GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[tlcya]

honestly, if confronted by press for statement about who might be responsible for beheading my elderly father, without any more information that the general public has at my disposal, I might venture a guess like psychopath, cult, etc.

I mean what kind of person or group beheads someone??? Particularly and elderly respected citizen?

Not worried too much about KD's use of the word cult in this situation.

He was throwing out wild crazy theories because who the heck beheads someone? Its a wild crazy crime that makes no sense. I would expect his theories to be wild and crazy to match the crime.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you to everyone responsible for the photos on the thread today (blown margins or not )

I've spent the last few minutes trying to enlarge and study the photo (thumbnail below) and it appears to me that there may be outside steps (stairs) from the yard to the second floor. Right side of house... upper part of photo. (Which would mean easy access to both floors from the outside).

Heck, maybe I'm seeing things and/or maybe this has been discussed. I spent the greater part of the afternoon head-down/feet-up enduring a root canal.

I see it too fred&edna! Can't say definitely, but it sure looks like it. Yikes! Mr. D in the garage or right outside the garage and moved only a few feet into the garage. Beheaded in the garage. Take Mrs. D out the back straight to the dock. Could have taken her straight from the bedroom. 'Course Sills said Mrs. D was wearing everyday clothes, but perhaps the perp made her change clothes. Just random thoughts and pure speculuation. :moo: I don't think you're seeing things because I see it too.

Hope you're feeling better from your root canal. My husband had one a few years ago. Upside-down/feet-up. I could have sworn that dentist was trying to take his head off. Not fun! Feel better today and please don't let your sockets dry out. :seeya:

 

[atthelake]

Keep in mind that the "quote" about the cult first appeared in a British tabloid. Is it possible that the tabloid journalist, in hopes of getting something sensational said something to the son like "Sounds so horrible, almost like a cult." and the son replies something like "gosh, that could be"?

Tabloid journalists don't get the highest marks for accuracy, and this may be a situation where we sleuths may need to question the accuracy of this "MSM" tabloid.

Respectfully, as I recall it was also reported by Channel 2 in Atlanta that did the phone call with the son where he replied that....

:back: :findinglink: :websleuther:


WSB Television Original Link Here Article May 16th

"Channel 2’s Richard Elliot spoke on the phone with the Dermond’s son....Dermond doesn’t believe someone specifically targeted his parents for this brutal crime. He believes it’s random, maybe the work of a cult. "

FWIW - WSB/channel 2 is one of the most respected news/journalistic stations in Atlanta

I do recognize that you are correct and that the Daily Mail article preceeded the WSB article by two days - and see your point in that perhaps it was "fed" to the son on the first interview, and the son merely repeated what he espoused on the second interview.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628521/Despairing-son-hopes-mother-dead-ease-suffering-week-vanished-husbands-headless-body-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html . Tabloidy perhaps, but a GOOD ARTICLE IMHO as to a summarization that the other outlets pared down substantially.

 

[gngr~snap]

My personal view on Mr. D being "moved" is that when LE first got to him, the lividity on his body did not line up with the position on which he was found.
For instance the lividity was on his back and buttocks indicating that he spent some time on his back, but he was on his right side when found.
That would suggest his body was moved. It could have been simply rolled over or transported across town. *I am not suggesting that he was transported anywhere, but it really does indicate Mr D spent some time in one position and the killer moved his body some time later. I don't know if he left and came back or was busy doing something else on the property and somehow moved Mr.D prior to leaving.
If I recall lividity begin at about 30 min and is set a few hours after death.
moo

All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

 

[Bootsctr]

I still hate it there are no leads to help solve the Dermonds' murders. I too still feel it was a lone perpetrator, or at least if anyone was with him, they were a follower, in so much as a a conditioned person to follow someone around for protection, or fear, or some weird version of a faerie tale story, or due to brain damage (thinking of those crimes where a male controls a female, where both are sick, I guess). It is unlikely to me that this crime involved three (or more) equally decisive and controlling personalities.

Anyway, the answer to most crimes is within a matter of miles, maybe less than three in this case. Transient murders are extraordinarily rare, unless of the serial killer variety (not that theory should be completely thrown out). How many weirdos in GA? Probably the same as most states, just need to look at those who live closer to the Dermonds. I don't mean a neighbor of the same economic background with as nice a house. If they came on boat, then look for weirdos in other places along the river.

:goodpost: With 2 people, as Sills has stated he believes, Mr. D wouldn't have to have been drug at all. Somebody to lift the head and somebody to lift the feet.

I keep posting he as the sex of the perp. If one, it could have been a very fit female, perhaps early 50's/55. The Dermonds were elderly. A mean-azz woman with a vendetta could have also committed this crime.

Again, I agree with you Jabarn. At this point, I think it could likely be 2. The leader and the follower. And definitely living somewhere on Lake Oconee. The perp dumped Mrs. D where there were no cameras.

 

[Bootsctr]

Forensic files on HLN highlighting 3 bodies thrown in Tampa Bay..and how they analyzed where put in water etc. FYI

Anything new learned from Forensic files? Dang! I like that show too. Missed it. :banghead: Swamp Murders last night. Always finding bodies in water on that show too.

 

[Litig8ter]

Respectfully, as I recall it was Channel 2 in Atlanta that did the phone call with the son where he replied that....

:back: :findinglink: :websleuther:


WSB Television Original Link Here Article May 16th

"Channel 2’s Richard Elliot spoke on the phone with the Dermond’s son....Dermond doesn’t believe someone specifically targeted his parents for this brutal crime. He believes it’s random, maybe the work of a cult. "

FWIW - WSB/channel 2 is one of the most respected news/journalistic stations in Atlanta

I do recognize that you are correct and that the Daily Mail article preceeded the WSB article by two days
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628521/Despairing-son-hopes-mother-dead-ease-suffering-week-vanished-husbands-headless-body-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html . Tabloidy perhaps, but a GOOD ARTICLE IMHO as to a summarization that the other outlets pared down substantially.

Here is the Daily Mail article I was referring to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html

It was dated May 14.

The WSB article is here: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

It is dated May 16.

Neither article actually quotes him on the cult angle, they both just say he said it.

I do place WSB journalistic standards high above the Daily Mail.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yay... it's not just me! Thanks!


Now, I'm also wondering if a walkway extends around to the garage?

No! Not just you! Obviously the drugs have worn off from your root canal and you can see clearly now. Thanks for posting and food for thought. I would tend to say yes it could extend to the garage for ease of walking around the home, but just my opinion. I would love to have a walkway all the way around my house. I do, however, have trails. Dog trails. She walks the same routes all the time. Chickens walk in her trails. I walk in her trails. No sticker burrs either. She checks my pants and picks all the stickers out when we come in the house.

 

[atthelake]

Here is the Daily Mail article I was referring to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html

It was dated May 14.

The WSB article is here: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

It is dated May 16.

Neither article actually quotes him on the cult angle, they both just say he said it.

I do place WSB journalistic standards high above the Daily Mail.

Agree,same links and that's what I said in my post. So guess we are on the same page, just saying it a little differently. :seeya:

 

[Nuvolari]

Shall we assume the toxicology reports were negative for both victims?

The "tissue samples" newspaper quote was indirect and as such, is unconfirmed according to the source. Has the sheriff found nothing to link the crime scene to the killer?

How can the sheriff know the Dermond's opened the door to let the killer in?

What local contacts did Mr. Dermond have locally? What were his activities besides walking?

If no blood spatter was found in the garage and considering that even if any blood anywhere was cleaned, even with bleach, luminol would still "see" it or at least that cleaning was done, and does that prove it's likely the only blood at the scene was from the decapitation done after death?

Why would the killer need to "buy time"? Does taking time to manage the head removal seem to indicate a lack of time concerns? Why would the killer even consider taking Mrs. Dermond from the scene if there wasn't a compelling reason? How could any of that reduce the killer's chance of being found out if Mrs. Dermond's body and Mr. Dermond's head wouldn't yield linking evidence? If the killer had used some obviously personal weapon, wouldn't it be easier to transport and destroy the weapon rather than deal with all the risky things that were done? Even if the weapon was found and it was an ordinary club of some common type, if it couldn't be linked to the killer, how would it be incriminating?

If the Dermond's were targeted, which one was the primary target?

If a boat was used, why would the killer go to the intended victim's own dock? The "lake wall" is also a "dock" and the end of the cove offers more cover than the Dermond dock. Would it be easier to move a corpse to a boat if the sloping ground nearby was less visible and more "slippery"?

If the killer was willing to take the incredible risk of removing one body from the scene, why wouldn't he/she take both? The Dermond's would have just "disappeared".

 

[Bootsctr]

View attachment 44201


This them?

Yep. That's them! You're the cat's meow tomkat! :cat:

 

[atthelake]

I think I"ll move to switzerland, aren't they the ones that impede such large and stiff fines, I think their $1000 speeding tickets or such, might make someone obey the law

ANd every citizen is required to carry a gun??

Every homeowner in Kennesaw Georgia (Atlanta suburb) and now Nelson Georgia is also required by law to have a gun.

An interesting article FWIW to those who are interested: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/14995-georgia-town-requires-every-homeowner-to-own-a-gun

 

[Bootsctr]

:moo::moo::moo:The ORIGINAL article that stated "drug a few feet" is in this article http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/05/06/putnam-county-possible-abduction/8785443/ and the accompanying video doesn't have the quote in it. Just the article itself uses these words.

IMHO, ALL THE OTHER references (the lakeside paper, the patch papers, the other forums that folks are linking) are all merely requoting the 11 alive original article.

Just for clarification as others stating where is rumor/original/msms coming from on different stuff we discuss.

HTH

Thank you ATL! Okay. This article you reference was last edited May 8, 2014 at 7:15 p.m. So, you are saying the wording was changed from "drug a few feet" to what the article is now quoted saying as "he had been moved a few feet and his head had been removed" ?

Sills says police have examined the backgrounds of family members and everyone who may have had contact with the couple over the last week, even the mailman. The Dermonds had no major health issues, no sign of any mental illness, and had been expected to go to a derby party over the weekend. When they didn't show friends gave it a couple of days and on Tuesday morning at 10 AM they went to the house and discovered Mr. Dermond's body in the garage. He had been moved a few feet and his head had been removed. Shirley Dermond was nowhere to be found.

In my opinion <------- the lack of drag marks would automatically rule Shirley out as the killer or rule in there were at least 2 killers which at that point with Shirley still being missing she could have been one of the 2 killers - - which we now know she was NOT a killer, but an innocent victim. Still doesn't tell me how LE knew he was moved. It had to be blood evidence from right outside the garage which is where LE vehicles were focused in the pictures. Why didn't anyone see that when they went to check on the Dermonds? Not a lot of blood. Neighbors didn't even notice it. I don't know.

Also from the same article - this neighbor didn't notice the commotion at the Dermond's house until Wednesday.

*advertiser censored* XXXXXXX has lived on the same street as the Dermonds for 11 years. While he didn't know them very well, he said "they were very, very nice. ... They were quiet people ... Russell walked a lot." XXXXXXX, who lives two doors down from the couple, said he noticed police tape on the Dermonds' home Wednesday morning. "It shocked me," he said. "Everyone is in a state of shock, especially for Shirley."

Oy! :facepalm:

 

[OTPTarheel]

Shall we assume the toxicology reports were negative for both victims?

The "tissue samples" newspaper quote was indirect and as such, is unconfirmed according to the source. Has the sheriff found nothing to link the crime scene to the killer?

How can the sheriff know the Dermond's opened the door to let the killer in?

What local contacts did Mr. Dermond have locally? What were his activities besides walking?

If no blood spatter was found in the garage and considering that even if any blood anywhere was cleaned, even with bleach, luminol would still "see" it or at least that cleaning was done, and does that prove it's likely the only blood at the
scene was from the decapitation done after death?

Why would the killer need to "buy time"? Does taking time to manage the head removal seem to indicate a lack of time concerns? Why would the killer even consider taking Mrs. Dermond from the scene if there wasn't a compelling reason? How could any of that reduce the killer's chance of being found out if Mrs. Dermond's body and Mr. Dermond's head wouldn't yield linking evidence? If the killer had used some obviously personal weapon, wouldn't it be easier to transport and destroy the weapon rather than deal with all the risky things that were done? Even if the weapon was found and it was an ordinary club of some common type, if it couldn't be linked to the killer, how would it be incriminating?

If the Dermond's were targeted, which one was the primary target?

If a boat was used, why would the killer go to the intended victim's own dock? The "lake wall" is also a "dock" and the end of the cove offers more cover than the Dermond dock. Would it be easier to move a corpse to a boat if the sloping ground nearby was less visible and more "slippery"?

If the killer was willing to take the incredible risk of removing one body from the scene, why wouldn't he/she take both? The Dermond's would have just "disappeared".

What if the Ds were religious about setting their alarm, as their son indicated, and disarmed the system and it was never armed again? Records subpoenaed from the alarm company would show a pattern of usage. And would pinpoint when and from what keypad it was disarmed.

 

[Treelights]

Here is the Daily Mail article I was referring to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dy-1m-home-Georgia-murder-mystery-horror.html

It was dated May 14.

The WSB article is here: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/son-putnam-victims-blames-cult-moms-disappearance/nfyJ2/

It is dated May 16.

Neither article actually quotes him on the cult angle, they both just say he said it.

I do place WSB journalistic standards high above the Daily Mail.

This article Specifically Quoted their son:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...n-mystery-security-camera-wasnt-son-tells-ajc
QUOTE:“They were so well-liked. And he hasn’t been in business for 20 years. You can’t help wondering if it was cult-related or something like that,” Keith Dermond said. “Or maybe even a case of mistaken identity.” UNQUOTE.

 

[Litig8ter]

Thank you ATL! Okay. This article you reference was last edited May 8, 2014 at 7:15 p.m. So, you are saying the wording was changed from "drug a few feet" to what the article is now quoted saying as "he had been moved a few feet and his head had been removed" ?

Is this somewhat reminiscent of the early days of the Holly Bobo situation? Initial reports were that she was dragged into the woods, and then that changed to "was led."

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanks for posting the videos again. NOW I see where people speculated on Mrs. D being weighed down. So here are my questions and thoughts (which may have already been asked and answered ad nauseum)...

1. If I had a deceased body on my boat and I rolled the body out of the boat and into the water, would it sink right away without being weighed down?

If so, then the killer(s) could have, out of sheer ignorance, thought what was rolled into the water would stay in the water. Hence Sills saying they may not have expected her body to rise to the surface. No weights, just ignorance.

2. Didn't we establish that there are trees/large vegetation in the lake?

My thought on this is that Mrs. D was NOT weighed down but merely floated down the lake as she floated to the surface and got tangled in the lake trees.

IDK, I just don't give enough credit to the killer(s) to be very sophisticated. I don't think it was very well thought out. I believe Mrs. D witnessed the murder of her husband, was killed and then dragged (possibly on a tarp or something) into the boat and rolled off into the water. Killer(s) not realizing that she would eventually surface. The delay in surfacing (I feel) has more to do with the vegetation than being weighed down.

As for Mr.D, I feel like his decapitation was an afterthought, to hide the evidence OR just for "fun". I think anyone who has done any hunting and has gutted a deer or cleaned a fish probably had the proper type of knife to do the job.

**All speculation and opinions**

With regards to question #1, I would say we probably don't have a dumber than dirt person who committed this crime, but that by all means doesn't mean they did not know that the body would not sink to the bottom of the lake immediately. Just brings to mind the case of Thomas Capano who murdered scheduling secretary Anne Marie Fahey. He murdered Anne Marie and put her body in a cooler to dump in the Atlantic ocean. Uhmmmmm! Didn't he know a cooler made with Styrofoam isn't going to sink? Guess he wasn't nearly as smart as he thought he was (former lawyer and Delaware deputy attorney general). Her body was never found though.

Prosecutors alleged that Capano murdered Fahey at the house he rented and, with the assistance of his brother, Gerry, dumped her body in the Atlantic Ocean. Gerry Capano owned a boat and, when it was sold, its two anchors were missing. On November 8, 1997, Gerry was interviewed by detectives and told them that Thomas had borrowed the boat and admitted that he had murdered someone who was attempting to extort him. They went to Stone Harbor, New Jersey, with a large cooler that contained Fahey's body[citation needed], sailed 62 miles (100 km) out to sea, and pushed the cooler overboard. Gerry told police that Thomas shot the cooler in order to sink it, but that the cooler remained afloat in the water. Thomas then retrieved the cooler, took the body out, and wrapped the anchor chains around it. Thomas also asked Gerry to help dispose of a blood-stained sofa and carpet into a dumpster, which was managed by a third brother, Louis. Thomas ordered Louis to empty the dumpsters outside of their regular schedule. The empty cooler was found on July 4, 1996, by a local fisherman.[5]

Thomas Capano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And there was the nurse, Melanie McGuire who killed her husband and dismembered him and put him in three separate suitcases. They all floated. They got her with gun ballistics too. She shot him with a .38 and "unusual wadcutter bullets."

In April 2004, Melanie McGuire and her husband Bill had been married for five years. She was a nurse at a fertility clinic and he was a computer programmer. The two were raising two sons in a Woodbridge, New Jersey apartment. That month however, the couple planned to move to a larger home in Warren County. Melanie and Bill closed on their new house on April 28, 2004, but never moved in. That night, Melanie drugged her husband, shot him twice to death, and then dismembered his body. Melanie later put his dismembered remains into three matching suitcases, which were later found in the Chesapeake Bay. The day after Bill's murder, Melanie started covering her tracks. She began establishing an alibi, claiming after a domestic argument, her husband slapped her with an open hand in their bathroom, stuffed a dryer sheet in her mouth, and stormed off. On April 30, 2004, Bill's 2002 Nissan Maxima was found outside the Flamingo Hotel in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Five days later, the first suitcase containing Bill's remains was found near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. A murder investigation was launched.[2]

Melanie McGuire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indeed, I do agree that Mrs. Dermond could have been missed on her first rise and the fisherman found her on her second rise to the surface. Just hoping that by being "placed" where she was found that meant she was weighted down and LE found what was used as the weight and thus more "physical evidence."

Still pondering on #2.

 

[Bootsctr]

Every homeowner in Kennesaw Georgia (Atlanta suburb) and now Nelson Georgia is also required by law to have a gun.

An interesting article FWIW to those who are interested: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/14995-georgia-town-requires-every-homeowner-to-own-a-gun

I am loving me some Georgia right now! :loveyou: Gotta a little crushing going on.

But something happened in Kennesaw that neither its residents nor the national press expected: Crime fell, precipitously, and has remained low ever since. Home burglaries dropped from 65 the year before the Kennesaw ordinance was passed to 26 the year after, and down to 11 the year after that. Overall crime in Kennesaw dropped more than 50 percent between 1982 and 2005. In 2008, Kennesaw, home now to more than 35,000 people, experienced just 31 violent crimes, compared to other similar-sized towns nearby without the law, such as Dalton (127) and Hinesville (188). Craig Graydon, a police lieutenant in Kennesaw for 24 years said, “Firearms are involved in less than 2 percent of the crime around here. If nothing else, the law draws a lot of attention to the importance of crime prevention.”

Even those who don’t comply with the law in Kennesaw — gun agnostics — are very happy with the law. John Grimm, who works part-time at a gift shop in town, told a reporter from Financial Times, “If someone is going to rob you, they don’t know if you have got a gun or not, so they’re likely to go somewhere else.”

God bless America! :loveyou:

 

[Bootsctr]

Is this somewhat reminiscent of the early days of the Holly Bobo situation? Initial reports were that she was dragged into the woods, and then that changed to "was led."

Yes. I followed Holly's case briefly. So sad it is turning out to be a nightmare. It was reported she was dragged and then it was changed to "was led" later.

 

[gngr~snap]

I am loving me some Georgia right now! :loveyou: Gotta a little crushing going on.



God bless America! :loveyou:

Check out the crime rates.
As far as rape and murder.
Robbery is about normal but that occurs when the homeowners are gone.
Criminals are smart enough not to test a homeowner in Kennesaw, assuming they are armed...

Also kook at the number of registered sec offenders. They tend to avoid living there too.


http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Kennesaw-Georgia.html

According to our research of Georgia and other state lists there*were 24 registered sex offenders*living in 30144 zip code*as of June 11, 2014.
The ratio of number of residents in zip code 30144 to the number of sex offenders is 2,030 to 1.
http://www.city-data.com/zips/30144.html
All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk