GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

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I am very comfortable with my opinion now that this was a done by an armed robber caught in the act while in Russ and Shirley's garage.

So I am back to thinking Russ's murder was spontaneous and that is why there was no struggle per Sills. It came out of the blue with no warning. I think a very heated verbal exchange/altercation was taking place between the soon to be killer and Russ. Russ may have told him to not move and he was going to call the cops and that is why the killer killed him right there.

Of course Shirley's murder was definitely premeditated. Imo, he thought of her as nothing more than collateral damage and looked at it as eliminating all witnesses, IMO. He would do whatever he felt necessary to avoid being caught.

So I do not believe Russ's murder was planned. I think when Russ caught him, most likely in his garage trying to steal something, he then killed him in a panic. I think he shot him in the head. I feel he knew the instant he was caught that all hell was going to break loose if S or R were given an opportunity to call the cops. Imo, Russ and Shirley both knew him, and not only knew him by sight, but knew him by name, and maybe even knew his family as well. IMO

He had to murder Shirley because she had seen him not only attempt to rob them, but she saw him murder her husband, and she could ID him too and he knew it.

Imo, he knew if anyone found out he was robbing elderly neighbors he could spend a very long time in prison even up to 25 years to life. And on top of that there is a law now that if violent crimes (armed robbery is considered a violent crime) are committed against anyone 65 years and older the suspect will do more time. I think it is 10 years that is tacked on, iirc.

Once the murders happened he then had to devote all of his time thinking of ways to dispose of Shirley and Russ to get rid of the evidence. Imo, he also did not want to take any items from their home after the murders. He was trying to distance any evidence involved knowing if found it could be tied back to him. So he takes nothing and tries to stage it to look like a hit and an abduction instead of a robbery.

He was quite clever by trying to stage it to look like a sterilized cold hit, but sometime murderers do not take in the big picture. I don't think he knows how investigations really work and are carried out.

He didn't take into consideration that the first people who would be closely looked at is all family members, and I don't think Sills has ever suspected any of them all along. He is in daily contact with them. He says they have been very cooperative, and quickly answers any questions he may have. So imo, the children have long been ruled out. And he did say yesterday that people have been ruled out, but he will never want to publicly rule anyone out by name. He wants to keep the murderer guessing.

Next they would then delve closely into the background and victimology of the victims themselves to see if they had enemies that would do something like this or if they had done something to someone else in their past or present to create such type of enemies. They would also look to see if their children had any enemies. They found nothing, imo. but a couple who had always lived a very clean life who seem to be very close to their children...... so no one had a reason to put a hit out on either of them in the first place.

So when the FBI profilers looked at what was done, how it was done, and to whom it was done to... they knew it wasn't the work of a hit man, but was committed by someone who was trying to protect their own identity from being known that knew the Dermonds on a personal basis even if casually.

FBI profilers and crime scene reconstructionist have devoted their entire lives studying the type of criminals that do these kind of crimes and the way they do them. That is why they get the huge bucks because they are able to look at the evidence clearly, weighing it all in totality, rather than getting bogged down in the weeds by what the killer wants them 'to believe or think.'

I do believe fully that Sills has identifying DNA whether it is hair, fibers, or even tissue samples, but what he does not have is a suspect to compare his DNA evidence to nor does he have this DNA profile anywhere in a data bank system.........He did tell Mark Winne he has evidence in his possession that will help him once the killer is IDd.

IMO
 
I don't know.... Even though we have one MSM link that flat-out states that Mr. D. was killed on May 2 (Friday) -- and even though Friday/Friday night/very early AM Saturday seems to be the prevailing thought here on WS, I have always had a feeling that most of this crime may have happened on Saturday, and much of it during the daytime. JMO, and I can't really explain why.

I'm with Backwoods.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 
Two Wisconsin boys, 13, charged with brutal hatchet slaying of great-grandmother to get change to buy pizza

Barbara J. Olson was bludgeoned with a hammer and hatchet before being robbed of her spare change, police said. Her great-grandson and his friend are accused of carrying out the crime then going out for pizza.

BY Victoria Cavaliere /

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS /


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...nge-buy-pizza-article-1.1165410#ixzz34eg82mRz
 
Ocean Blue Eyes - we are on the same page and have been since early on. Thanks to you and Bootsctr for the support. People on facebook were so general, IMO. Not quite the true crime affecionadoes that we are, and I only mean that in a good sense. Wish I had rose-colored glasses but I think I've read too much by now. I love so many of my books but nothing keeps me awake like this, I just can't fathom how these minds think. However, today these young kids are living in a virtual reality. I think you were right about it just being one kid and yes, he lives right there. Nobody came in the night to this one little cove of this sweet older couple with a message or intention to kill. That's just me personally. I love all the thought provoking that goes on here, you guys are great. And if I have to eat crow pie, I'll have a slice with you, haha!
 
I cannot see a youth killing a grandmother/grandfather image, let alone beheading one of them.

Unfortunately I can envision it and have read many cases where it did indeed happen. However those teens usually lived with the parents or grandparents they murdered.

But I totally agree with you about this case though. Imo, it didn't happen to these grandparents. I think they were much loved, admired, and respected by all of their family members including their grands.

Teens and even those younger have done some of the most horrific homicides imaginable against either their parent(s) or siblings or both.

It seems today these different breed of youthful killers will kill someone in their family for the stupidest of reasons and never blink an eye. It always seems to be centered around something they wanted to do........something they did NOT want to do or something they weren't allowed to do. Its mind boggling actually, and they usually don't have one bit of emotions or remorse either.

I think right now some parents and grandparents who have some of these kids in their home raising them are locking their bedroom doors at night because they are afraid of being murdered by the very ones they have devoted their lives to.....

I truly think that narcissism is a lot to blame. Life to so many kids nowadays seems to be all about 'me, me, me' and nothing else. They seem to be more bonded to material things than they are to human beings.

I call these kind of youthful offenders 'flatliners.'

IMO
 
I think it is odd that their cellphones were in the house, but not used to call 911, if the theory is correct about perhaps Shirley witnessed Russell's murder or could ID the killer. In theory, was she too far away from the phone to call 911?
IMOO.
 
I am very comfortable with my opinion now that this was a done by an armed robber caught in the act while in Russ and Shirley's garage.

So I am back to thinking Russ's murder was spontaneous and that is why there was no struggle per Sills. It came out of the blue with no warning. I think a very heated verbal exchange/altercation was taking place between the soon to be killer and Russ. Russ may have told him to not move and he was going to call the cops and that is why the killer killed him right there.

Of course Shirley's murder was definitely premeditated. Imo, he thought of her as nothing more than collateral damage and looked at it as eliminating all witnesses, IMO. He would do whatever he felt necessary to avoid being caught.

So I do not believe Russ's murder was planned. I think when Russ caught him, most likely in his garage trying to steal something, he then killed him in a panic. I think he shot him in the head. I feel he knew the instant he was caught that all hell was going to break lose if S or R were given an opportunity to call the cops. Imo, Russ and Shirley both knew him, and not only knew him by sight, but knew him by name, and maybe even knew his family as well. IMO

He had to murder Shirley because she had seen him not only attempt to rob them, but she saw him murder her husband, and she could ID him too and he knew it.

Imo, he knew if anyone found out he was robbing elderly neighbors he could spend a very long time in prison even up to 25 years to life. And on top of that there is a law now that if violent crimes (armed robbery is considered a violent crime) are committed against anyone 65 years and older the suspect will do more time. I think it is 10 years that is tacked on, iirc.

Once the murders happened he then had to devote all of his time thinking of ways to dispose of Shirley and Russ to get rid of the evidence. Imo, he also did not want to take any items from their home after the murders. He was trying to distance any evidence involved knowing if found it could be tied back to him. So he takes nothing and tries to stage it to look like a hit and an abduction instead of a robbery.

He was quite clever by trying to stage it to look like a sterilized cold hit, but sometime murderers do not take in the big picture. I don't think he knows how investigations really work and are carried out.

He didn't take into consideration that the first people who would be closely looked at is all family members, and I don't think Sills has ever suspected any of them all along. He is in daily contact with them. He says they have been very cooperative, and quickly answers any questions he may have. So imo, the children have long been ruled out. And he did say yesterday that people have been ruled out, but he will never want to publicly rule anyone out by name. He wants to keep the murderer guessing.

Next they would then delve closely into the background and victimology of the victims themselves to see if they had enemies that would do something like this or if they had done something to someone else in their past or present to create such type of enemies. They would also look to see if their children had any enemies. They found nothing, imo. but a couple who had always lived a very clean life who seem to be very close to their children...... so no one had a reason to put a hit out on either of them in the first place.

So when the FBI profilers looked at what was done, how it was done, and to whom it was done to... they knew it wasn't the work of a hit man, but was committed by someone who was trying to protect their own identity from being known that knew the Dermonds on a personal basis even if casually.

FBI profilers and crime scene reconstructionist have devoted their entire lives studying the type of criminals that do these kind of crimes and the way they do them. That is why they get the huge bucks because they are able to look at the evidence clearly, weighing it all in totality, rather than getting bogged down in the weeds by what the killer wants them 'to believe or think.'

I do believe fully that Sills has identifying DNA whether it is hair, fibers, or even tissue samples, but what he does not have is a suspect to compare his DNA evidence to nor does he have this DNA profile anywhere in a data bank system.........He did tell Mark Winne he has evidence in his possession that will help him once the killer is IDd.

IMO

That's it Ocean Blue Eyes!! Book'em Danno!
 
Ocean Blue Eyes - we are on the same page and have been since early on. Thanks to you and Bootsctr for the support. People on facebook were so general, IMO. Not quite the true crime affecionadoes that we are, and I only mean that in a good sense. Wish I had rose-colored glasses but I think I've read too much by now. I love so many of my books but nothing keeps me awake like this, I just can't fathom how these minds think. However, today these young kids are living in a virtual reality. I think you were right about it just being one kid and yes, he lives right there. Nobody came in the night to this one little cove of this sweet older couple with a message or intention to kill. That's just me personally. I love all the thought provoking that goes on here, you guys are great. And if I have to eat crow pie, I'll have a slice with you, haha!

If we have to eat crow together, Happy... we will have to find us a good recipe. It may taste ok actually if it is smothered in a rich brown gravy. I have never had to eat crow before but if I do in this case..........then oh well.:) I am sticking with it until something tells me otherwise.

I read the FB page too until I couldn't take the ignorance anymore. You could tell most of them hadn't even kept up with the case closely, and wouldn't know a fact if it fell on their head.:D Its really hilarious in one way and shows such arrogance in another. They are so sure they know way more than the investigators know. I don't know how LE ever solves cases day in and day out without them. (I am being sarcastic of course):floorlaugh:

FB is rampant when it comes to those who make comments when they don't even know all the particulars/details in the case. Its not just this case but its every case that is discussed there. There sure are some whackadoodles over there though.....that's for sure. lol It can be entertaining sometimes.
 
I think it is odd that their cellphones were in the house, but not used to call 911, if the theory is correct about perhaps Shirley witnessed Russell's murder or could ID the killer. In theory, was she too far away from the phone to call 911?
IMOO.

I wondered about that too. If Shirley had heard the scuffle and shouting you would think she would have called 911 on her cell phone. Guess they both were taken by surprise and she never had a chance to get to her cell phone or any phone if they even had a land line.
 
Wow, Ocean, what an excellent and well written post! LE needs you on their staff. I like the law that adds additional time if victims are over 65 too.

Hopefully with these two gruesome murders, the perp will never see daylight again! No plea deals on this one! Of course they have to catch him first, I feel Sills will get him.

Thanks again for the great post! I am on an old computer and it is a stubborn ole miss who doesn't let me choose more smilies.

:seeya:
 
OBE, thanks..I feel so much better now. Plus we never said "Botched robbery". There has to be some good evidence in all that they collected. That's all I really want.
 
Your post (specifically what is bolded for specifics) made me think of something I thought a few days ago, but somehow it slipped into the abyss. Sheriff Sills specifically commented on how clean the house was. He never mentioned the condition of the garage. I just wonder what the garage looked like. If Shirley came down when she heard a disturbance in the garage or came in from outside to the garage if she had been gardening and disrupted the perp in the garage it might have been a horrible mess as if a struggle had ensued there. We know Russell was moved only a few feet. What if he was just unconscious and woke up in the garage? Maybe the garage looked like a cyclone had hit it?

I believe if the inside of the home was neat and tidy and if the garage was in a disarray Sills would definitely ask friends and family if Russ also kept his garage very tidy as well. I bet he did.

I also wonder if they found maybe some power tools etc. piled up together on the garage floor.

If so, that might explain why Sills says he believes it was someone that came there thinking the Dermonds had something or wanted something they had.

Doesn't his statement seem to lean toward it being a would be robber?

IMO
 
I wondered about that too. If Shirley had heard the scuffle and shouting you would think she would have called 911 on her cell phone. Guess they both were taken by surprise and she never had a chance to get to her cell phone or any phone if they even had a land line.

I truly think that both of them had a false sense of security by living there so long and being safe the entire time until this happened to them.:(

They probably were confused and stunned by what was happening. Russ probably thought he could handle it.

IMO
 
I believe if the inside of the home was neat and tidy and if the garage was in a disarray Sills would definitely ask friends and family if Russ also kept his garage very tidy as well. I bet he did.

I also wonder if they found maybe some power tools etc. piled up together on the garage floor.

If so, that might explain why Sills says he believes it was someone that came there thinking the Dermonds had something or wanted something they had.

Doesn't his statement seem to lean toward it being a would be robber?

IMO

Oh yes. Most definitely. I agree wholeheartedly with your previous post. Have a little crush on you too OBE! :loveyou:

Do you think he lives close by? Maybe not in the same community, but in another lake community?

Just got to catch the little ###### now.
 
Wow, Ocean, what an excellent and well written post! LE needs you on their staff. I like the law that adds additional time if victims are over 65 too.

Hopefully with these two gruesome murders, the perp will never see daylight again! No plea deals on this one! Of course they have to catch him first, I feel Sills will get him.

Thanks again for the great post! I am on an old computer and it is a stubborn ole miss who doesn't let me choose more smilies.

:seeya:

Why thank you! So nice to 'see' you today!:seeya:

Yes I like that law too since so many of the elderly seem to be targeted now.
 
Mrs. D not having the cell phone with her does not surprise me. First, at 87 Mrs. D did not grow up with a cell phone attached to her as the kids do today, so grabbing it as she went to check the noise in the garage would not be her first thought.

My guess is they still had landline phones and cells were used when they went out. In fact, many older people consider cell phones a nuisance.

If this occurred during daylight hours, if they let the perp in the front door, as we have discussed for many threads, that is even more reason that Mrs. D would not think the police would need to be called. JMO

ETA: Agree with OBE regarding they lived with a sense of security having lived there so many years. Truth be known, the majority of us probably live this way today. Particularly seniors who are on a fixed income.
 
Oh yes. Most definitely. I agree wholeheartedly with your previous post. Have a little crush on you too OCB! :loveyou:

Do you think he lives close by? Maybe not in the same community, but in another lake community?

Just got to catch the little ###### now.

Ah... I am so lucky.:blushing: See my avatar? Don't I look like a sweetie pie? I really am as sweet as I look.:floorlaugh:

Back on topic: To me to accomplish all of this undetected I think he must live nearby. Who else would know all the particulars that needed to be known to pull this off sight unseen?

The same answers keep being the same to me over and over again. That way he doesn't have to worry about going through the front gate. IMO, he was already on the GW grounds before the murders ever occurred. He needed no other transportation other than the boat he used to take Shirley out into the deep water and then return home. He would be able to distance her body by miles for GW. If he wasn't from there why would he care what part of the water he put her in?

Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest one and not one that is very complex.

Who the heck really knows but this is just my take on it, and it makes sense......well at least it makes sense to me anyway.:)
 
Ah... I am so lucky.:blushing: See my avatar? Don't I look like a sweetie pie? I really am as sweet as I look.:floorlaugh:

Back on topic: To me to accomplish all of this undetected I think he must live nearby. Who else would know all the particulars that needed to be known to pull this off sight unseen?

The same answers keep being the same to me over and over again. That way he doesn't have to worry about going through the front gate. IMO, he was already on the GW grounds before the murders ever occurred. He needed no other transportation other than the boat he used to take Shirley out into the deep water and then return home. He would be able to distance her body by miles for GW. If he wasn't from there why would he care what part of the water he put her in?

Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest one and not one that is very complex.

Who the heck really knows but this is just my take on it, and it makes sense......well at least it makes sense to me anyway.:)

Yes, you look like a sweetheart! And I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Sheriff Sills needs to find him and maybe the reward will help if one of his friends know he did it. Hopefully things are as tight at GW as Fort Knox now and nothing else will happen there, but I just don't wish what happened to the Dermonds on anyone. If he thinks he got away with it, he's braver now and even more dangerous. . . Just my opinion though! Maybe he's hiding like a rat in a sewer pipe.
 
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