GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

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I don't think the group did this but I do think that the type of rhetoric that York's followers are exposed to can result in an individual becoming so warped in his or her thinking that a crime of this nature could be conceived and carried out without remorse.

Whoever did this has a mind that doesn't work the way that ours do. This crime makes perfect sense to whoever did it!

BBM

ITA with what I bolded. The perp(s)
who did this doesn't have normal thought processess, IMO. I still lean towards a psycho/sexual/sadistic predator who might have been under the influence of meth.
But that is jmo from following crimes and working in the prison system for 20+ years. Is my opinion any valid than other FMs?? Not at all.
 
How many drownings are normal on this lake per summer? The season is just starting and it is too coincidental that two unusual drownings have already occurred? The realtor, fully dressed with purse and cell phone on dock, was rapidly explained away as illness. Assuming the family did not want a big to do over it. However, as a realtor, had she shown the house next door that is for sale and saw something prior to the murders?

The boater that just drowned, did he have any connection to real estate, the D's, their church, golf? He was fishing in his boat, his boat hit the dock, and he fell out and drowned? Was he ill, sober, why would he fall out?

These drownings ought to make one go awhh, wait a minute. Hope they are being fully investigated. The realtor peeked my interest , however, this second drowning has me worried! Too many accidental drownings in too short of a time frame! IMO

The story about the realtor is that she had a seizure and drown. I haven't looked it up, but that is what the "talk around town" was.
 
BBM

ITA with what I bolded. The perp(s)
who did this doesn't have normal thought processess, IMO. I still lean towards a psycho/sexual/sadistic predator who might have been under the influence of meth.
But that is jmo from following crimes and working in the prison system for 20+ years. Is my opinion any valid than other FMs?? Not at all.

BBM

I agree with you. I haven't thought much about a meth connection, but I do believe the perp. is a sociopathic predator. I believe he lives, possibly part-time, on or very near the lake. I think he was a familiar stranger to the Dermonds.
 
Morning Bootsie!

Yes, that is one of the reasons I love WS, among many other reasons, is everyone has a right to state their own theory.

Just because some do not agree with the cult theory never means we think those posters don't have a right to their own opinion. A lot of people don't agree with my opinion about this case either but that does not upset me and I don't ever take it personally. Each of us has the theory we do based on our own thought processes and what makes the most sense to each of us.

And I say this respectfully, "I" just don't see any evidence that these are cult connected killings.

Why would buying land at GW in 1994 be significant? The group weren't at GW buying land, correct? They (Dermonds) didn't even build until 1999 iirc. Don't you think Sills would know by now if Michael's murderer had any ties whatsoever to the NC? He has discounted that this had anything to do with S&Rs murder. He has reasons for ruling that out, imo.

And why take the head of Russ? Wouldn't they want to leave the head there like others do who leave messages? With the torso in one place and the head cutoff and laying away from the corpse for the shock value? I could understand I suppose if the head was taken to be mailed later on to Sills or the children. But we are going into a month now and the head has not been found, sent or located.

Tomkat iirc said the NC had murdered others before. I haven't read all the material on the NC but if so, how were they murdered? Is it the same pattern in S&Rs murder?

And why go to all the trouble of disposing Shirely's body out in deep water? Wouldn't they want Sills to know immediately that two vulnerable people had been murdered in his county?

I asked this before but I don't think it was ever answered but has any cult or even imprisoned inmates murdered someone not even connected to them to get revenge on a Sheriff that helped put them in prison? And really it was the DA who saw to it he was imprisoned. And why wait over a decade to even do it. The Dermonds have lived there for many many years.

To consider the NC angle we have to disregard everything the lead police investigating agency has told us. He said very early on that he had evidence supporting that this murderer has some type of familiarity with the victims themselves. We would have to believe that the very man that brought down the NC, and probably knows them better than anyone, isn't smart enough to figure this out, even with 40 years of law enforcement experience.

Imo, when a murderer takes the head with him and tries to hide a body in a deep body of water they are desperately trying to hide evidence to protect themselves from being detected.

Imo, only those who know they can be directly linked to the victims personally takes the time and effort to do that. I just don't see that being done by any group no matter who they are ( cult, hit man, cartel etc.) that has no affiliation at all with the murdered victims personally.

But this only my opinion and nothing more.

IMO

I know, Blue, you don't agree that Sills is laying out more information than he really knows. I also respect that you are on board with more than one theory and won't be too critical, maybe a little, haha!, of a counter theory. I do think Sills is talking too much and possibly being a bit misleading to the press on the type of individual who did this. I am not saying he isn't a great guy with an impressive record, but the likelihood of this crime being solved diminishes every day. I also think the only possibility of a solution will rely on purely on the crime technicians' work: fingerprints, tracks, DNA, etc.
 
If the Dermonds had a trust, and it sounds as though they did by the gifting of the land, then their estate won't be subject to probate.

The trust usually spells out exactly the chain of ownership of the trust such as if RD dies, the whole of the trust falls to SD and the other way around. If and when both RD and SD are gone, the trust most likely would be evenly distributed between their children, grandchildren, or donated to charity.

If I'm not mistaken, there are probably 2 Trusts. One in her name and one in his.
That way they keep the assets divided and inheritance tax less? Not sure about this.
 
can any of you spell money laundering. Yes, it's Saturday night after my wine quota. Otherwise, I would have stifled myself, Edith.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...that wouldn't be offering an opinion would it? :silenced: :angel:

I've always wondered what I'd do if I came into some money. I mean, where wpuld I hide it? So I googled "money laundering". Wow. Very interesting. But I think I'd just hide it in my
mattress afterall. :giggle:
 
Tsk, tsk, tsk...that wouldn't be offering an opinion would it? :silenced: :angel:

I've always wondered what I'd do if I came into some money. I mean, where wpuld I hide it? So I googled "money laundering". Wow. Very interesting. But I think I'd just hide it in my
mattress afterall. :giggle:

Absolutely and I already regret it.
 
Actually, that could be the true elephant in the room.:scared:
 
I GOTCHA cherrybomb!! I keep saying, "someone wanted them dead" and I think like you, whoever was, didnt' want to wait

This has been my gut feeling since I got lured into this case. Who the hell kills grandparents who are almost 90 years old? And removes the head of the patriarch???
 
THANK YOU THANK YOU MOTHEROCEAN!

So in all that, you'd say these beasts are...... "quite capable" in regards to the Dermonds??

Not that they did, BUT Capable?

BBM

Yes, he is! And so are some of his followers. I don't have time right now to share all I would like but YES, they hate Sills. It's a good thing he is locked up. I would not underestimate York nor the length to which his disciples would go.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/latest/lat_704061.shtml

The FBI gave Russell copies of the notarized fake documents on Dec. 10, after it got them from officials at the so-called supermax federal prison in Florence, Colo.
York is housed there with the nation's highest risk prisoners, including Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski, Olympic Centennial Park bomber Eric Rudolph and Ramzi Yousef, who helped plan the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
York's followers also gave fake documents to the staff judge advocate at Fort Carson in Colorado, officials said.
Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills, who began the investigation into reported child abuse at the Nuwaubian compound near Eatonton in 2002, chuckled at the latest twist in the sect leader's bizarre history.
"It just never stops," he said.
Sills has been sued more than a dozen times by Nuwaubians, and one sect member even placed a fake lien on property the sheriff owns.


This man is very dangerous. I am not saying he has anything to do with the Dermonds' murders. But, some of the objections that I have read here about the very idea of the Nawaubians' *potential* to commit just such a crime as this are easily cleared up. First, he still has followers. He supposedly has authored books from prison. His followers think he is GOD!! They think white people are devils and white people who are in political positions are the most hated devils of all. He has called for the murders of whites based on his authority as a divine manifestation of "Light." And their hate towards Sills is of course even deeper because they believe he personally wronged York. There are MANY articles on-line that document that the Nawaubians think they are supposed to vindicate York.

He is first and foremost a Black Supremacist. His many, many personas (lots of name changes, frequent revisions of his personal narrative/history, many evolving versions of what he supposedly believes) are just ways to manipulate others and serve to camouflage what he is really preaching and that is the doctrines of the Nation of Islam.

The Nawaubians are listed as one of the groups in the article below:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_supremacy

The belief in sacrificial killing and ritualistic murder was part of the early Nation of Islam doctrine. Fard thought explicitly that it was the duty for every Muslim to offer as sacrifice four "Caucasian devils".[2] A portion of Fard's lesson reads as follows:

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan later argued that the lessons about murdering devils was only a metaphor designed to "rally NOI members to 'slay whites' psychological and social grip on them"[4] but Fard's lessons on the murder of white people in at least one instance were taken literally and verbatim:

One afternoon in the early 1970s, when Ali K. Muslim, then Charles 41x, was guarding the temple, a man carrying a sack asked to meet a temple official. The man, thoroughly confused about Elijah Muhammad's teachings, believed that if he killed four white "devils" he would win a trip to the Holy Land. He had come to redeem his prizes. In the sack, Ali K. Muslim say
s, were four severed heads.[5]

York preaches the same doctrines and observes the same "holy" days, like the "Savior's Day" which is the day that Nawaubians celebrate York's birthday. Savior's Day did not originate with York. It originated with the Nation of Islam.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/nuwaubian-nation-of-moors

York’s prison sentence did not destroy the Nuwaubians, though they have diminished in numbers. When the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals considered York’s case on appeal in September 2005, two hundred Nuwaubian protesters demonstrated in Atlanta to show their support (that October, the court upheld York’s conviction). In 2009, Nuwaubians tried to get York out of jail by sending false documents to his maximum security prison. Some of the documents were stamped by notaries public, six of whom lived in Athens, Ga., where some Nuwaubians have relocated. Howard Sills, the sheriff responsible for York’s arrest, has also been harassed by the Nuwaubians. They have sued him more than 12 times and once placed a fake lien on his property.

On Aug. 26, 2009, 300 people congregated at a federal courthouse in Macon, GA, to support an appeal filed to get York out of jail. As of 2011, Nuwaubians still posted frequently on websites and online forums, defending York’s innocence and alleging that the government framed him.


I regret that I can't find a link to verify this right now but I have read that Sills has received death threats from Nawaubians in the past.

One more thing... why now?

The Nawaubians believe that we are right now at the very end of a 6,000 year period in which whites have been allowed to exist but at the end of the 6,000 there is supposed to be a time of earth cleansing that will rid the world of white people.

Not saying this has anything at all to do with this terrible crime against the Dermonds, just saying that the Nawaubians doctrine has a developed eschatology (the end times) that teaches that a change is RIGHT NOW beginning to occur during which time Nawaubians are to finally take back the earth AND vindicate York.

One more creepy thing is that York sure LOVES a sword!
http://nuwaubian.blogspot.com/p/dr-york-photos.html

Now, I am not saying I believe any of these cult members did this crime (how would they know the Dermonds?) but there is a lot here that would account for motive, the perps. psychological will to kill, timing, the possibility of multiple killers working together with the intent and dedication to guard their secret, potential for the out of state investigations that are being conducted.
 
A week is a long time for no word from Sills. My hope has been on the video that was sent off for Quantico to view. Just knew, felt it had the missing link!

Let's still hold out hope the video gave LE substantial evidence and LE has been working this week on matching the players to the tape. This could be a major job in itself!
 
This has been my gut feeling since I got lured into this case. Who the hell kills grandparents who are almost 90 years old? And removes the head of the patriarch???

And THAT is the million dollar question.

My parents passed when they were close to the D's age. I can't imagine the evil that would murder the elderly.
 
i have really made an effort to avoid offering opinions. Why would the nawaubian group give sills an opportunity to be a hero solving a high profile case? if one wanted to punish him, a totally different crime would be more effective .


this is my opinion. i know nothing

They might not think that way?? Not that it's them but.............we don't know, so we dont' know.............??
 
The story about the realtor is that she had a seizure and drown. I haven't looked it up, but that is what the "talk around town" was.

Thank you for this information! I am very sorry for her family. However, with the Dermond's murder just occurring, letting it be known what actually caused her drowning will put many minds to rest. Again, thank you.
 
Oh goodness, I'm sorry about that. I thought that might be confusing. I meant to point that out but forgot to do so by the time I got around to posting. I have been reading Nawaubian web sites for hours. I have a little personal experience with the effects of exposure to these cults that are focused on the mystery religion of ancient Egypt. Maybe that is why, even though I really don't think there is a cult connection to this case with the Dermonds, I can't dismiss the possibility all together. There is some very intense mind control that goes on in some of these groups.

If they liked Sills and had tea time with him, it wouldn't even be considered, I just know they are evil and killing an innocent to cause Sills some stress and confusion would make them happy, hell, KILLING makes them happy

I might add IDK WHO or WHY someone did this! Just looking at all the angles and co inkey dinks
 
can any of you spell money laundering. Yes, it's Saturday night after my wine quota. Otherwise, I would have stifled myself, Edith.

HMM, early on in this forum, no one would have believed it, Edith, you have a lot of believers NOW
 
Got to love Ray Stevens.

It's been a over a week since any updates or word from LE.........
What is the local talk on the D's case now?
Have any posters living near Putnam/Greene Cos, etc. noticed specific changes to business as usual?

Wondering if this period of silence is a tying up the loose ends with an arrest to come soon? .... or deciding what the heck to do next?

deciding what the helk to do next

Me and Edith had our quota tonight :floorlaugh:
 
Thanks for addressing the elephant in the room. I also highly doubt the group had anything to do with the Dermond's deaths. JMO

That being said, I still can't forget that the Dermond's son did state early on that he felt the deaths may be due to "a cult." And he stated also that he'd been receiving "strange phone calls." I'd be very curious to know the content o these phone calls. Perhaps there was something mentioned in these calls that very directly lead him to believe a "cult" was involved. There had to be an actual reason that the son would believe what he did........for you have to admit, it's pretty uncommon I would think for an adult child to suspect the brutal death of his elderly parents was due to a cult. Surely that's not something that most or very many of us would "suspect" if we were in this situation.

Also -- given the sheer hatred the Nuwaubians had for white folks, do we know whether either of the elderly Dermonds ever had some kind of run-in with any of them in the past..........maybe Mr D was confronted by one and he confronted them back and that person (or persons) has held a grudge ever since and for some reason "now" was the time to exact revenge in the most heinous of ways.

And yes, on the surface it doesn't make sense that cult leader, due to his hatred for Sills, would have orchestrated this tragedy.........if there was any chance that Sills would solve the case and be seen as a 'hero'..........but perhaps members of this bizarre cult carried out the murders in such a way and with such confidence that they'll never ever in a million years be caught, and as such, Sills will be tormented by his inability to solve the case and bring justice to Mr ad Mrs D.

Again --- the fact that the son felt very strongly from the start that the deaths were due to a cult, IMO, there is a very good reason - unbeknownst to us - that he came to such a conclusion. And why on earth would he receive strange calls after the deaths of his parents?..........that's just bizarre. Who calls up grieving family members (children) and says weird things?.............would just love love love to have an idea what was said in these calls though I guess we'll never know.
 
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