GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[CCmakes3]

Thanks for pointing this out, it is def. not my intention to misinform.

I revised my post to refer to this mixup, so my error doesn't get carried forward through the thread.

I will repost fixed again tomorrow (330 am here).

Thanks figuring-- I am really looking forward to your edited post! I am sorry you got the "face palm" treatment for your honest mistake, lol. :facepalm:

 

[TorisMom003]

So is that the nitty gritty of it here? Those who are willing to be empathetic believe it could happen that Harris forgot this baby, and the others frankly just don't believe anyone could forget in his situation?

I think that's it. I would love to hear what people say who have very harsh feelings toward him. Do you simply NOT BELIEVE it's possible to forget a child in that situation, and so no amount of family support, friends support, a squeaky clean past, no evidence whatsoever from anyone anywhere that he was unhappy as a dad will get you past that core believe that it's simply impossible - unlike the head injured person - for Harris to have forgotten.

Snipped by me.

I personally do not, in any way shape or form, believe that a parent who normally takes their child to daycare every work day could forget that their child is in the car with them in a minutes time. Harris took Cooper out of the car, into CFA for breakfast with him, put him back in his carseat and immediately went to work "forgetting" Cooper was in the car before he even got out of the parking lot of CFA. It makes zero sense, IMO. Add to it the web search and it makes this case look even more like premeditated intentional murder of little Cooper Harris.

I have two children. One is 17, the other is 12. When my 17 year old was little (4 months to three years old) I worked full time and was a single mom. I never once forgot she was in the car with me. Not once. Forgot things like my watch, an extra change of clothes for her, things like that.....sure. But never forgot her. When my children were 7 and 2 I drove my 7 year old to school (I was and am still a stay at home mom). I had to walk the 7 year old to the front door of the school. It was a cold morning (winter time) so I had the heat on in the van with my 2 year old in a thick coat. I left the car running with my 2 year old in the car. I was six (max) steps from the front door of the school. I shut the front door and heard the locks engage in the van. I immediately began to freak out. Several people came to try and help to no avail. Called 911, had an officer come out, was told they no longer carry slim jims and could not help get the door open. The vice principal (sweet, kind caring man) got my VIN number, drove into town to the dealership to get a key made to open the door. It was about 30 mins before we got my daughter out of the van. In that time she was beet red, extremely hot and screaming. Needless to say I was a crying mess as well. That was 30 mins. In a car that was not 100* + temps. So no, I don't cut this man any slack. None at all.

MOO

 

[Spice]

Assuming that it is true that RH was charged with dropping cooper off at daycare everyday and Mom was charged with Picking him up, if this was their daily routine then...

What I still want to know:

1. Did Mom's plans change regarding picking up Cooper that day?
2. If so, why?

3. What was the conversation or change of plans between the parents.

3. Did Dad initiate the change? "I'll take him home today-You go do this" (Doesn't seem possible as he was supposedly on his way to meet friends for drinks after work)

4. Did Mom initiate the change? If so, Did Dad just take advantage of that as his chance to go through with murder?

5. Did Daycare call Mom when Cooper did not arrive?

6. Did Daycare call Dad when Cooper did not arrive? And Dad allowed it to go to VM or ignored it?

I still REALLY want to know what Mom's plans were that day, especially if they changed and why, and what the communication was between Mom and Dad. And any communication or attempted contact to or from the daycare. If any exists.

If RH "forgot" his son in the car....and 'discovered him choking" on his way to meet friends for drinks at 4:00 P.M...

Why didn't mom ever attempt to pick Cooper up at daycare that day? Why? What changed?

 

[tlcya]

JeannaT posed a question in post #450 to those who do not feel this was an accident or have harsh feelings toward the father in this case.

I feel accidents do happen and shared an occasion when I forget about a child, so I do believe it happens. I simply don't believe it happened in this case.

At first I believed he suspected he forgot the child in the car and therefore went out at noon and confirmed he had.

Now I question whether something far worse happened.

the 2nd degree charge requires that he be aware of his action and that they could cause death. I understand that you struggle with this because you genuinely feel he forgot (ie was unaware)

I simply cannot believe that to be true. Maybe initially but for the hours it took that child to die, then past the noon hour, past him returning and climbing into the vehicle with his baby's corpse, I just cannot get there. I have to bend what I consider to be reasonable too far in my mind to accept that this is accidental and therefore does not fit the charges.

 

[JudyBolton]

I am sure this has already been read and dissected, but I know we were having an active conversation about the service guests:



http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/30/justice/georgia-toddler-death/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

Thanks - I've been thinking this morning about the friends/family at the service and the clapping/standing ovation or whatever it was. Yesterday we discussed this and some stated that they felt many participated out of sheer peer pressure. I mean - how would it look to stay seated or refuse to politely clap when everyone around you was doing so....... A few said they would not participate but would sit quietly.

I feel IF ( and that is still a an IF) - there proves to be evidence of intent - how will these dear people feel? I know I would feel so angry and manipulated.

Also - Were there two instances during the service of applause? I remember someone (not the mom) talking to Ross via phone after applause and asking, "How does that sound?" and he said something like "Pretty good"? may not be exact words....was that when they were applauding Cooper or the dad?

Found this : "A family friend got on stage with Cooper’s mother and asked the crowd of nearly 200 people to give Ross Harris a round of applause. "
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/cobb-county-father-makes-jailhouse-call-sons-funer/ngT8H/

Can't find that "How does that sound?" link right now......

This is just on my heart this morning and really bothers me - TIA.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

At the 3 hour mark the baby could have been unconscious but still alive, I would think he would have known that (and having a severely brain damaged baby to support for the rest of his life probably wasn't the goal here).

Awful thought, but is it possible the child was still conscious at that point? Instead of choking maybe the child was still crying/calling out for him when he opened the door?

Wild thought here...

but could JRH have administered more sedating drug (Benadryl, etc.) to Cooper when he went to the car at mid day? (Keep him quiet, etc.)

We do not know what he put in the car...,and we do not know if he didn't see Cooper at that time...

:waitasec:

 

[ykw]

The comment from the mother about Cooper not having slept the previous two nights makes wonder if it was because he had been sleeping during the day?

I still think this wasn't the first time Cooper was left alone in a car. Maybe this was Day 3 of an experiment?

I guess we will find out if they find any internet searches for "what kind of medicine will make a 2 year old sleep for 8 hours"

Does anyone know how Home Depot Corporate charges its employees for day care? By the month? By the day?

jmo

 

[Violet1820]

Wild thought here...

but could JRH have administered more sedating drug (Benadryl, etc.) to Cooper when he went to the car at mid day? (Keep him quiet, etc.)

We do not know what he put in the car...,and we do not know if he didn't see Cooper at that time...

:waitasec:

If we are on wild thoughts...Could LH possibly be saying this "selfish world" and referring to RH? Would she not bring her child back to a selfish man who would do this to him? I wonder if RH is threatening her and telling her he can make sure that she is punished for the crime as well if she does not help him?

 

[oh_gal]

Hmmm. Well, I will say that I don't think a person should be eligible for the death penalty if there was literally no intent to harm or intent to commit a crime in their action.

There are varying degrees of culpability in the law when it comes to intent. And that goes all the way from slightly poor judgement, horribly poor judgement, to full on intent to cause harm or death. It's a gradient.

As I read this case and these charges, it looks to me, that these charges that include the death penalty could be assessed to someone who had no intent whatsoever to do any harm at all and absolutely no intent to commit a crime and no chance at "poor judgement" as they had made no judgements at all.

So. This discussion is bigger than this one case. My point is, that in a situation where it's very clear to ALL involved that a parent literally forgot their child in the back seat of the car, they could lawfully be charged the way Harris is being charged, and they could lawfully receive the death penalty although all involved - prosecutor, defense, LE, judge, jury all agree the person literally had forgotten the child until the child had passed away.

I am really uncomfortable with that.

So as an analogy, imagine a parent getting out of the car to get their child, closing their door, coming around to the child's door and falling and bumping their heads. Lying there unconscious for 15 minutes and then rousing in a completely confused way, wandering in to work being disoriented and meanwhile the poor child expires in the car.

No one in this discussion would fault that parent, IMHO. I think it would be a very very rare person who wouldn't empathize and give that parent a pass. Why? Because everyone believes it. They believe that parent could have lost that memory through a concussion.

So is that the nitty gritty of it here? Those who are willing to be empathetic believe it could happen that Harris forgot this baby, and the others frankly just don't believe anyone could forget in his situation?

I think that's it. I would love to hear what people say who have very harsh feelings toward him. Do you simply NOT BELIEVE it's possible to forget a child in that situation, and so no amount of family support, friends support, a squeaky clean past, no evidence whatsoever from anyone anywhere that he was unhappy as a dad will get you past that core believe that it's simply impossible - unlike the head injured person - for Harris to have forgotten.

(An aside, I wake myself up naturally in the morning at any time I want to, even at the crack of dawn, I have a perfect internal alarm clock. I don't use an alarm clock and never have. So I always have little patience with people who "oversleep" and miss things. Because somewhere in my mind I'm faulting them for doing it on purpose. I never do it. Why do these people need technology of an alarm or someone to come remind them to wake up? Same thing to me. I get forgetting something out of routine, I don't get people who can't remember to wake up.)

Anyway, Gitana, interesting question.

(above,bbm)
Oh, no...I totally think this could happen, as an accident. There would have to be a lot of things lined up, just so for that to occur, for me to buy it. I just don't think it was an accident in this case.

 

[tlcya]

I completely agree with your statement. Georgia isn't my state, but I am very surprised to be learning a state in the US can sentence a person to the death penalty when they believe the person had no intent to do harm. I know 100% of the posters remaining in this thread believe Harris to be guilty of intent, so I'm not talking about that specifically.

Is there no one else who is surprised or dismayed that a person could be executed for a crime they didn't realize or didn't intent to commit?

I too was very confused and surprised when I first started researching these charges. I was unaware til this case that GA has no degrees of murder, no involuntary manslaughter, etc. It is very cut dried and simplistic - you do something someone dies you can be charged with murder. without those degrees of mitigation. Very different from my own state.

But I do not feel that LE believes there was no intent to harm in this case. I think they wholeheartedly believe there WAS. I think they simply do not have enough evidence to charge it as premeditated and this is a workaround available and afforded to them by law in order to throw the book at him.

And before anyone asks, yes, I am okay with that. If there are those who would say that is unfair that is baloney, then I would ask those persons how many cases have you followed where you thought the accused was guilty and a clever DA managed to find a way to charge them and throw the book at them despite that task offering some challenges and despite them being unable to charge the person as heavily as you felt they should have been? Were you supportive of the DA and LE doing so in that case?

 

[Spellbound]

I've been mulling a thought and still don't know what to make of this. When my children were around 2 yrs old (and left alone in a car) they would have struggled to get out of a car seat, and likely would have managed it. If not, they would have cried and screamed and struggled and there should be obvious signs.

Was the child found serenely sitting in the seat still? Were there signs he had struggled? And if he did scream and struggle, was the car parked at work where others would walk by and hear a baby, thus peek inside?

JMO...but I am having a hard time believing either parent at this stage.

 

[1&2&3]

Did the mother usually pick the baby up at 2:00 pm?

What was the reason or excuse she did not pick him up on this day?

Father may have told daycare CH was sick and not coming. If mom normally picked him up, it would be a bit odd for dad to tell her not to that day that he would bring him home. And then dad told LE he was going to meet friends for drinks when he remembered CH in car seat. Right there shows changes in normal routine, planning, and premeditation. IMO

It looks to me like this man went to quite a bit of preplanning and advanced preparation for an accidental death!

My opinions only!

 

[Karmady]

I completely agree with your statement. Georgia isn't my state, but I am very surprised to be learning a state in the US can sentence a person to the death penalty when they believe the person had no intent to do harm. I know 100% of the posters remaining in this thread believe Harris to be guilty of intent, so I'm not talking about that specifically.

Is there no one else who is surprised or dismayed that a person could be executed for a crime they didn't realize or didn't intent to commit?

Not surprised, since the law is often kind of arbitrary that way. But I do think the death penalty is ridiculous for a crime that doesn't require any kind of malice whatsoever.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

the video states that "about 12 warrants have been released so far"

also another video I watched on cnn (will link shortly) says the probable cause hearing is set for Thursday of this week

Thanks, Nursie! :nurse:

So, the court hearing on July 3rd that has been referred to will be a Probable Cause Hearing...

 

[liltexans]

The comment from the mother about Cooper not having slept the previous two nights makes wonder if it was because he had been sleeping during the day?

I still think this wasn't the first time Cooper was left alone in a car. Maybe this was Day 3 of an experiment?

I guess we will find out if they find any internet searches for "what kind of medicine will make a 2 year old sleep for 8 hours"

Does anyone know how Home Depot Corporate charges its employees for day care? By the month? By the day?

jmo

Welcome to WS!

:wagon:

 

[RANCH]

per mod directive either this thread or last when the redditt account was discovered, we can discuss in general terms what we read of his postings and can paraphrase but no cut and paste and no linking. Sorry, running late getting ready for work or I would bump the mod post on it.

So we can discuss what is on redditt but no links to what is being discussed. I'll never find the posts over there. I like to read the source of information for myself. Looks like that's not going to happen in this case.

 

[Cherry]

I have felt from get go he gave him something at ChicFila, waiting on Tox now. The comments his wife has made are sickening to me. [modsnip] How dare she state at his funeral that this child would never experience his parents DEATH; and that she would have more children.[modsnip]

 

[tlcya]

not a problem RANCH I got your back.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Thanks - I've been thinking this morning about the friends/family at the service and the clapping/standing ovation or whatever it was. Yesterday we discussed this and some stated that they felt many participated out of sheer peer pressure. I mean - how would it look to stay seated or refuse to politely clap when everyone around you was doing so....... A few said they would not participate but would sit quietly.

I feel IF ( and that is still a an IF) - there proves to be evidence of intent - how will these dear people feel? I know I would feel so angry and manipulated.

Also - Were there two instances during the service of applause? I remember someone (not the mom) talking to Ross via phone after applause and asking, "How does that sound?" and he said something like "Pretty good"? may not be exact words....was that when they were applauding Cooper or the dad?

Found this : "A family friend got on stage with Cooper’s mother and asked the crowd of nearly 200 people to give Ross Harris a round of applause. "
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/cobb-county-father-makes-jailhouse-call-sons-funer/ngT8H/

Can't find that "How does that sound?" link right now......

This is just on my heart this morning and really bothers me - TIA.

I don't believe in the peer pressure excuse in this instance. If you thought Ross killed Cooper, you would not stand, and would not care about how it would look.

 

[georgiagirl]

I wonder if this was a legit concern for mom and he was trying to hurt her by killing the child in a manner she feared.


Always My Opinion Only!

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