GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[atthelake]

That's what I think. I think the killer tied Mrs. Dermond to one of the trees.

Would be much easier to tie her to an anchor in an area over trees. This would help to ensure that she wouldn't float back up if the anchor caught.

Have lost 2 anchors this way :blushing: in Lake Lanier when the anchor caught on trees under water - no alternative - we had to cut anchor loose.

Lake Lanier is just north of Atlanta....which is also a man made lake - was created in 1959 and has lots of trees that were left when the dam flooded the area to create the lake.

 

[OTPTarheel]

You can have your credit card companies send you an "alert" anytime a purchase it made to your card. So if you get an alert and you didn't make a charge you know to call the CC company immediately. Our family policy.

I am sure with the D's murders LE will be reexamining those charges.If items were shipped those companies have delivery records. And at a drop box you have to have ID to rent one. Could be a fake ID though.

"Sly like a fox" - I agree. The Nuwabian raid was described as "flawless" and the sheriff used the resources of the FBI. Great archived article on http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land I am sure the sheriff made lots of friends in Northern Virginia back then and he is using them now, he's just not talking about it.

 

[mck16]

You can have your credit card companies send you an "alert" anytime a purchase it made to your card. So if you get an alert and you didn't make a charge you know to call the CC company immediately. Our family policy.

I am sure with the D's murders LE will be reexamining those charges.If items were shipped those companies have delivery records. And at a drop box you have to have ID to rent one. Could be a fake ID though.

"Sly like a fox" - I agree. The Nuwabian raid was described as "flawless" and the sheriff used the resources of the FBI. Great archived article on http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2002/fall/savior-in-a-strange-land I am sure the sheriff made lots of friends in Northern Virginia back then and he is using them now, he's just not talking about it.

I don't understand how this incident that occurred 2 years ago could be related to the current situation. What am I missing? ty

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully snipped by me

It is very unlikely that the police did anything to track down who stole their credit card info. Identity theft and credit card fraud are so common that LE do not have the resources to track down the thieves. I doubt that it has anything to do with the murders.

I think LE are getting better about investigating credit card fraud. Recently we received a call from our bank's security asking if we tried to make an online purchase for a smart phone ($600) to be delivered to a Wal-Mart in North Dallas. Of course, no we had not and immediately went our online banking account and could see the pending $600 charge. I then called our local and explained that there was a $600 purchase pending that we did not make. At first the teller told me that if the purchase was used using the 3 digit security code we had no recourse and we would be responsible for the $600. I told her we would be contacting law enforcement to file a report. We called and were able to talk to investigator. He came to our house within the hour and we filled out a report. Interestingly, within aboout 10 minutes of telling the teller we were contacting LE, she called us back and said we would not be responsible for the $600 charge. The detective did follow-up on the case and contacted LE in the area of where the smart phone was to be delivered. We were contacted by the detective in North Dallas and the local detective also followed upon by contacting us a week or so later to see if any more suspicious charges had shown up on our cards. Local LE impressed me that they are taking credit card fraud seriously. It wasn't long after that that 2 people from Mexico were arrested in Texas with hundreds of cloned credit cards. I am grateful these 2 thiefs were caught, but frustrating that there are still many more people out there waiting to prey on innocent people.

 

[Foxfire]

Would be much easier to tie her to an anchor in an area over trees. This would help to ensure that she wouldn't float back up if the anchor caught.

Have lost 2 anchors this way :blushing: in Lake Lanier when the anchor caught on trees under water - no alternative - we had to cut anchor loose.

Lake Lanier is just north of Atlanta....which is also a man made lake - was created in 1959 and has lots of trees that were left when the dam flooded the area to create the lake.

I live near Lanier too, atthelake and have fished it many times. There is a device for getting boat anchors unhung. It is a 10 lb weight that slips over the anchor rope. When it drops and collides with the hung up anchor, it breaks it loose.. 'Necessity, the mother of invention'.. 'Even a bad day of fishin, is still a great day'..

 

[steelman]

Good morning FoxFire!

Your analysis certainly could turnout to be accurate. The only options I don't consider are those that involve cartels or the mafia,

I believe there does have to be some type of skill if the rumor is true that the decapitation was a clean cut. I think using a hack saw or a serrated edged knife would make a very jagged cut due to the 'teeth' of both the hack saw and the serrated knife. Those type of tools would not leave a clean cut imo. While anyone I suppose anyone could decapitate someone if they were bound and determined to do so but to know where to decapitate where the head gave the least resistance does require some skill and knowledge, imo. That knowledge could come from professions or hobbies.

If I just thought about the head removal only then I would probably agree with you that it certainly could be done by a sociopath or even those strung out on meth.

However; it is hard for me to reconcile that knowing that this perpetrator went to a lot of effort to hide the head and Shirley's remains. Wrongly or rightly that tells me at least that this is very personal and it is all about rage and hatred by someone very familiar with the Dermonds.

I read the article again where it described the area in which he would have to travel to get to the site he submerged Shirley's body in. It wasn't just a lucky happenstance to me that he put the body away from any homes. The closest home was a third of a mile away from the site where he submerged her. He knows this area very well.


Lets hope he is not as smart as he thinks he is.



IMO

He's not smart, he's a coward. What kind of a man would attack and kill two elderly people that were almost 90 years old ??

The only thing I can think of that would be more vulnerable would be a litter of newborn puppies.

Don't give this punk (or punks) any credit for being smart. If anything they are just lucky cowards. That luck is gonna run out though, it's just a matter of time.

 

[Bootsctr]

That reminds me of this one case where a resort owner was ambushed and had a cooler of acid poured on his face and body. It literally melted his skin off and he died in the hospital later because of the injuries.

The motive? The president of a condo next door was upset that the resort owner had set up hedges that blocked the view of the beach, which the condo president liked to see whenever he took a walk. So he hired two guys to throw a cooler of acid on the poor guy.

People commit hideous crimes that are 100% nonsensical and indefensible to the rest of us, but probably makes perfect sense to the killer. The Dermonds' murder might have been for a similarly stupid reason.

ETA: Just looked it up. Here is an article for anyone interested. It happened here in Florida (not surprising, since all the really crazy stuff seems to happen here).

I saw that case portrayed on ID. It was awful. The police investigated several avenues who did this, but eventually they caught the perp who was behind the attack. Ugh! All because of some hedges - crazy, crazy, crazy!:facepalm:

 

[Dr.Watson]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo

"I don't want to go into detail. She was just hung up on a log, a tree top of a tree," said Higgs.
http://www.cbs46.com/story/25545868/fisherman-speaks-out-after-finding-body-of-89-year-old-woman

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/18/missing-georgia-wife-beheaded-man/9255485/

I'm freaking out a bit after seeing those trees. He means snagged, yes? Please.

It is sounding like the body was placed in an area and in a way to make sure it WAS found. God this is just getting more bizarre. Both bodies appear to be purposely staged in horrific ways that would be incredibly disturbing to find.

So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

 

[Treelights]

http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GAEA&report=30

"Date Max.
Temp.
(°F) Min.
Temp.
(°F) R.H.
(%) 2 inch
Soil
Temp.
(°F) 4 inch
Soil
Temp.
(°F) 8 inch
Soil
Temp.
(°F) Wind
Speed
(mph) Total
Radiation
(MJ/m2) Rain
(in) ET
(in)"


Quote May 1 67.8 50.3 76.2 66.8 66.7 66.5 3.6 19.86 0.00 0.15
May 2 72.4 47.6 73.4 65.6 65.4 65.3 1.9 24.61 0.00 0.17
May 3 75.9 45.0 62.1 66.4 66.1 65.6 3.5 30.68 0.00 0.22 unquote

This graph states 0.00 rain (in.) for Eatonton from May 1 through May 3rd.

http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GAEA&report=hi

"Historical Data" Max Temp F, Min. Temp F, Rain (in.)
"May 1, 2014 67.8 50.2 0.00
May 2, 2014 72.3 47.7 0.00
May 3, 2014 75.9 45.0 0.00"

This is for Eatonton, Georgia above.

http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GAEA&report=sm
"May 2, 2014 Eastern Daylight Time
Sunrise Time 06:44 AM
Sunset Time 8:17 PM"

http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GAEA&report=sm
"May 3, 2014 Eastern Daylight Time
Sunrise Time 06:44 AM
Sunset Time 8:18 PM"


"Rainfall Calculator
From Jan-1 To May-19 Total Precipitation
[in] Number of
Rainy Days
2014 2014 20.88 47"
http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GAEA&report=rf

 

[ClaireNC]

Respectfully snipped by me
I think LE are getting better about investigating credit card fraud. Recently we received a call from our bank's security asking if we tried to make an online purchase for a smart phone ($600) to be delivered to a Wal-Mart in North Dallas. Of course, no we had not and immediately went our online banking account and could see the pending $600 charge. I then called our local and explained that there was a $600 purchase pending that we did not make. At first the teller told me that if the purchase was used using the 3 digit security code we had no recourse and we would be responsible for the $600. I told her we would be contacting law enforcement to file a report. We called and were able to talk to investigator. He came to our house within the hour and we filled out a report. Interestingly, within aboout 10 minutes of telling the teller we were contacting LE, she called us back and said we would not be responsible for the $600 charge. The detective did follow-up on the case and contacted LE in the area of where the smart phone was to be delivered. We were contacted by the detective in North Dallas and the local detective also followed upon by contacting us a week or so later to see if any more suspicious charges had shown up on our cards. Local LE impressed me that they are taking credit card fraud seriously. It wasn't long after that that 2 people from Mexico were arrested in Texas with hundreds of cloned credit cards. I am grateful these 2 thiefs were caught, but frustrating that there are still many more people out there waiting to prey on innocent people.

Glad you had a good experience. It is very unusual for LE to track down identity thieves or people stealing credit cards. Yes the banks and credit card companies are doing a good job of blocking fraudulent charges, but in general it is beyond the abilities of LE. I am not going to argue the point with you. The statistics are readily available. I still don't think it has anything to do with the murders.

 

[Bootsctr]

Its called high tech pick pocketing. Radio frequency identification...... Sorry I am so lame and don't know how to link on this darn tablet!.......basically, for 10$ you can buy a scanner online, walk up behind someone in line somewhere and scan their CC through their back pocket.

Google "high tech pickpocketing"........ Its scary......happened to my BF is how I know.....men especially need to be aware since they tend to put their wallets in their back pocket.
In my bf's case it was on a cc he never uses....we live in Ma...and the charges on it were from NJ.

This is what the detective told us is likely how our card # was stolen. The device can read your card in your wallet or purse. There is a special device that can be bought at Wal-Mart to put in your wallet or purse that will present the device from reading your card. The detective also told us that if you wrap your cards in aluminum foil and that will also defect the device from reading your card.

 

[Carolinapeach]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo





So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

This is exactly why I was freaked after seeing those trees and recalling the of the reaction of the fishermen and the mood of the sheriff when he arrived back to shore. It was too horrific for me to even put into words. My DH thinks she would have been discovered sooner, if so. I hope this is not what they found but I do wonder. Thank you for the pic, Dr.Watson.

 

[Zuri]

Dr. Watson, I didn't want to quote the pic as the margins are blown, but I think you are on to something. She may have been found in an upright position. I apologize for the gruesomeness to follow.

A deceased person that has been in the water for two weeks, especially when COD is blunt force trauma to the head, is going to look horrific. Especially with fish feeding on it. She may have been missing certain facial features including eyes and lips, tip of nose etc. The bloating of the body increases body mass tremendously. IMO

 

[Treelights]

Dr. Watson, I didn't want to quote the pic as the margins are blown, but I think you are on to something. She may have been found in an upright position. I apologize for the gruesomeness to follow.

A deceased person that has been in the water for two weeks, especially when COD is blunt force trauma to the head, is going to look horrific. Especially with fish feeding on it. She may have been missing certain facial features including eyes and lips, tip of nose etc. The bloating of the body increases body mass tremendously. IMO

In this article :
"Friday when the fishermen spotted Shirley Dermond’s body, it was face down about three miles northwest of the Wallace Dam."
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

 

[steelman]

I know that we've probably already hashed this into the ground, but I couldn't stop thinking about this aspect of the case last night - I think it's a very important clue as to whether or not SD was placed in a way to be found, or placed to stay underwater and hopefully never be located... jmo





So after it's been percolating through my brain overnight, and with a couple of new posts about the placement, along with how upset and disturbed the fishermen were - I remembered seeing this and started looking for the video that Carolinapeach had posted earlier - I wanted to see what you all thought about it...

In one of the interviews with the fishermen, one of them refers to seeing something that they describe as "maybe a buoy" but then as they got closer, realized it wasn't and called 911... Take a look at this still image that I pulled from the WSB video where Elliot says this is the location where she was found - see the buoy? It's sitting upright and tall in the water, right? If she was laying down in the water and just floating, would they have said they thought it was a buoy?? I'm sorry this is so graphic and gruesome, but I'm now beginning to think she WAS tied to one of these trees and was placed upright so that she would definitely be FOUND:



This is all JMO.

Included here is the site map showing where the Dermonds lived and where Shirley was found. I think when they talk about her being "placed" there, it is in regards to the location. They might have said she was "dumped" there and it would have the same meaning. My guess would be that the perp was getting close to the location where he planned on exiting the lake. You can see by all the twist and turns along that waterway that it would have been almost impossible for her body to have just drifted along for over 5 miles without being sighted or snagged on something along the way.

The only question for me is whether he was planning on taking her out of there alive, or if the 5 mile long boat ride in the dark was just part of the terror factor. My thought is that he was going to exit with her, but she got to yelling and hollering and making a bunch of noise, or at least trying to, fighting back for the most part. We have no idea how many close calls there were during that trip, or if some neighbors actually looked towards the lake from their backyards or dock area when they heard strange sounds.

Hopefully she fought like a banshee rooster and put some scars on this guy in the process. I'm sure he had her tied or handcuffed and hooded, coward that he is.

 

[Dr.Watson]

So is anyone else also thinking that maybe now she wasn't killed until later? Since no one found her sooner? God I hope not, I just can't believe someone would do that to this poor elderly woman. I'm praying that she went the same time as her husband, and maybe they just didn't place her body until later...

 

[MotherOcean]

That is one way I am sure it can be done, but most of my purchases are online from home. I honestly think it is an employee that is processing the order or works in the billing office. And I feel like it is a large business e.g. Amazon, QVC, etc. I just try and stay on top of my bank statement. It helps since charges are pretty much posted immediately. thanks for your input I appreciate it. Every bit of knowledge helps. jmo

I went to pay my mortgage payment one morning and found that my checking account had been completely emptied. Whoever used my card numbers had made an $1800 purchase from QVC and had the items shipped to an address in New York City. I live no where near NYC! I think the numbers were obtained by a waiter or waitress and sold to a third party.

 

[Dr.Watson]

In this article :
"Friday when the fishermen spotted Shirley Dermond’s body, it was face down about three miles northwest of the Wallace Dam."
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

Ok thanks Treelights, I hadn't seen that anywhere... if so then that makes me feel a bit better (less horrified!)

 

[steelman]

This is what the detective told us is likely how our card # was stolen. The device can read your card in your wallet or purse. There is a special device that can be bought at Wal-Mart to put in your wallet or purse that will present the device from reading your card. The detective also told us that if you wrap your cards in aluminum foil and that will also defect the device from reading your card.

It was stated in the article that that the credit card transaction was used to purchase something online from Amazon. Now, I'm no detective or anything, but if you buy something from Amazon and have it shipped to your house, just how much "investigating" is required to obtain the shipping address of the person who made the purchase ??

Seems pretty easy to me. Then again, I'm not a trained detective. (maybe I should be)

 

[Treelights]

Ok thanks Treelights, I hadn't seen that anywhere... if so then that makes me feel a bit better (less horrified!)

Thing is, she could possibly have been tied upright somewhat, but her head was slumped down in the water, so you could be right about being upright.... It is sad and challenging to vision....Horrific!
IMOO.