Scroll down page)
http://www.athensgaweather.com/category/daily/page/7/

Saturday, May 3rd and Sunday, May 4th daily weather:
(Scroll down page)
http://www.athensgaweather.com/category/daily/page/6/


Thursday: Decreasing clouds throughout the day becoming partly cloudy to mostly sunny. Breezy conditions in the afternoon hours. Sustained winds around 10-15 mph with gusts as high as 25 mph. High: 73°F. Low: 58°F

Friday: A slight (20%) chance of morning showers, then mostly cloudy skies. High: 72°F. Low: 50°F

Saturday: Mostly sunny with low humidity. Breezy conditions with sustained winds of 5-10 mph with gusts near 20 mph. High: 78°F Low: 49°F

Sunday: Sunny and warm. West winds around 5-10 mph. Gusts could approach 15 mph. High: 87ºF Low: 52ºF

*The temps listed above were the actual highs and lows for the area.

 

[tomkat]

I have no idea how it is done, but it was done to me and my card is never out of my possession or out of my sight. Just as when the Target card incident happened. The people who used my card number were in Toronto Canada at a Western Union. I am in Texas. There is someway they can get numbers and I am sure it is a full time business for them. jmo

probably someone physically handled the card, it's easy to call up anyone and as long as you have the security code, the order will process

Or they did just that, called up to place an order or pay a bill and the receiving end just used it again after they were given the CC # and the sec code

IDK how you could prevent this except that the banks will call us if we have too many purchases in a day or two, to warn of CC fraud, then you dispute the charges

 

[mck16]

Its called high tech pick pocketing. Radio frequency identification...... Sorry I am so lame and don't know how to link on this darn tablet!.......basically, for 10$ you can buy a scanner online, walk up behind someone in line somewhere and scan their CC through their back pocket.

Google "high tech pickpocketing"........ Its scary......happened to my BF is how I know.....men especially need to be aware since they tend to put their wallets in their back pocket.
In my bf's case it was on a cc he never uses....we live in Ma...and the charges on it were from NJ.

That is one way I am sure it can be done, but most of my purchases are online from home. I honestly think it is an employee that is processing the order or works in the billing office. And I feel like it is a large business e.g. Amazon, QVC, etc. I just try and stay on top of my bank statement. It helps since charges are pretty much posted immediately. thanks for your input I appreciate it. Every bit of knowledge helps. jmo

 

[atthelake]

Other murders w/decapitation:

http://www.mlive.com/news/jackson/index.ssf/2011/10/brother_calls_shirley_melinda.html

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2013...fter-decapitating-man-on-christmas-day-police

and if those weren't strange enough, here's this adopted son/love triangle (This is one crazy path I ain't on!)

http://www.wkrn.com/story/19013117/decapitated-body-found-in-nashville

The Danny Rolling killings in Gainesville Florida in 1990 is the one I recall. He killed 5 students at over a 3 day period. One of the bodies, he decapitated and put on a shelf. He sexually posed the women after killing them. He was a drifter who was living in a tent when they captured him. He was also linked to 3 killings iirc in Louisiana.