GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #2

[LisaB]

How would you tell if someone deliberately left their child in the car vs. forgot the child in the car?

If they went into work and googled "How long does it take an animal to die in a hot car", went to the car at lunchtime but did not mention this to police later, claimed to have heard a child choking in the car seat en route home, when he knew he had not PICKED UP the child from daycare, and left work early enough to "find" the dead child BEFORE their spouse arrived at the daycare facility to pick him up, drove miles in a stinky car before pulling into a populated shopping center before checking on the aforementioned "choking" child, and presented a "sweaty" child in full rigor mortis, I'd say you'd have a clue. The very fact that he heard ANY noise from the car seat should have prompted him to pull over IMMEDIATELY onto the shoulder of the road, since it would have to dawn on him INSTANTLY that he had neglected to drop the child off at daycare that morning.

 

[blue22]

The sweat on him would have evaporated. imo

Yes. Very quickly. A saturated towel is not going to evaporate like human skin does. He wouldn't have even been damp, let alone wet.

 

[LisaB]

The sweat on him would have evaporated. imo

What about the sweat under him, between him and the seat? Sorry if this is confusing.

 

[JudyBolton]

That is a towel that is made to pull and hold water, saturating a seat underneath. We are talking about a deceased child in a car seat with a previously sweaty head. Heads don't hold moisture like a towel.

I really just don't think there is a scenario that makes him being wet naturally possible. Medically, scientifically...it doesn't make sense.

Also - if you look at his most recent photos - he didn't have a head full of thick hair - just that fine - still baby-like hair that dries quickly...

 

[Judicious1]

I'm way behind, trying to catch up but needed to comment on this. BBM

I can't believe there are still people that think because friends, family, or neighbors think someone is a good person, great parent, wonderful family man, etc....means they aren't capable of something horrific.

If anyone is being honest with themselves, what is the most prominent thing we hear from people wrt people who commit murder, even serial killers?

**He/she was such a nice guy/gal, I can't believe it**

**He/she was a great neighbor, always helpful, and loved playing with the kids**

**I'm in shock. I never thought 'insertnamehere" would do something like this**

Every. Single. Case.

By the way, Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy were both pillars of their community, and described as pleasant, kind, nice, generous and NORMAL.

Until they weren't.

Every single case...Really?...... That's a pretty strong statement and I have to disagree. I'm thinking kids that get returned to parents after child protective services previously took them from their care just to learn the kid ends up dead don't have many people saying they are surprised or saying any of the things listed above. Same for known sex offenders, rapists ... You get the point. Yes a lot of heinous crimes have been committed by people assumed to be good and pillars of the community but to say this is always the case is an unfair statement to me because its just not the case.

I think people who seem to still support the accident theory acknowledge there are things that don't add up on both sides and aren't ready to crucify him based on what we know so far. I don't think anyone straight up denies there is a good chance it can go both ways. I'm still waiting for more for examples. The reasons are scattered trough out the thread so I won't get into them all.

 

[RainCheck]

If they have information, it's probably coming from him. I won't hang my hat on that. They aren't going to outline their case for the family.

Yes, exactly! I doubt the police have given them any information to indicate this was an accident. I'm sure they are basing everything on what the perp has told them. I'm sure it's very hard for the family to believe the father could do this so they will believe what they want to believe. In fact, they may never believe it even if he is convicted. It depends on what sort of people they are. Some people need to live in a fantasy to survive reality. If they admit someone they loved and trusted fully could be such an evil monster it may be too much for them to bare. There are plenty of child killers and human monsters in general who have families who will never admit they could possibly be guilty. It's very selfish and self preservation at its worst, but I think its common.

 

[Patience]

Two new details were added to a revised Cobb County criminal warrant Tuesday: Not only did Justin Ross Harris put his son in the car minutes before arriving at work on June 18, but he returned to his car hours later during his lunch break.
Harris placed his son, 22-month-old Cooper, into a rear-facing child restraint in the backseat of his Hyundai Tucson after eating breakfast at a fast-food restaurant. He then drove to his workplace, a Home Depot corporate office about a half-mile away, according to the warrant.
Read the criminal warrant (PDF)
The 33-year-old father returned to the car during his lunch break, opening the driver's side door "to place an object into the vehicle," the warrant states.
Warrant: Dad went to hot car, left son Shocking details in hot car death case Mom: How can I forget my child in a car Mom: 'My lapse in responsibility'
Later that afternoon, around 4:16, Harris left his workplace near Vinings, outside Atlanta. Within minutes, he pulled into a shopping center asking for assistance with the toddler, who had been in the car for about seven hours at that point, the warrant says.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/25/justice/georgia-toddler-death/

 

[popsicle]

What about the sweat under him, between him and the seat? Sorry if this is confusing.

His clothes that are in contact with damp things under him will probably still be damp to the touch but they aren't going to be soaked unless he poured water on him. jmo

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

If they went into work and googled "How long does it take an animal to die in a hot car", went to the car at lunchtime but did not mention this to police later, claimed to have heard a child choking in the car seat en route home, when he knew he had not PICKED UP the child from daycare, and left work early enough to "find" the dead child BEFORE their spouse arrived at the daycare facility to pick him up, drove miles in a stinky car before pulling into a populated shopping center before checking on the aforementioned "choking" child, and presented a "sweaty" child in full rigor mortis, I'd say you'd have a clue. The very fact that he heard ANY noise from the car seat should have prompted him to pull over IMMEDIATELY onto the shoulder of the road, since it would have to dawn on him INSTANTLY that he had neglected to drop the child off at daycare that morning.

1.) That "search" is rumored and could be the result of a click-through and we don't know when it transpired.

2.) It is extremely plausible that he put an item in the car and did not see the child. ...AND it has been reported that he did state this fact in interview.

3.) If it was planned, he would have been better off with the mother going to daycare and getting the child. That timing makes no difference in this case.

4.) Where he pulled over and his state of mind and denial have no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

5.) I'm not sure where the smell of the car comes in. I have researched this case and am unaware of a smell issue.

It is most plausible that this is simply another hot car incident.

 

[JudyBolton]

If you haven't seen this Daily Mail article - it has a lot of photos of the family and Cooper that I had not seen anywhere else. It always seems that they (Daily Mail) have more in depth stories on things happening in the U.S. than our own newspapers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html

 

[Jade]

The warrant states they went in and the "father" after put him in his rear facing seat after breakfast.

It's very difficult to get out of a 5 point harness seat. You can't wiggle out. I have a 5 year old in a 5 point seat, and I have to open it every time.

Thanks Blue.

Saw one of those SUVs at lunch today inside compartment is smallish.

I just don’t see how… especially after having just put him back in…oh my ..

 

[blue22]

What about the sweat under him, between him and the seat? Sorry if this is confusing.

He was deceased quickly, IMO. If he stopped sweating after 2 hours let say, that is 5 hours of MINIMUM 115 degrees. (In fact, at noon the car would have been well over 130 degrees.) I don't believe the seat would still be saturated from sweat, or even damp from sweat. Other fluids (I'm sorry I don't want to go further) I think would have dried, as well.

Which leads me to wonder, how he didn't smell anything when he went to the car. When something is left in the car, you open that door and it hits you like a ton of bricks. Like I had said, we had a half banana and some apple slices left in the car for 3 hours yesterday. Upon opening the door it was intense. A human body in the heat, with any number of bodily fluids would be much worse.

 

[JeannaT]

I'm way behind, trying to catch up but needed to comment on this. BBM

I can't believe there are still people that think because friends, family, or neighbors think someone is a good person, great parent, wonderful family man, etc....means they aren't capable of something horrific.

If anyone is being honest with themselves, what is the most prominent thing we hear from people wrt people who commit murder, even serial killers?

**He/she was such a nice guy/gal, I can't believe it**

**He/she was a great neighbor, always helpful, and loved playing with the kids**

**I'm in shock. I never thought 'insertnamehere" would do something like this**

Every. Single. Case.

By the way, Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy were both pillars of their community, and described as pleasant, kind, nice, generous and NORMAL.

Until they weren't.

I do often see people say "WOW! That guy was really involved in the community . . . coached little league . . . we never knew""I'd see her out thre playing with the kids in the front yard during the summer. We never had any idea they had a child locked away in the house we never saw". "Scary. That guy lived next door to us and we never noticed anything all that odd".

That's really different from people who know someone very deeply and for a long time saying "Honestly, I can't believe that person did this. I've known him since high school and we've been through a lot of life as dear friends, and I don't think he would ever purposely harm his child".

I think we all know people who, if we heard something happened to their child or wife we'd say "I"m certain he had nothing to do with it. I'm certain of that" and other people we'd say "well, I guess in retrospect I'm not all that completely surprised".

Are you aware that none of Ted Bundy's family - none - came to his trials or defended him in any way? He'd burned through them long before he was convicted of murder. Bundy had virtually no friends, and although folklore said he had a major professor who adored him, the professor actually said well, he was my student. I didn't really see him as positively as people think.

The cases of serial killers or other horrible criminals I've heard, people are more surprised that they lived right next to this evil - than they're truly surprised that person could do that, based on his apparently wonderful and delightful and kind and caring and consistent personality.

Before you posted, I was actually thinking along these exact terms. There are people who would NOT harm their child, and people who might.

It's a myth to think that murderers - or as you say, every SINGLE ONE - has people who say they don't believe they were capable.

Yes, there are people who you can count on - and take that to the BANK - that they won't plot to kill their own children. There are people you know won't do that, and they won't. And that's different from saying wow he lived right on my street and I never knew what a creep he really was.

 

[blue22]

Thanks Blue.

Saw one of those SUVs at lunch today inside compartment is smallish.

I just don’t see how… especially after having just put him back in…oh my ..

I have the same vehicle. I could see my nephew (around the same age) in the rear facing seat, which is quite large.

 

[Jayarre]

1.) That "search" is rumored and could be the result of a click-through and we don't know when it transpired.

2.) It is extremely plausible that he put an item in the car and did not see the child. ...AND it has been reported that he did state this fact in interview.

3.) If it was planned, he would have been better off with the mother going to daycare and getting the child. That timing makes no difference in this case.

4.) Where he pulled over and his state of mind and denial have no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

5.) I'm not sure where the smell of the car comes in. I have researched this case and am unaware of a smell issue.

It is most plausible that this is another hot car incident.

BBM

The car didn't snatch him up and cause his death..His father caused his death by leaving him in the hot car for 7 hours. That is neglect.

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

BBM

The car didn't snatch him up and cause his death..His father caused his death by leaving him in the hot car for 7 hours. That is neglect.

I agree. If they want to charge him for this neglect then so be it -- but that's not what they're doing. LE has stated that there is something more "sinister" here and that it "shocks the conscience".

 

[Threeplus1]

1.) .

5.) I'm not sure where the smell of the car comes in. I have researched this case and am unaware of a smell issue.

RSBM

As officers approached the vehicle, they stated that the smell was overwhelmingly powerful and undeniable. The public information officer stated this at the press conference.

A dr on HLN has even said that at those temps, it's possible to have early decomposition even in just that short a period of time. His name was Dr. di Maio. He's seen bodies decompose in a car in the sun in less than 8 hrs.

 

[KindraLore]

Not that I am saying I'm right, but when I looked online that address appeared to be in Fulton County. It doesn't really matter, I was just thinking out loud really.

I live in Cobb and I know this area well. It may or may not have an Atlanta address but this is Cobb and definitely not in the "city" of Atlanta.

 

[blue22]

1.) That "search" is rumored and could be the result of a click-through and we don't know when it transpired.

2.) It is extremely plausible that he put an item in the car and did not see the child. ...AND it has been reported that he did state this fact in interview.

3.) If it was planned, he would have been better off with the mother going to daycare and getting the child. That timing makes no difference in this case.

4.) Where he pulled over and his state of mind and denial have no bearing on his guilt or innocence.

5.) I'm not sure where the smell of the car comes in. I have researched this case and am unaware of a smell issue.

It is most plausible that this is simply another hot car incident.

1. No one ever said it was the result of a "click through" and that search isn't what got him arrested.

2. Why should we believe his words? He said he hadn't been at at the car, and he had. He already lied. I have the exact same vehicle and I can CLEARLY see a child in the rear facing seat. Not to mention the smell he would encounter.

3. The timing makes all the difference. Anytime you have a day a child dies and unusually timed events transpire...that is HUGE.

4. It can cause doubt to his innocence, and prompt an investigation. Certain things can suggest staging and lies.

5. LE said the smell was overwhelming. How could smell NOT come into play, when the father says he had no idea, and then drove with an unbearable death smell?

It is most plausible that this boy deserves and investigation and justice, and the father is where he belongs. The car didn't hoodwink him into his suspicious and criminal actions and inaction.

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

Hell... I guess this guy really is un-defendable...I can't imagine he did this purposefully. It's as though I am in a sort of denial and can't bring myself to come to terms with this. There really may be something more sinister... but I've seen many of murderers get bail...the no bail thing still has me perplexed.