GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[Sonya610]

I wonder about the "watch your mouth" comment.

I wonder if that was a cop admonishing him about watch your statements. He hadn't been mirandized.

Just a thought.

He started "cursing and screaming" at officers at the scene when they asked him questions and his responses "did not make sense".

That is probably why they told him to "watch your mouth".

Mentioned in video below at about the 1 min mark.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/25/atlanta-hot-car-death-justin-harris

 

[JeannaT]

Now imagine that very carseat being in the middle....RH's CUV would have had the seat pushed back for his height. The car seat would have been at his elbow. My CUV is the same size.:moo:

That girl seems excessively tall for that car seat.

While I think we could run through pictures of kids who could or could not be seen from the driver side of the car, what's more important is, specifically could Cooper have been seen. For as big as his father is, Cooper looks small to me. I've seen a pic of him in his seat and he looks much smaller than the girl in that photo with her very long legs.

 

[JudyBolton]

I am not satisfied in my mind about the choking statement. I've read it both ways--first that RH said the baby was just choking. Then that a witness said he/she thought the baby was choking when he was pulled out of the car. So, I'm not sure which of these reports are true if either.

This article has a lot of witness information - including photos of the witnesses and more detailed information than I had previously read.

About the choking: " But instead of confessing to the tragic blunder – and admitting his baby had been dead for hours – it has been claimed Harris tried to cover his tracks by telling members of the public the child had just been choking."

Eyewitness Edward Cockerham, 49, told MailOnline: ‘I was interviewed by the police last night and I told them I thought the guy was acting, he was really over-reacting to the situation.
'I know he had lost his baby but he was acting up more than he should have been. It seemed like acting to me. When he pulled in and people started asking him what had happened, he said that the baby had just started choking.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ake-supporters-think-twice.html#ixzz368lEvonS

 

[who knew?]

From what I've read, they've all been told to keep their mouths shut by LE. I'm always a little surprised when people actually DO that, because LE can't issue a gag order.

I think - could be wrong - that within a few days there will be an agency that comes forward to advocate publicly for them. Maybe through their church, or lawyer.

I halfway expected leaks because the friends tell their spouses/partners - then they tell their best friend, who tells their friends..... And before long it's not a secret anymore. It's also not the same story that was told in the beginning.

 

[ykw]

:welcome: Ykw!

Interesting question whether there had been any other "experiments" researched and conducted by the parents on Cooper... (I.e.... Drug effects on sleep...)

:seeya:

I'm still inclined to think Cooper's death wasn't premeditated, but just the result of extreme negligence from a father trying to save money on day care expenses by using the car as a babysitter.

We haven't heard anyone from Home Depot day care comment on whether Cooper was expected at day care on Wednesday, June 18.

This gets back to my question -- does anyone know whether Home Depot employees who use corporate day care are charged by the month, the day, or the pay period?

For example, I'm paid twice a month -- on the 15th and the last day of the month. June 16th was the start of a new pay period. June 18th was the third day into my latest pay period.

It's the only way I can make the pieces fit --

• it explains the internet searches (how hot does it have to be?)
• the mother's statement that Cooper hadn't slept the past two nights (sedated to sleep during the day?)
• why RH checked the car at lunch (thought Cooper was still asleep?)
• RH headed for home instead of day care (RH thinks smell is a soiled diaper, but LH will deal with that at home shortly)
• "What have I done?" (three days of Russian roulette)

jmo

 

[DesertDreamer]

That girl seems excessively tall for that car seat.

While I think we could run through pictures of kids who could or could not be seen from the driver side of the car, what's more important is, specifically could Cooper have been seen. For as big as his father is, Cooper looks small to me. I've seen a pic of him in his seat and he looks much smaller than the girl in that photo with her very long legs.

I'd like to know how tall Cooper was and what model of car seat was being used, those would be the best way to compare. The photos I posted were not meant to do that.

Also, the photos I posted were not to compare with Cooper, they were directly in response to the question of:

I am unable to even visualizes rear facing toddler car seat with a toddler in it. Where do their legs go????

I was posting to show where toddlers put their legs in rear facing car seats. That is all.


ETA: Also, I think for the rear facing it's not always about height, but weight. The girl in the pic might be tall, but she might be in the weight range recommended for rear facing. Again, posting her photos was not to compare to Cooper, just showing Linda7NJ where older kids put their legs.

 

[matou]

If he popped the rear door/trunk, he would have seen Cooper.

 

[Sonya610]

I'm still inclined to think Cooper's death wasn't premeditated, but just the result of extreme negligence from a father trying to save money on day care expenses by using the car as a babysitter.

If the car windows had been left partly down I might consider this theory.

There is simply no way anyone would intentionally leave a kid or animal in the car with the windows rolled UP and the engine off in this weather UNLESS they were trying to kill them.

 

[popsicle]

He started "cursing and screaming" at officers at the scene when they asked him questions and his responses "did not make sense".

That is probably why they told him to "watch your mouth".

Mentioned in video below at about the 1 min mark.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/06/25/atlanta-hot-car-death-justin-harris

Thank you... I thought that's what I heard early on.

 

[MissJ]

That girl seems excessively tall for that car seat.

While I think we could run through pictures of kids who could or could not be seen from the driver side of the car, what's more important is, specifically could Cooper have been seen. For as big as his father is, Cooper looks small to me. I've seen a pic of him in his seat and he looks much smaller than the girl in that photo with her very long legs.

I wasn't talking about the girl...just the size of the CUV and the facts that the car seat was in the middle and RH is much taller than me. I can see the car seat out of the corner of my eye when the car seat is in the middle. RH would have been much closer to the car seat and able to look down at it. I can see my nephew's head (top of) when he is in the middle.

 

[Judicious1]

Now imagine that very carseat being in the middle....RH's CUV would have had the seat pushed back for his height. The car seat would have been at his elbow. My CUV is the same size.:moo:

That first boy (closer up) looks 3- Cooper seems like he was closer to the little guys size in background. I still don't think he would have seen him and is probably was used to the touching of his elbow or seat so that doesn't makes an issue for me. None of this takes away from if it was planned. Only helps the defense say it was an accident. When these accidents have happened nothing is different from their day to day actions inside the car in my research. its been attributed to change in routine or an additional stress factor that morning. Now if they just put him in the center to give more room for his legs or for the passenger not to have to be crammed in the front that would stand out to me.

 

[JudyBolton]

If the car windows had been left partly down I might consider this theory.

There is simply no way anyone would intentionally leave a kid or animal in the car with the windows rolled UP and the engine off in this weather UNLESS they were trying to kill them.

But also if the windows were open - it would increase the chance that a passer-by might hear him crying.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If the car windows had been left partly down I might consider this theory.

There is simply no way anyone would intentionally leave a kid or animal in the car with the windows rolled UP and the engine off in this weather UNLESS they were trying to kill them.

Using the car to save money on daycare when he knew the danger...the felony murder charge, again, fits like a glove. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Minette]

The merry-go-round continues, I see! Two things:

-- The search warrants(s) state that both parents admitting searching for deaths of children in hot cars. There is no mention of searching for animal deaths in any official LE document released to date. The animal bit came from an Atlanta reporter who said he was told by two LE sources of a disturbing search history found on the father's computer. Were the LEOs misquoted? Did they deliberately leak the wrong info? Did they say 'RH searched for hot car deaths and the reporter made the wrong assumption?' I don't know, and I don't honestly see that it is relevant now that we know the FACTS. If you are looking for a horrifying search history isn't searching for deaths of children in hot cars horrifying enough without including animals? I don't get it.

--The murder statute in Georgia has been linked several times and has been stated multiple times, does not require intent for a murder charge to be brought when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. Criminal child neglect in the 2nd degree is a felony and it doesn't require intent, either. Maybe you disagree with the law, but if you were to serve on this jury the judge would instruct you to ignore intent when determining whether these two crimes were committed.

 

[Judicious1]

If he popped the rear door/trunk, he would have seen Cooper.

Without knowing the object or the size there is no way to know if the trunk or rear door would have made more sense to open.

 

[JeannaT]

The merry-go-round continues, I see! Two things:

-- The search warrants(s) state that both parents admitting searching for deaths of children in hot cars. There is no mention of searching for animal deaths in any official LE document released to date. The animal bit came from an Atlanta reporter who said he was told by two LE sources of a disturbing search history found on the father's computer. Were the LEOs misquoted? Did they deliberately leak the wrong info? Did they say 'RH searched for hot car deaths and the reporter made the wrong assumption?' I don't know, and I don't honestly see that it is relevant now that we know the FACTS. If you are looking for a horrifying search history isn't searching for deaths of children in hot cars horrifying enough without including animals? I don't get it.

--The murder statute in Georgia has been linked several times and has been stated multiple times, does not require intent for a murder charge to be brought when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. Criminal child neglect in the 2nd degree is a felony and it doesn't require intent, either. Maybe you disagree with the law, but if you were to serve on this jury the judge would instruct you to ignore intent when determining whether these two crimes were committed.

Thanks, Minette. That observation has been made a couple times upthread, and I'm still surprised by it. And a judge can instruct all they want, and jurors will still entertain thoughts in their heads that go unspoken. That's why there are surprise verdicts that clearly don't fit the evidence. Jury pardon.

 

[Cinnamon]

I am unable to even visualizes rear facing toddler car seat with a toddler in it. Where do their legs go????



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TY, Linda7NJ. :loveyou: I've been wondering the same thing, but felt too stupid to ask. :blushing: Before following this case, I wasn't even aware of rear-facing child seats. In my defense, I don't have kids. I do have a step-son, but he was 4-years-old when I first met my husband, so I've only had experience with forward-facing child seats. I learn so much here!

 

[JudyBolton]

That first boy (closer up) looks 3- Cooper seems like he was closer to the little guys size in background. I still don't think he would have seen him and is probably was used to the touching of his elbow or seat so that doesn't makes an issue for me. None of this takes away from if it was planned. Only helps the defense say it was an accident. When these accidents have happened nothing is different from their day to day actions inside the car in my research. its been attributed to change in routine or an additional stress factor that morning. Now if they just put him in the center to give more room for his legs or for the passenger not to have to be crammed in the front that would stand out to me.

As Dad is tall - I wonder if putting the seat in the center also allowed both of them more room - (dad could adjust seat further back) - which would also put dad even closer to car seat....

IF this goes to trial - I imagine there will be all sorts of re-enactments using car seat, rear view mirror, may even jury trips to see distance from Chick-fil-a to H.D. parking lot.....

 

[RANCH]

The Police are saying HE KNEW THE BABY WAS IN THE CAR! That is why he is charged with murder.

If they thought it was an ACCIDENT and he DIDN'T KNOW they wouldn't charge him with murder.

I understand that. I'm not sure that I agree with the police at this point.

 

[MissJ]

The merry-go-round continues, I see! Two things:

-- The search warrants(s) state that both parents admitting searching for deaths of children in hot cars. There is no mention of searching for animal deaths in any official LE document released to date. The animal bit came from an Atlanta reporter who said he was told by two LE sources of a disturbing search history found on the father's computer. Were the LEOs misquoted? Did they deliberately leak the wrong info? Did they say 'RH searched for hot car deaths and the reporter made the wrong assumption?' I don't know, and I don't honestly see that it is relevant now that we know the FACTS. If you are looking for a horrifying search history isn't searching for deaths of children in hot cars horrifying enough without including animals? I don't get it.

--The murder statute in Georgia has been linked several times and has been stated multiple times, does not require intent for a murder charge to be brought when a death occurs during the commission of a felony. Criminal child neglect in the 2nd degree is a felony and it doesn't require intent, either. Maybe you disagree with the law, but if you were to serve on this jury the judge would instruct you to ignore intent when determining whether these two crimes were committed.

"Does not require intent" is why I don't understand why people think this should be involuntary manslaughter charge. Thanks.