GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[JudyBolton]

I never said that it's a lawful act. I said that I believe involuntary manslaughter,which is an unlawful act, fits this case better than felony murder.

JMO.

BUT the people who made this decision have much more information than we do (at this point). I still believe there is much more out there. I remind everyone of Randy Travis (local investigative reporter) who was replying to a person questioning treatment of Mr. Harris - "Sounds like you have strong opinion about the case - write back in a few weeks. Terrible details coming." BBM

Also - this was written AFTER the internet search information was revealed so I do not believe he was referring to that.

As in most cases - we will have to wait and see but I have that in the back of my mind as I put these snippets together.....

 

[nightwatch]

It's my opinion that he drove to the strip mall to have witnesses.

Yes indeed imo he knew if he went to the hospital there would have been a whole bunch of immediate questions to answer. Pulling into the strip mall he could draw people into his fake hysteria.

He had all day to rehearse in his mind I need help performance. His shouting what have I done. Rewind!! lunch time car visit. Jmo

ciao

 

[atthelake]

To me it seems cut and dried. GA law states if a death occurs during commission of the felony charge of child neglect/cruelty you are guilty of murder. So those debating whether there was premeditation or not are chasing their tales (JMO)

For those who feel like those charges are not appropriate their problem is with the law as written. If you don't like the laws and GA is your state, work to change them.

Not snark. It just seems to me that most people who object to the prosecution of this case have a problem with the GA law as written. Unless they want to argue that you can be unaware of the dangerous neglectful situation leaving your child in a hot car for 7 hours can cause. But the research admitted to by both parents will perfectly illustrate that these parents were extremely AWARE of those dangers. And yet that is what happened.

To be blunt, Cooper baked in that car, like a turkey in an oven all day. The child was literally slow cooked. I don't know how much more cruel or neglectful that could be.

Yes I do, two trips to the car, the one during lunch and the one after work. I just do not see how anyone can feel that a reasonable person would not have become aware of the child even if they believe (as I don't) that he did not know in the morning on leaving Cooper there.

MOO this man has been charged appropriately to the laws in the state he resides.

As to the charges being reduced. The magistrate told the DA and the investigators on the 1st degree child neglect/cruelty that they were;t quite there yet. They had plenty of evidence to charge him and continue investigating but they weren't quite there with 1st degree. This does not preclude them later bumping that charge up although I don't know why they would. The burden of proof is lesser on the 2nd degree charge and the sentence is the same (death or life). I see no "hard On" for Ross by LE. I see investigators shocked at the level of neglect it takes to leave a child to roast in your car all day after having researched that very "accident" because you feared it could happen and then visited your car twice during that day but claim not to have known your child was in it.

Again, all of this is JMO but the charges are completely appropriate for this crime.

:seeya: tlcya. Not to disagree with anything you have said...just adding a :drumroll: jury nullification as defense goal. This type of case is one which I would expect as high potential....but that is said of course without knowing ANY of the TRUE EVIDENCE the state may submit. IYKWIM This case is very local to me and have followed from first day

 

[oh_gal]

Well, this article clearly states the applause was for Ross.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/cobb-county-father-makes-jailhouse-call-sons-funer/ngT8H/

Sickening.

I don't know where I read (originally) that is was for the baby.

 

[Hyrax]

How so? Explain how leaving a child unattended in a car - even inadvertently - is a lawful act.

A lawful act can still be the basis of an involuntary manslaughter charge, if the act is likely to cause death or serious bodily harm:

(b) A person commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner when he causes the death of another human being without any intention to do so, by the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner likely to cause death or great bodily harm. A person who commits the offense of involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act in an unlawful manner, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

Under certain facts, a negligent act can amount to "in an unlawful manner."

Additionally, felony murder is a death that occurs during the course of a felony, usually when the death was not an intended or desired outcome of the felony -- e.g., a defendant robs a bank and lies about having a weapon, and a security guard shoots at the defendant, but misses and kills a bystander instead. The defendant could be charged with felony murder, despite the fact the death could, in some sense, be described as an "accident."

 

[RANCH]

I do believe that when it is a believed that a baby or child is the victim of homicide.....then it is automatically felony murder.

I'm not sure about Georgia but I do remember that in Caylee's case.

The murder of a child is considered egregious......hence the felony. And the COD has been stated as hypothermia in the manner of homicide.

Not accidental death.

Not all homicides are murder. Homicide is the killing of a human being by another human being.

To begin with, not all homicides are crimes. Homicides include all killings of humans. Many homicides, such as murder and manslaughter, violate criminal laws. Others, such as a killing committed in justified self-defense, are not criminal. Illegal killings range from manslaughter to murder, with multiple degrees of each representing the gravity of the crime.

See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/homicide-definition.html#sthash.pgJsQyvD.dpuf

 

[oh_gal]

I must admit I have considered this possiblity but the thing is, while tox is not back COD was physiologically determined at autopsy to have been hyperthermia, death by extreme heat.

MOD is homicide or not but COD was determined without doubt to have been hyperthermia. So when did Cooper die in the hot car if not that day? If he was met by mom at CFA to hand over a dead child to place in the car seat when did he die? Because autopsy supports he died that day in that car?

I, too, had the thought that perhaps the baby was dead before being placed in the car (like, maybe something happened at home) by the mom (that might explain LE saying they can't confirm he was in the car during CFA run)...but it just seemed so incredible to me, I didn't post it.

 

[MissJ]

The warrants do not disclose when the searches took place. Criminal defense attorney Steve Sadow, who is not directly involved with the case, said that information could be crucial.

"We don't know the context or the timing that these searches took place," Sadow said. "Let's assume there was some event the parents saw several weeks ago dealing with the death of a child and they just decided to go up on the internet."

"That's different than if it's 24 to 48 hours before the incident occurred, which makes it look too coincidental."

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/2014/06/30/police-mom-hot-car-death/11759815/

I would agree with what he said except normal, innocent people wouldn't look up how long it would take for an animal or child to die, That to me spells intent of something.:moo:

 

[RANCH]

BUT the people who made this decision have much more information than we do (at this point). I still believe there is much more out there. I remind everyone of Randy Travis (local investigative reporter) who was replying to a person questioning treatment of Mr. Harris - "Sounds like you have strong opinion about the case - write back in a few weeks. Terrible details coming." BBM

Also - this was written AFTER the internet search information was revealed so I do not believe he was referring to that.

As in most cases - we will have to wait and see but I have that in the back of my mind as I put these snippets together.....

In my opinion LE sometimes overcharge suspects. I'm not saying that I know for sure that is the case here. I may change my mind when we learn more. The hints from the reporter are interesting but not something that I will hang my hat on at this point.

JMO.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I agree:twocents: I also wonder how her "computer searches" statement will play out in the warrant (in other words did they see his call history and then get a warrant to interview her or did it happen some other way?)

it could also be that they used her statement to get a warrant to search his work computer? I sure wish they could release the hard copies. It is all very confusing at this point. Surly much more will come out at the P-cause hearing on thursday as they will have to show enough to hold him over for trial for the outstanding charges (but not too much to tip their hand to the defense before the discovery process starts). In my experience p-cause hearings are bare bones but in terms of the total case but offer much more than what we know before the p-cause hearing (if that made sense at all! LOL)

Makes sense to me, Nursie! :thumb:

I am learning the Probable Cause Hearings must be navigated following a very fine line... Showing enough evidence to prove there is a case... But not showing too much to give the defense "ammunition"...

I am very curious regarding the outcome of the hearing on Thursday...

:judge:

 

[Sonya610]

Me too. Sure has been quiet. Not a lot of folks running for a camera or microphone.

Well you have to consider the entities involved here, the daycare and the co-workers are all "Home Depot" and you can be sure they want to close ranks and not say anything that can make the corporation look bad or come off like the employees belong on Jerry Springer.

The other entity is Chick-fil-A and likewise, the employees there would have the good sense to keep QUIET.

 

[NancyA]

My thought was that if he was covering, that he was ALONE at Chick-Fil-A

All just MOO and speculation!!

Respectfully snipped - my thinking re the Chick-Fil-A stop - if it turns out to be a one off and not a regular thing - was if he intended to murder Cooper the death-by-hot-car route, this would be a manufactured 'out-of-routine' event. I'm sure in his research he would have turned up at least a few references to common denominators in hot car deaths one of them being the out of routine factor and since taking Cooper to daycare wasn't out of routine....

 

[atthelake]

BUT the people who made this decision have much more information than we do (at this point). I still believe there is much more out there. I remind everyone of Randy Travis (local investigative reporter) who was replying to a person questioning treatment of Mr. Harris - "Sounds like you have strong opinion about the case - write back in a few weeks. Terrible details coming." BBM

Also - this was written AFTER the internet search information was revealed so I do not believe he was referring to that.

As in most cases - we will have to wait and see but I have that in the back of my mind as I put these snippets together.....

I am familiar with the LE quote as to (paraphrasing) most horrific I've seen as father/grandfather/LE.... but with Randy, reminds me of Nancy Grace. In that Randy's picked up on the LE quote and run with it for his own header. "Bombshell tonight" like Nancy...or even with this case on HLN just a few days ago as to a story that they had headlines/teaser for their show...and nuthin'. Didn't meet expectations of what they were exclaiming. Sorry, there are just *some* investigative reporters here in Atlanta that are...well...............yeah Mr. Travis, whatever the details are...they are gonna be terrible...so your comment is a win win I guess.

 

[MissJ]

I just cannot fathom what kind of people give a killer a round of applause at his victim's funeral. Poor little Cooper, who was thinking of him besides us? His own mother said she wouldn't bring him back if she could. Just wow.

 

[octobermoon]

Well you have to consider the entities involved here, the daycare and the co-workers are all "Home Depot" and you can be sure they want to close ranks and not say anything that can make the corporation look bad.

The other entity is Chick-fil-A and likewise, the employees there would have the good sense to keep QUIET.

That's true, but figured one or two would become anonymous sources on HLN or some tabloid newspaper by now. Although I want to know more, I think it is better for justice for people to stay out of the news before trial.

 

[NancyA]

I would agree with what he said except normal, innocent people wouldn't look up how long it would take for an animal or child to die, That to me spells intent of something.:moo:

Well, clearly it wasn't an intent to take preventative measures since neither parent did.

 

[JudyBolton]

Well, this article clearly states the applause was for Ross.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/cobb-county-father-makes-jailhouse-call-sons-funer/ngT8H/

Sickening.

I don't know where I read (originally) that is was for the baby.

Found it!

"Earlier a family member had come on to the stage and asked the audience to join him in a round of applause for baby Cooper. After the claps slowed, the man said: 'Hey Ross that sounded pretty good.'
To which Ross responded: 'Yes it did.'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ched-child-deaths-vehicles.html#ixzz368Z3rofw


So there were two (at least) instances of applause at the funeral. If anyone can explain to me what that means - "That sounded pretty good" - please do. The applause was for the baby - why ask Ross about it? Just an attempt to include him? Just a way to imply that he was somehow being supported by the applause for his dead child?
Sorry - but it sounds like the funeral was about 25% about Cooper and about 75% about Ross

 

[Spice]

Not all homicides are murder. Homicide is the killing of a human being by another human being.



See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/homicide-definition.html#sthash.pgJsQyvD.dpuf

Huh? The very definition of the word homicide is:

the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.
"he was charged with homicide"
synonyms: murder, killing, slaughter, butchery, massacre.

Homicide is murder.

If you are speaking in terms of the legal definition of homicide then.. I hear you. If you are saying that all homicides are not premeditated and occur during moments of self defense or "crimes of passion" or during psychotic breaks okay.

The terms murder and homicide are frequently interchanged; however, there is a difference between the two. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person, sometimes with premeditation (a plan to kill).

Manslaughter is another type of criminal homicide.

Homicides are criminal, excusable, or justifiable. A criminal homicide is unjustifiable, with consequences being severe. An excusable or justifiable homicide is one without criminal intent to kill someone. Examples of excusable or justifiable homicide would be someone killing someone else as a means of self defense, or defending another person, or law enforcement who kills someone in the line of duty.

A strong murder defense and investigative tactics can only help your case. Likewise, if you or a family member was falsely accused of murder or homicide, there is a lot at stake. Find a law firm who has a proven track record for successfully defending accused murderers.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/felonie...legal-difference-between-murder-homicide.html

The police believe that this is CRIMINAL homicide. Hence the felony murder charge. Which was my original point.

 

[Jlr]

Trying to catch up some, I've been in the hospital and haven't read every link.
What are the chances that Cooper had a mental disability or his parents thought he was behind? Maybe that's what his mother was referring to at his service. The talk of a selfish world, not having to deal with awkward times, and problems in jr. high and high school.Is it possible they thought he was better off, and this was a painless way for him to go?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The comment from the mother about Cooper not having slept the previous two nights makes wonder if it was because he had been sleeping during the day?

I still think this wasn't the first time Cooper was left alone in a car. Maybe this was Day 3 of an experiment?

I guess we will find out if they find any internet searches for "what kind of medicine will make a 2 year old sleep for 8 hours"

Does anyone know how Home Depot Corporate charges its employees for day care? By the month? By the day?

jmo

:welcome: Ykw!

Interesting question whether there had been any other "experiments" researched and conducted by the parents on Cooper... (I.e.... Drug effects on sleep...)

:seeya: