GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[JeannaT]

Exactly.
People need to remember that nobody on the scene was fooled. Not the witnesses and not the police. They all immediately knew the father was not being truthful.

I don't know about "fooled" but yes, there were plenty of witnesses who said they believed him.

One said it would be impossible to fake that level of grief.

Go back through the media thread. The media now seems to want to focus on skeptics, but there were witnesses who clearly believed it.

 

[JeannaT]

with all due respect, neither a burp nor a fart resembles choking.

JMO

Yes it does! A rumbling burp could certainly be described as "choking" especially if the baby aspirated vomit prior to death. It would sound exactly like choking.

 

[Figuring]

Is there a firehouse within close proximity to where he stopped?

Goodness, yes, the Smyrna Fire Station #3 is the same distance as the Pizza Shop, just a left turn instead of a right...

Does this map link work?

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Home+Depot+Inc,+2455+Paces+Ferry+Road+Southeast+%2320,+Atlanta,+GA+30339,+United+States/Smyrna+Fire+Station+Number+3,+2825+Park+Rd,+Smyrna,+GA+30080,+United+States/2955+Cobb+Pkwy+SE,+Atlanta,+GA+30339,+USA/@33.8746714,-84.4817452,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x88f51087d428889d:0xdc88cce7eeb3e5df!2m2!1d-84.481366!2d33.86539!1m5!1m1!1s0x88f510f76d081a79:0xaf1ae2a3141fdaaa!2m2!1d-

 

[believe09]

I posted a link back where early stages of decomposition were discussed, and one of the common things that happens in the hours prior to death is corpses burp and fart, often causing them to lurch a little.

Gross.

But really, it's believable he heard a choking sound. All this stuff - that sounds outrageous and unbelievable - isn't.

I think you meant hours after death?

Voiding is common before or during death-bloat which is what I think you might be referring to, certainly comes later.

The smell in that car, either way, must have been overwhelming.

 

[ReginaPhalange]

I agree he may not have been going anywhere, but I'll bet they had good reason to arrest -- and they could have had good reason to separate Ross from Leanna AND separate him from all electronics or any other evidence as quickly as possible. Perhaps they could have waited to have "a smoking gun" but after the altercation in the parking lot were concerned that some of the evidence might be disposed of and/or it would give him more time to straighten out his story.

All of THIS! ^^^^
Agree so much that thanks button was not enough.

 

[keeponsearching]

His height would have actually interfered with his ability to see his child while standing close enough to his car to place something on the driver's seat. A small child would have a better vantage than someone towering over the car.

I kind imagine him leaning down to put something in, did he just stand straight and drop something on the seat? At this point IDK

 

[JeannaT]

I want to know this as well.




Respectfully snipped and bolded by me. I think you misunderstand some of our sentiments.

It's not that we don't believe it could happen, it COULD Happen. You know what else could happen?

• 
  A child finds a key and sticks it into an electrical socket and electrocutes themselves.
  
  A child walks out the front door of their home and wanders into traffic and gets hit by a car
  
  A child tips head first into a toilet and drowns
  
  A child falls down a flight of stairs and breaks his neck
  
  A child gets into medicine left out and over doses on drugs
  
  A child gets into cleaning supplies and dies from drinking bleach
  
  A child tries to pull on the television set and topples the entire thing onto themselves
  
  A child stumbles and falls into an opened dishwasher door and impales themselves on knives
  
  A child walks up to the stove and pulls a pot of boiling water onto themselves and suffers third degree burns

Any number of these things could ALSO happen. But when they do we hold the parent entirely responsible for not watching their child.

RSBM

I don't know if people "hold parents responsible" in their own heads when these cases happen, but in the situations you listed parents are almost never charged with neglect. Unless of course, this situation happened in a case where the parent would have been charged with neglect even if NOTHING happened to the child (being left alone in a house, mother chronically sleeping while children are awake, etc.)

In the cases you listed, if the supervision is generally adequate and an awake and alert parent was in the home there is almost never a finding of criminal responsibility.

 

[Karmady]

The OP said "I doubt having numerous character witnesses is going to hurt him." S/He did not say that character witnesses would hurt him, but that they would NOT hurt him (i.e. would HELP him).

No. That's what *I* said in my response to the OP. Here's what the OP said - that the pros could turn the fact that there are character witnesses to the State's advantage somehow. I disagreed. :seeya:

~bbm (from the OP)

I'm thinking about possible defense strategies. IMO the facts lead to premeditated. The only thing I can see going for the defense at this point is character witnesses that say he was a great dad. Personally, if I were the prosecutor I would turn that against him. The fact that everybody around him has so many great things to say about his parenting shows me that he didn't just forget his son. A great parent puts their child first, no matter what. He has spent almost 2 years being a great parent. That would be his routine, it would come naturally to him to NOT forget his child. Added to the facts of this case and I fully believe that fact goes against him, not for him, when looked at deeper than just the surface. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

His height would have actually interfered with his ability to see his child while standing close enough to his car to place something on the driver's seat. A small child would have a better vantage than someone towering over the car.

There was no way he could have avoided seeing or hearing his son in the short ride to his office.

Trying to excuse why he didn't see him when he returned to the car at lunch isn't going to fly with a judge or jury. There simply is no believable reason he didn't know his son was in the car on the way to the office after they ate.

JMO

 

[chlban]

Exactly.
People need to remember that nobody on the scene was fooled. Not the witnesses and not the police. They all immediately knew the father was not being truthful.

That, in itself, seems pretty amazing. I mean generally you would give a parent a pretty wide range of emotions in a situation like this. A cold response would likely be more telling than an overemotional one.

Makes you wonder just how bad his acting must have been.

 

[believe09]

link to one of the overwhelming odor reports http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/clip/10303559/child-death-investigation

I missed this. Seals it for me, but I realize others will need more information.

I cant think of a single thing that would explain away the search prior to his death and biodad's inability to smell the interior of the car. Even if LE had nothing else. The windows weren't down in the back when he parked post "discovery" were they?

Yeah, that lunch time trip to the car....thank goodness it was witnessed.

 

[Tawny]

I wonder if the police on the scene had dashboard cameras running. It would be interesting to see what behavior it was that led to people questioning his reaction.

 

[nursebeeme]

Good Morning Everyone. Seems you all had a busy night, early morning.

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Salem

:bump: folks pay particular attention to power posting above ^^^^.

 

[JeannaT]

There was no way he could have avoided seeing or hearing his son in the short ride to his office.

Trying to excuse why he didn't see him when he returned to the car at lunch isn't going to fly with a judge or jury. There simply is no believable reason he didn't know his son was in the car on the way to the office after they ate.

JMO

I raised three boys. I'd say there is EVERY chance the child sat back there quietly for the ride to daycare. After he buckled him in, it's quite believable he never saw him, either.

I wonder if people who think kids babble all the time had been parents of little girls? They do seem more verbal - although this sweetie could speak clearly it's not clear he talked non-stop.

Here's the deal. When i look at a case where someone is claiming innocence, and think, "is that possible, what he is saying?"

In this case, yes to everything.

"Is it possible the child, after being strapped in to the carseat sat quietly for the few minutes it took to get to work"? yes
"Is it possible the dad didn't have a clear visual on the child both getting out of his car, putting something in the seat at noon, and then getting into the car at 4?" yes
"Is it possible that both parents had discussed their fear of hot cars and each had googled for more information, sensing they were at risk?" yes
"Is it possible daycare never reached him that day?" yes (this will turn out to be a verified fact, either daycare reached him or didn't
"Is it possible that he forgot the baby was in the car after strapping him in?" yes. Otherwise, it wouldn't be common. What is uncommon is for the forgetting to last so long the child passes away

In other cases, I start the same way. Is what the accused is saying possible in each case? In the case of Danielle Van Dam, I hit the wall with "is it possible the accused coincidentally drove all the way out to that remote spot exactly where her remains were found out in a jungly mess, states away from where she went missing, where he got stuck and had to have his car pulled out by a wrecker". No. No that's not possible it's a coincidence.

That's what I want to see in this case. Something that's not possible.

 

[Davia18]

Argh this is so frustrating. I tried to see what Leanna said at the funeral and then what Ross said to but it is in pieces. What I did see was not the normal thing I would of read.

No way did he not see his son in that car seat, at the time he came back. I drive a jeep Cherokee and I think it is larger, and I am short, Ross looks tall. There is no way at all that he didn't see Cooper in that car seat. Especially if it was in the middle.

I would not be able to forgive my husband, and he wouldn't be able to forgive himself either. That right there is a turn our lives upside down moment. Not after having a baby. It wouldn't be about us, it would be about the baby. Not about the supporters.

All if this seems so fishy.

BBM : Yep sadly I would be so devastated my marriage most likely wouldn't make it. I'd understand it was an accident, I'd forgive but don't think my marriage would hold up JMO

 

[newone]

link to one of the overwhelming odor reports http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/clip/10303559/child-death-investigation

I don't know about "fooled" but yes, there were plenty of witnesses who said they believed him.

One said it would be impossible to fake that level of grief.

Go back through the media thread. The media now seems to want to focus on skeptics, but there were witnesses who clearly believed it.

yes I remember the young bartender ((lady with glasses)) who described his grief -- she refrained from making judgment when asked directly.

There was also a young man who was deeply convinced that JRH was truly grief stricken.

Those were two that I recall.

I think this is one of those moments where a group of witnesses each remember it differently.

 

[Tawny]

I raised three boys. I'd say there is EVERY chance the child sat back there quietly for the ride to daycare. After he buckled him in, it's quite believable he never saw him, either.

I wonder if people who think kids babble all the time had been parents of little girls? They do seem more verbal - although this sweetie could speak clearly it's not clear he talked non-stop.

I think it depends on a lot of factors whether the kid was chattering or silent. I have a girl and sometimes it's non-stop chattering and other days she sits quietly watching the cars go by.

Ugh, the thought of this little man doing either on his ride to that parking lot tears me up. So innocent

 

[otto]

Has there been any explanation for why the father forgot not only to drop off his son at daycare, but why he also forgot to pick him up from daycare? Did he forget that he had a son, or did he believe that his wife was picking him up? How did he forget completely about picking him up as well? According to the father, he was on his way to meet friends when he suddenly discovered his son in his car, so he also forgot to pick him up.

 

[MyBelle]

RSBM

I don't know if people "hold parents responsible" in their own heads when these cases happen, but in the situations you listed parents are almost never charged with neglect. Unless of course, this situation happened in a case where the parent would have been charged with neglect even if NOTHING happened to the child (being left alone in a house, mother chronically sleeping while children are awake, etc.)

In the cases you listed, if the supervision is generally adequate and an awake and alert parent was in the home there is almost never a finding of criminal responsibility.

BBM. It always depends on what the investigation turns up just as there has been an investigation in this case. In the situations described which result in harm to a child, there always is an investigation.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

Has there been any explanation for why the father forgot not only to drop off his son at daycare, but why he also forgot to pick him up from daycare? Did he forget that he had a son, or did he believe that his wife was picking him up? How did he forget completely about picking him up as well?

It's been stated that the mom usually picks the kiddo up from daycare. (ETA: I say "it's been stated" because I've seen others say it, not in a snarky way! I read it again and was like "that sounds snarky")