GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #3

[Linda7NJ]

Can you say why you distrust this reporter so much? Others have said he's very well respected, wins awards, etc.

As to why an IT guy would put incriminating stuff on his computer, criminals are often simply stupid.

Per the TOS, we are allowed to treat media reports as fact, not rumor. However, I do see why that People.com quote from LE would cause you pause. It certainly does indicate, the way it is worded, that LE is discounting the internet search rumor.



Mom put the kid in the car, it states.





Scarlett, can you say why you don;t believe the death smell report?

Is it because of the info that JeannaT found? Because I agree. What I've found online indicates it takes days before that decomp smell is readily apparent. That's why when I heard that report I instantly thought the kid died days before.

I mean Caylee was in a trunk in hot Florida for days before there were comments indicating the vehicle smelled.

I would think a human left in a boiling car for hours may smell like cooked meat, , but not decomp. Not yet.

And bodily fluids do not smell, unless they are poop and pee, until they've decomped for days.

Does the heat make a difference? I don;t know. I have often had food left over in my car. Often. It usually seems to take 24 hours or more.

I found these posts in the Caylee archive. Maybe someone can make sense of them for me:

Food takes 24 hrs or more because the stomach is removed.

That car reeked. IMO it was overpowering and there is no mistaking decomposition for a dirty diaper.
Yes, diapers stink... It's just not the same.

IMO
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[popsicle]

Yes, seriously. Do a google search yourself, "when do human dead bodies start to smell".

You won't find a reliable link written by a coroner or ER physicians that says a matter of hours.

That's why when children die, you can't find them. Even if they're within 50 yards and it's baking summer. Because they don't smell for a long time.

This is what you said.. decay becomes very noticeable at 2.5 days and reaches peak at about 4-5 days. And that's for adults. Little babies smell sweeter than adults and this one was very small.

Because babies are smaller and smell sweeter the decomp smell will not be noticeable as quickly or they will not decompose as quickly?

The truth is imo... In that heat... a temp of 130-170 within the car... a small child will actually decompose faster than usual and will decompose faster than an adult.

 

[Judicious1]

Nothing about smell or rigor.. Thanks. And in fact if he was in rigor, Then no one would have helped him with cpr.

"“The child looked sweaty and tired. Two guys started to give the boy CPR. I was on the curb and the father and another individual brought the boy out. The father kept circling around us yelling and screaming, “What did I do? Oh my God, my child is dead!” Smith added."


BBM. Not rigor.

Sweaty and tired is a far cry from soaking wet hair like he had been in a pool.
And yes, if he was in rigor I'm doubting a stranger would have thought that would help

 

[tlcya]

you know me and my love of a direct quote

 

[georgiagirl]

And that, Gitana, may be exactly what made LE IMMEDIATELY suspicious. That may be the whole thing, in it's entirety, and what caused them to issue that cryptic statement about not being able to verify that the child was in the car that morning. Because at that time, due to not expecting a smell from a child so recently deceased, they believed firmly the baby had been dead for many days and Harris was lying about him dying that day.

I think that's exactly it. They arrive to a call about a child who died that morning accidentally, and are greeted by a smell typical of a child that had been dead for 5 days and immediately they went into the mode of knowing Harris to be lying, and then they worked to discover what had actually happened to the baby despite this father's indication the child died that day.

I think that's it. For some reason this baby smelled (or didn't, who knows what all the witness reports will say, and whoever did forensics on the car) like he'd been dead for a very long time instead of under 8 hours.

But Cooper was seen at Chik fila with RH that morning alive.


Always My Opinion Only!

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[JeannaT]

But he was trapped in a car, not in a field or anywhere where there was air circulating

That's not what I'm reading, snowblossom. That the odor doesn't begin until about 2.5 days.

I hate to be gruesome here, but if anyone as had a beloved pet die and then wait a while to bury it to when the family can gather that night you'll know even a labrador doesn't smell yet - even if he's been out in the hot backyard - after a handful of hours. You can still pic him up, wrap him in a blanket and bury him without smelling death.

Lack of air circulation would concentrate the odor - not create it.

 

[Lorne Malvo]

Because babies are smaller and smell sweeter the decomp smell will not be noticeable as quickly or they will not decompose as quickly?

The truth is imo... In that heat... a temp of 130-170 within the car... a small child will actually decompose faster than usual and will decompose faster than an adult.

Bingo!!! :loveyou:

 

[tut med]

He has worked at Home Depot for two years. Home Depot Corporate Communications Manager Catherine H. Woodling said he worked "on our .com business, but I'm not sure what his title is."

He was placed on unpaid leave after the charges were filed in the June 18 incident -- a routine action in such situations, Woodling said
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/26/justice/georgia-toddler-death-father/

He was put on unpaid leave on the 18th? When did he go back to work?

 

[JeannaT]

But Cooper was seen at Chik fila with RH that morning alive.


Always My Opinion Only!

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Yes, right. I think the cop made that statement before that had been fully corroborated - if I remember correctly. I think he made it pretty quickly after the story began, when it sounds like they flat out didn't believe a word of the whole story as told in that mall parking lot.

 

[LaborDayRN]

you know me and my love of a direct quote

Thanks tlcya! I was still looking..............but knew I had read it. :blushing:

 

[tlcya]

I have had a long week at work but have done this research or a variation before. I need to be more like Bessie who says she has lots of bookmarks when complimented about her amazing ability to put her fingers on a link!

But I am not nearly as organized and hope she offers classes on sleuthing one day, lol

I myself linked lots of info about decomp from respected forensic or educational sites in other cases.

I have researched in the past decomp in closed spaces, decomp in forested areas in winter, decomp here decomp there.

The info is out there. JMO

 

[BrianInBirmingham]

...and I would like to add that the witness or witnesses saying that Harris was behaving like he was "acting" or "theatrical" didn't start coming in until almost a week later. The only thing I smelled then was witness tampering. ... And for those beating the drum, no one denies that the actions of the father led to the death of this child. This thread is about more "sinister" motives and is not a memorial to this poor, poor child. I can't drive the a parking lot without being haunted by this terrible tragedy.[modsnip] Because they do....[modsnip] ... Whether you endorse laws against it or not... Approximately one in ten million American humans (mostly children) will die in a hot car a year until some inventor and manufacturers solve it.

 

[gitana1]

That quote from cobb bothers me a lot. There was no need for it. It is just trying to get everyone upset and start the hunt. He really should have said nothing more than there is a current investigation.

I don't know if I believe anything more at this point. I just am not sure. But this kind of commenting helps nothing IMPO.

Maybe not but I'm not sure why this comment is suspect but the statements in people, which infers that it is in reference to the internet search report, is appropriate? Or not to be discounted?

How dare you make assumptions and implications about this woman who IS A VICTIM. Unbelievable.


Always My Opinion Only!

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I haven't seen anyone doing that? Isn't it kind of universally understood that dad is the only one who can be blamed here?

BTW guys, here is what was said about the baby's body:

The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn't natural.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-car-toddler-son-died-way.html#ixzz35t8jBmfM
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook​

But I:m not sure why this is up for much debate. I;m no expert, but if rigor begins after a couple of hours, and if experts state the baby likely died within an hour, how could the baby not be in full rigor after 8?

Rigor normally appears within the body around two hours after the deceased has passed away with - as we have already mentioned - the facial and upper neck and shoulder muscles first to visibly suffer from its effects. Many Scenes of Crime Officers (SOCO) have reported that upon discovering the deceased that their face might have taken on what looks to be a grimace; this is because the facial muscles have contracted as ATP drains from them. http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Because babies are smaller and smell sweeter the decomp smell will not be noticeable as quickly or they will not decompose as quickly?

The truth is imo... In that heat... a temp of 130-170 within the car... a small child will actually decompose faster than usual and will decompose faster than an adult.

DO you have factual info for that? Because we are made of the same biological material and I have never seen anything allude to a child decomposing faster than a child. It is the same process for us all.

 

[Judicious1]

And that, Gitana, may be exactly what made LE IMMEDIATELY suspicious. That may be the whole thing, in it's entirety, and what caused them to issue that cryptic statement about not being able to verify that the child was in the car that morning. Because at that time, due to not expecting a smell from a child so recently deceased, they believed firmly the baby had been dead for many days and Harris was lying about him dying that day.

I think that's exactly it. They arrive to a call about a child who died that morning accidentally, and are greeted by a smell typical of a child that had been dead for 5 days and immediately they went into the mode of knowing Harris to be lying, and then they worked to discover what had actually happened to the baby despite this father's indication the child died that day.

I think that's it. For some reason this baby smelled (or didn't, who knows what all the witness reports will say, and whoever did forensics on the car) like he'd been dead for a very long time instead of under 8 hours.

But he didn't die days before and he was alive that morning at Chicfila that part was verified by police and not rumor. He took the child for breakfast.
Cause of death is hyperthermia. What do you think he drove around for days with a corpse? I'm confused by your statement maybe I read it to fast if so I apologize in advance.

 

[snowblossom2]

'But the baby didn't look like it had been choking, it looked like it had been sweating, like it had been in a swimming pool, his hair was all wet.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-car-toddler-son-died-way.html#ixzz35t7u19mI
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

First, The mailonline, Not my favorite source.

But again. The child being sweaty and no mention of odd position.

I just am not sure it is true.

Dd you read the whole article but it is in there, by another eye witness

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html

And even the person who you quote above, says in their next sentence that they think he knew that Cooper was dead and was acting funny

 

[Lorne Malvo]

That's not what I'm reading, snowblossom. That the odor doesn't begin until about 2.5 days.

I hate to be gruesome here, but if anyone as had a beloved pet die and then wait a while to bury it to when the family can gather that night you'll know even a labrador doesn't smell yet - even if he's been out in the hot backyard - after a handful of hours. You can still pic him up, wrap him in a blanket and bury him without smelling death.

Lack of air circulation would concentrate the odor - not create it.

A family pet would not die of 130-170* temps inside car so that's not a good comparison. But if it did, just like Cooper he would have an awful odor as Cobb county police reported. FWIW.

:banghead:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

...and I would like to add that the witness or witnesses saying that Harris was behaving like he was "acting" or "theatrical" didn't start coming in until almost a week later. The only thing I smelled then was witness tampering.

That just does not mean anything to me. I just have seen so many odd reactions from people in grief, so that alone is just commentary from a sideliner.

 

[Judicious1]

You're saying the Cobb County police lied when they stated the strong odor inside auto was overwhelming? :floorlaugh:

MOOYA. :moo:

Problem is we can't find where they said that it smelled... Only that a unnamed source said it to Randy Travis.

 

[JeannaT]

Because babies are smaller and smell sweeter the decomp smell will not be noticeable as quickly or they will not decompose as quickly?

The truth is imo... In that heat... a temp of 130-170 within the car... a small child will actually decompose faster than usual and will decompose faster than an adult.

I think the decomp smell will not be noticeable as quickly answer. This is just my guess. I don't think there's any evidence babies don't decompose as quickly as adults. But I don't know.

I DO know that looking on morgue information and coroner sites, decomp smell doesn't start right away. And my life experience backs that up.