GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #1

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lonetraveler said:
The rear facing car seat for a 22 month old caught my eye too. I have never seen a rear facing car seat for a child that age. I have seven grandchildren and have seen my share of car seats.
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All three of my kids rearfaced until three and a half years or so.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8gU9zzCGA8

That's a video that is very convincing. It didn't take that for me, I just the manuals and the recommendations. It was further reinforced when a family I knew was involved in a fatal accident. One died, three were seriously injured. The young, rear facing, infant made it out without a scratch.
 
Here is a map that I created so that we can see the locations in a better view.

It is incredible that this all took place in such a small area.

So sad.

Justin Harris Route
 
Okay, I have been ANXIOUSLY waiting to make this observation until I had my nephew. He was just dropped off and we are outside in the driveway. I have a Hyundai and my nephew is 19 months old and sits in a rear facing seat. (Not tall enough to forward.) I've walked up to the driver side and as I get close, I can CLEARLY see him sitting through the tinted windows. Even if I glance out of the side of my eye. I open the door and if I lean forward to throw something on the other seat, I see leg and hand, and ear.

ETA: In other news, there is a half eaten banana and partial bag of apple slices from 8:00 am that stinks to high heaven. I can only imagine what he smelled when he opened that door at noon...
 
CrazytownUSA said:
That is my point I've been trying to make the last few pages, LOL. You keep saying that he didn't see the baby, my point is, at noon, he likely would have SMELLED the baby.. so yes, by noon he would have passed away, and at noon there should have been a call to 911, not at 4:30 in the afternoon... If he did go to his car at noon, there is no way he didn't know something was seriously wrong.
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We don't know if he did in fact have a BM, though, and it isn't obvious that Harris got inside the car.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or petty here. I don't think a 22 month old's BM would be overpowering - especially if you have a toddler and would be relatively desensitized to it.

Who knows what his car smells like to begin with.

I know everyone says well he SHOULD have been able to know this, but I think it's quite possible that he didn't, "shoulds" aside.
 
If he had a giant carseat like a Britax, it is completely possible that he couldn't see the baby. They are huge seats.
 
JeannaT said:
The car seat would have always been in the car, Crazytown, whether the baby was in it or not. Seeing the car seat in the car, and being unable to see whether Cooper was in it (if that's actually the case) wouldn't make him realize he didn't drop him off.

It might trigger a series of thought processes where he remembered he had not been to daycare, but that carseat must always be in his car right there all the time.

His wife must have another one if she does the pick up and he does the drop off.
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Been busy preparing for a tax audit, yeah right :tantrum: I took a break to check on this case and a few things stick out like a sore thumb to me. First, does anyone know where the Daycare center is located? Is it between the Chic Filet where he had breakfast with the baby? The Chic Filet is less than a mile from his office, only a few blocks in fact. That is such a short travel time to forget that you just had breakfast with your son. If the Daycare Center isn't located between Chic Filet and the parking lot then he already knew that he had forgotten to take his son to daycare because he ate breakfast with him. I'm wondering if the father was enraged because he had not dropped him off at daycare. Also wondering if people at Chic Filet noticed if the baby was fussy or screaming during breakfast. He didn't leave Chic Filet and take the baby to the daycare center after forgetting to take him so IMO, it looks like he just said to hell with it and being enraged just left him in the car. Looked up how long it would take for him to die, checked on him at noon to see if he was dead yet. Left work and made the stop in the shopping center for the "oh my God, what have I done" act.

Right now, that is where I'm at, although I have not been able to follow along 100% and may have missed something along the way. Feel free to show me where I might have wandered off the path.
 
FlyerFan28 said:
If he had a giant carseat like a Britax, it is completely possible that he couldn't see the baby. They are huge seats.
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See my directly above post. We have a Britax, I will link the model.
 
It can also depend on the type of carseat. I couldn't see my kid in her Britax Marathon from the driver's seat.

I'm fully of the belief that at some point he was aware the kid was there, though, so that's sort of moot, but I wouldn't assume he could see the kid simply because someone else could. JMO! All vehicles, carseats, people, are different.
 
Just thinking out loud here, but having had four children, 22 month old kids make noise! Once they're up, they're UP, especially if we were exiting the car or stopping for breakfast. I can remember mine jabbering constantly at that age...not talking per se, but making Noise--giggling, squealing, banging something, asking questions, etc. These days, many kids are entertained by iPad devices, etc that make noise. I had one that would fall asleep the minute he got in a car, so I could have more understanding if the baby was asleep, but to feed the child Chick fil a minutes before? I'm sorry, but I just don't think a person can forget their child that quickly.
 
JeannaT said:
We don't know if he did in fact have a BM, though, and it isn't obvious that Harris got inside the car.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or petty here. I don't think a 22 month old's BM would be overpowering - especially if you have a toddler and would be relatively desensitized to it.

Who knows what his car smells like to begin with.

I know everyone says well he SHOULD have been able to know this, but I think it's quite possible that he didn't, "shoulds" aside.
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I dare you to find a dirty (pee and poop) diaper and place it in your car in 90 degree heat and sun for even an hour and tell me it's not overpowering :floorlaugh:

The child suffered a horrific death, he baked for hours. The chances that he DIDN'T move his bladder and bowels are almost non-existent.
 
JeannaT said:
Cher, some things that seem obvious aren't.

I would be curious if the child COULD be seen from someone opening the driver door.

I'm not talking about remembering/forgetfulnesss/priorities here, I'm solely talking about whether a rear facing child in that car seat could actually be seen from someone opening the driver door.

Signs point to no, as there was a market for mirrors that you could install so you COULD see your baby in such a position, from the driver seat.
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I'm sorry, but I couldn't NOT see this in the back seat.
RF-in-ETA.bmp


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blue22 said:
See my directly above post. We have a Britax, I will link the model.
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I had a Roundabout and a Marathon. Until my son got long enough to max it out, you couldn't see him in it looking from the front. I have a big kid too.
 
blue22 said:
Okay, I have been ANXIOUSLY waiting to make this observation until I had my nephew. He was just dropped off and we are outside in the driveway. I have a Hyundai and my nephew is 19 months old and sits in a rear facing seat. (Not tall enough to forward.) I've walked up to the driver side and as I get close, I can CLEARLY see him sitting through the tinted windows. Even if I glance out of the side of my eye. I open the door and if I lean forward to throw something on the other seat, I see leg and hand, and ear.

ETA: In other news, there is a half eaten banana and partial bag of apple slices from 8:00 am that stinks to high heaven. I can only imagine what he smelled when he opened that door at noon...
Click to expand...

LOL, yep, also remember that he ate breakfast with the baby, put him in the carseat and drove less than a mile (only a few blocks) to where he worked. That's what only about two minutes? He knew at the restaurant that he had not dropped him off unless the daycare is between Chic Filet and his work and it is very hard to believe that he totally forgot the baby in two minutes.
 
CrazytownUSA said:
I dare you to find a dirty (pee and poop) diaper and place it in your car in 90 degree heat and sun for even an hour and tell me it's not overpowering :floorlaugh:

The child suffered a horrific death, he baked for hours. The chances that he DIDN'T move his bladder and bowels are almost non-existent.
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This won't be subject to conjecture - this is a fact we don't yet know. So maybe it should be left to discuss when we do know? And no, the chances aren't "non existant" According to the ER website I looked at earlier, it's about 50-50.

But anyway, no sense in discussing a point of fact that just hasn't been made clear yet.
 
that is not a 22 month old child. try taking a pic looking from the driver's side door.
 
CherBearSTL said:
I'm sorry, but I couldn't NOT see this in the back seat.
RF-in-ETA.bmp


Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
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That looks very uncomfortable. She is having to keep her legs bent because they are too long to extend. I would feel like I was sitting in a clothes basket, LOL.
 
CrazytownUSA said:
Would you at least agree that in a 3 hour period of time after eating that a baby would likely go to the bathroom? A scent that would mow one down after it had been sitting in a hot car... that he was in at noon.
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The diapers that we use hold in the stinky unless she is moving around a lot. Once that diaper is off though - O.M.G. :razz:
 
We have this car seat, not usually in the middle, but we moved it there for this. I can see, quite clearly there is a child there. My sister doesn't want me to post a picture even with his face not in the picture...sorry.

http://www.britaxusa.com/car-seats/advocate (I hope that link is allowed.)

(She also thinks I'm mildly insane. I will never move that again, it took me forever to figure out how to latch it back!!)
 
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