GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 5

[tomkat]

where the hell is steelman, the angry one, I am too now! haha

can't wait for forensics, I pray to God it can tell SOMETHING, probably gathered teh D's hair and fibers

grrrrr

 

[tomkat]

Does he have one (or both) of the murder weapon?

If he has fingerprints then I am assuming the fingerprints don't belong to a past convicted felon...or anyone who has a license to carry. In Georgia you have to submit to fingerprinting if you want a license to carry a pistol.

oh whatever, most criminals dont' register them do they?!!

 

[K.jill]

Am I the only one who believes the reward has very little to do with raising an actual reward and more to do with data collection? Sort of like Sills asking neighbors to fill out a questionnaire about the Dermonds but really collecting finger prints?!

I immediately thought it was very weird that they keep pushing the tax deductible angle. Sills said specifically that his office would provide the tax deduction paperwork and that it was the first time a reward had been set up like this. It got me to thinking, "Could the format allow LE or the IRS to gain more financial info than they are allowed otherwise?" Low and behold, look what I found on the FBI website about money laundering investigative tools:

While investigating money laundering and asset forfeiture cases, investigators have numerous sources of information at their disposal. Nine prove as particularly useful.36

1) Bank Secrecy Act reports: Financial institutions, including some casinos and merchants, must file currency transaction reports, foreign bank account reports, suspicious activity reports (SARs), and similar documents with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). These can help investigators connect laundered or concealed assets. SARs provide a tremendous source of intelligence, often actionable, and can help to proactively launch new investigations. They also assist investigations reactively by identifying accounts, no-show jobs, previously unknown associates, and many other valuable forms of information. SAR review teams exist around the country where multiple agencies examine the reports with prosecutors and choose viable targets. Financial institutions must provide the supporting documentation behind a SAR upon request from law enforcement. No subpoena is required.37

2) EGMONT: This network consists of the financial intelligence units of over 100 countries and permits law enforcement to request data in support of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. At a minimum, the information will include the requested country’s equivalent of SARs filed on the subjects of the request. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

3) Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty: A formal request for records or enforcement action by a foreign country is made through DOJ’s Office of International Affairs.38

4) FEDWIRE: The New York Federal Reserve Bank can search names, addresses, and account numbers for any fund transfers done through its system. Often, this will reveal previously unknown beneficiaries and accounts.39

5) Clearing House Interbank Payment Systems (CHIPS): A subpoena can be served
to search the CHIPS network, used by financial institutions to process wire transfers.40

6) Mail covers: A request through the U.S. Postal Inspection Service will provide the information featured on the outside of envelopes. Often, this will identify financial institutions the subjects of the investigation deal with, as well as shell corporations, virtual offices, and phone companies.



Seized Assets from Operation Malicious Mortgage
7) Tax returns: Through a court order obtained by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, the investigator can examine relevant tax returns, which often will yield the location of accounts, as well as front companies and shell corporations through which individuals launder money.41 Investigators or prosecutors working with a subject who is cooperating or proffering can request the individual to sign IRS Form 8821, which authorizes the release of the subject’s tax records without the need for a court order.


8) Patriot Act 314(a) search: This likely is the most important money laundering tool available. Investigators can request FinCEN to post on a secure Web site the names of any individuals or entities who are subjects of a significant money laundering or terrorist financing investigation. All U.S. financial institutions then must advise the inquiring investigator of any accounts in the names of the requested subjects along with contact information for service of a subpoena. This method is far superior to serving a subpoena on the credit
bureaus because the investigator will learn of all domestic accounts and not just those linked to some form of credit. No subpoena, prosecutor, or court involvement is needed, and law enforcement can make the request through FinCEN.

9) Correspondent bank accounts: Virtually all foreign banks maintain correspondent accounts, also known as interbank accounts, in the United States to conduct American dollar transactions on behalf of their customers. These simply are accounts opened at U.S. banks in the name of a foreign financial institution. Even without jurisdiction over a foreign bank, investigators can serve a grand jury subpoena and receive records of any checks or wire transfers that cleared through the U.S. correspondent account on behalf of the foreign bank.42 By learning the senders or beneficiaries of these transactions, the investigator can determine the likely beneficial owners of the foreign account, as well as other foreign and domestic accounts involved in the money laundering cycle. And, where forfeitable funds are traced to a financial institution in a country that will not cooperate with the United States, DOJ can authorize the use of Section 981(k), a Patriot Act provision, which permits the seizure from a U.S. correspondent account of a sum equivalent to the amount of criminal proceeds laundered to the foreign bank. The U.S. correspondent bank relinquishes the money and provides the foreign bank with the seizure warrant so that the foreign bank can recoup the amount seized from its correspondent account by taking the same sum from its account holder. The foreign bank usually is not complicit in the money laundering but is subject to the seizure based on its role in holding the money launderer’s funds overseas. The Section 981(k) seizure authority can often be obtained within a few weeks.


Essentially, with American bank account numbers, they can then access foreign records they would otherwise not have permission to, amongst other things.

I think the reward account is just a tool to gain financial information from someone they might suspect, someone they think will donate...

IMO the reward donation request is a tool for something more than raising money. If it is for data collection, and I can't think of another good reason, then they must be looking into someone who would be expected to donate. Maybe someone who makes large tax deductible donations every year? Someone from the same community as the Dermond's? Someone who has an equally evil partner in crime who helped?
I think these murders were planned in advance. But why????

 

[epiphany]

Does he have one (or both) of the murder weapon?

If he has fingerprints then I am assuming the fingerprints don't belong to a past convicted felon.

I don't think he has the murder weapons...he may have the tool/instrument that was used in the decapitation IF the decap was not part of the original plan and became necessary, so to speak.

Perhaps, whether planned or not, they left a tiny remnant/piece of whatever material/plastic was placed beneath the body before the heinous act was committed on his body.

 

[tomkat]

Wonder if they moved Mr D to the woods IF they removed his (speculation) firearm from him and shot him, and did the decapitation there. Perhaps, also found some forensics there...then perp/s moved his body back to the garage.

wasn't it reported he was found infront of the cars in the garage
I cant find it, that was the last thing I rmemerber becase I had never heard and started asking and looking to find that info

anyway, if so, they didnt' want them found, they were tyring to buy time to get away, for sure, they tried to cover up everything, if hoodlums, they hid his body in front of cars if he was murdered outside

took the head possibly to hide evidence, alot of work though and may have left dna or soemthing

then tried to hide her in the lake, she must've been tethered, but why the hell take her off, why not just leave her too, unless she ran outside towards the dock or the road

I wouldn't want to be in Sills shoes right now, if he had pride over the GBI thing, he isn't going to say he has NOTHING, he said we have leads we are following right now,
i was so excited, he sounded like he had hope and leads but if a hoodlum, IDK, we can only hope someone knows soemthing and will talk

ok, so they didnt' want to be caught, this is not organized crime big or small,

hoodlums are random looking for money or drugs

probably like someone said here, thought they might have a safe or money on them, old and easy targets

 

[Carolinapeach]

if not the garage, that makes more sense than them driving all over the roads back and forth, makes much sense, just wonder if people need to be on the lookout in the daytime, or late evening or after dark?!!

So they are thinking random now!??? hoodlums would be random, right, that means they are loose looking for their next kill

Ugh. Sooooo not what I want to think. :scared:

 

[tomkat]

If Mr D's head is missing & his COD was diagnosed by the ME as trauma to the head. How does Sheriff Sills know that two different murder weapons were used on the Dermonds? Gun powder residue?

Why didnt' he just SAY! grrrrrrrr

 

[tomkat]

Ugh. Sooooo not what I want to think. :scared:

right, me either ! So are you selling your shell of a house yet CP? I'm sorry, this must be a mess for ya'll, you need to be there often I'm sure!

we had planned to go this week, 2 of us, DIDN"T HAPPEN, I am constantly looking over my shoulder, out the window before going outside, keeping all outside lights on all night etc

so WHO would want them dead? Who would hire someone to kill them?

 

[tomkat]

I don't think he has the murder weapons...he may have the tool/instrument that was used in the decapitation IF the decap was not part of the original plan and became necessary, so to speak.

Perhaps, whether planned or not, they left a tiny remnant/piece of whatever material/plastic was placed beneath the body before the heinous act was committed on his body.

hmm, duct tape??? rags for cleaning up??? whatever LE found was probably where they got the hair and prints,

if the perp lost an earring, that'd be remarkable!

it's amazing what they can get from duct tape

 

[tlcya]

I am fascinated by the fact that Sills thinks there are two weapons.

1) Mr. D is found headless and the head is thought have been severed and wounds thereto are thought to be COD based on lack of trauma to the body which remained.

2) Mrs. D is found and her COD is BFT to the head and LE immediately reportedly begin searching for a crowbar or "whatever" was the weapon per reporters.

3) Now suddenly, all these weeks later we are told LE believes they are looking for two separate weapons. Why is unclear as Mr. D's head remains missing therefore COD is unable to be determined as far as we know.

So why suddenly this belief there were two weapons one used on each victim? Unless Sills is hanging his hat on the theory that the beheading was to coverup evidence such as a bullet/balistics (must have been small caliber IMO if so).

IMO it is a mistake to assume anything about the weapon or number of perps.

I still think one or two (tops) people could have done this. And I am not sold on two different weapons.

I think Sills is doing exactly what we are doing only he is making statements to teh press as he goes through the process so the contradictions we seem to be hearing from him are coming because as he is tracking a theory that is the one he discusses. Tomorrow we could hear a whole nother story from the shriff IMO because he could easily have a new theory he is mulling over by then.

JMO

 

[epiphany]

if not the garage, that makes more sense than them driving all over the roads back and forth, makes much sense, just wonder if people need to be on the lookout in the daytime, or late evening or after dark?!!

So they are thinking random now!??? hoodlums would be random, right, that means they are loose looking for their next kill

I don't believe they're thinking random, no. I dunno what "hoodlums" implies, if much of anything...that term isn't used where I'm from...haven't heard that in ages which is why I asked y'all!

I'll be shocked if random murders or work of a SK.

Does appear personal, planned, thought out, IMO.

I don't remember Sills' exact words, but prior to using the term "hoodlums," Sills did acknowledge that the perp/s were up there on the evil scale (paraphrasing): victims are elderly, more than one victim, decapitation of one victim, throwing the other victim, an elderly woman in a lake, etc. IOW, he was implying that the perp/s are psychopaths...but term "hoodlums" may not mean much.

 

[Carolinapeach]

right, me either ! So are you selling your shell of a house yet CP? I'm sorry, this must be a mess for ya'll, you need to be there often I'm sure!

we had planned to go this week, 2 of us, DIDN"T HAPPEN, I am constantly looking over my shoulder, out the window before going outside, keeping all outside lights on all night etc

so WHO would want them dead? Who would hire someone to kill them?

I changed my plans for the weekend because of this too. Dang it! I am fine during the daylight hours but at night...not so good. He calmed the fears of GW residents, don't you think? I want to hear what he said to them. We can't be the only ones?

 

[Rhyolite]

The 20 Thousand previously might be a separate entity, perhaps?

"After searches on land and water came up empty, the FBI announced it is offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to Dermond’s recovery."
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/decapitation-mystery-reward-offered-for-missing-ea/nfwqX/
IMOO.

Maybe the fishermen did collect on the $20K, if not, they may be fighting for it in court.

 

[tomkat]

Good research. I just can't imagine a hardened criminal would be so dumb to fall for that ploy. But then again, try anything once. But not twice, if there are no results.

why would the perpetrator donate to that? To not look guilty? But if he is a financial genious, he won't bite

So Sills could be using the "hoodlum" as a disguise, acting like he doesnt' have anything and hoping to get his hands on financial or bank info by raising reward money in the hopes the perp wont think he's onto him and so he donates and boom, they got all the info they need?............. he won't

BUT maybe that's why "they" didnt' set a up or offer a reward :wink:

 

[atthelake]

From FindLaw.com.
<snip>
- See more at: http://litigation.findlaw.com/going-to-court/what-is-a-subpoena.html#sthash.g3N1VHy4.dpuf"

I giggle at your WS name...and wonder how many folks *get* OTP! It took me a few days of seeing it to glean OTP! :seeya: from OTP also! OTP"the reptile that shall not be mentioned" here! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Go Gators....beat those Tarheels!!!!

 

[Cardinal47]

I changed my plans for the weekend because of this too. Dang it! I am fine during the daylight hours but at night...not so good. He calmed the fears of GW residents, don't you think? I want to hear what he said to them. We can't be the only ones?

I am so sorry. Yes nightfall would be the worst time from something like this.

Reading your post I am wondering if lots of community members and homeowners are also feeling unsafe and scared and are letting the sheriff know about it.

Especially after he went 8 days with nothing.

Not to mean he is not working his butt off but scared people react differently to crimes in their neighborhoods and I think this community wants the monster that killed the Dermonds exposed and arrested and safely behind bars so they can once again exhale!

MOO

 

[tomkat]

I changed my plans for the weekend because of this too. Dang it! I am fine during the daylight hours but at night...not so good. He calmed the fears of GW residents, don't you think? I want to hear what he said to them. We can't be the only ones?

APPARENTLY, or they know something we don't, hoodlums sounds like a loose canon! Makes you think of a serial killer in the making, if Sills wants to settle peoples nerves, don't go announcing "hoodlum", the opposite of what you have been saying, targeted, this latest announcement sounds like it's random

I hope he's not talking out of both sides of his mouth and really has a plan in regards to this reward money

yeah I'm not even fine during the day, VERY cautious, like I could do something haha but I put all kinds of traps on my doors when there :floorlaugh: they'd have plenty to murder me with if they got in! :floorlaugh: and past my rottweiler and doberman and pit pull, no alarm system required lol

so now some are thinking money launderin........ again...... back to square one, serial killer was the popular for a while I think, lol,

:rollercoaster::rollercoaster:

 

[tomkat]

IMO the reward donation request is a tool for something more than raising money. If it is for data collection, and I can't think of another good reason, then they must be looking into someone who would be expected to donate. Maybe someone who makes large tax deductible donations every year? Someone from the same community as the Dermond's? Someone who has an equally evil partner in crime who helped?
I think these murders were planned in advance. But why????

they knew something or screwed somebody over? No one would ever expect anything criminal from an 88 yr old................

 

[Cbm]

Maybe it's more about who doesn't donate that would be expected to donate....you know, like when Mrs D was missing and we couldn't figure out why the reward was only $20000...or maybe he's thinking that $20000 isn't enough to turn your meth head boyfriend in but $100,000 is worth it

 

[Hickory Born]

Just how many people who donate to rewards take it off their taxes? That is targeted to the mega money people. The average person who give a hundred dollars probably wouldn't list it on their taxes. I know I wouldn't.