GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[JeannaT]

No it doesn't. What I'm saying is that there are many people out there who don't look at things logically. They are swept along by irrational ideas and emotional bias and personal sympathies etc. None of it it reasonable IMO.

But these types use it to define "REASONABLE DOUBT" Like talking about someone having a premonition. There is no such thing as a premonition. But many people will feel that they've had one and will be swayed by superstition. For example I bet a lot of people are afraid to judge this man too harshly for fear if they do their "karma" will bite them on the butt and something bad will happen to one of their own kids.

What I'm saying is that the DA should not press ideas in the court room unless it is in rebuttal to the Defense's arguments. Eventually you will see the defense pleading a very emotional highly sensationalized case with little evidence.

If we look at Casey Anthony we see that her Defense Team suggested that her father sexually molested her. They offered no proof whatsoever. Then they spun it to make it look like her father had something to do with the child's death. This is what got Casey Anthony off.

In this case, what he smelled, how he acted, how his wife acted at the funeral, what he was "thinking" etc his religious beliefs, etc etc etc. All create irrational illogical reasonable doubt to people for whom "reason" is a very foreign concept.

It's like the same kind of people who think that because someone is a church going man who was nice to people, he couldn't commit murder, even though that's been turned over and over throughout the years.

We need to be careful to not tap into emotional illogical bias.

That's why I think the case should be focused at it's core on the facts and timeline and phone records etc. Not "what we think"

I don't think anyone in my real life would ever accuse me of being "illogical". Exactly the opposite, to a fault.

I look at things and turn then each different way to discover the truth, using logic.

And I'm willing to concede reasonable doubt - even if it doesn't fit the most likely scenario that I believe might have happened in any given case. In court, it's called reasonable doubt. In other places it's called "the benefit of the doubt". Most people don't operate that way, but go by preponderance of the evidence. Which is not how criminal court is set up - it's how civil court is set up.

 

[jmcgladr]

Great article packed with facts, if it is accurate info. Along with other things mentioned, it was the passenger's side door that he opened at lunch.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html


More family pictures are here:

http://hollywoodlife.com/pics/justi...oss-cooper-harris-researched-baby-deaths-ftr/

Thanks for the Daily Mail article and pictures. Just a correction, the Daily Mail article says he opened the driver's side door, just like every other article I've read. It says, however, that he put something in the front passenger seat.

*** and it's saying my message is too short? Is this a new thing?***

 

[JeannaT]

If he did not back IN, he had to back OUT (looking back first).
If he BACKED in, he would have looked behind him while doing so.

No dice.

You're guessing he could see into the rear facing car seat that way.

Are you aware there are mirrors on the market for cars with rear facing child seats - because in fact, parent's CAN'T see their kids while driving?

When you begin building a belief on incorrect assumptions and not facts, you can end up with the wrong conclusion.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I would have to imagine parents and whoever is on the child's emergency contact list can access the daycare. That would be a major obstacle most wood not want to deal with. IMO Besides it has been determined that she did pick him up daily

This sounds logical... And is what I have experienced...

when filling out the paper work for admittance, the names, numbers, etc. Of the "guardians" who will be, and are allowed to be, dropping off the child is stated...

If there are legal issues... (Estrangement, (word?) , etc...) those persons' names are put in "the file", as well, so that the child will NOT be released to those specific people...

all... JMO

 

[JeannaT]

Thanks for the Daily Mail article and pictures. Just a correction, the Daily Mail article says he opened the driver's side door, just like every other article I've read. It says, however, that he put something in the front passenger seat.

*** and it's saying my message is too short? Is this a new thing?***

You typed your message within the quotes of your quoted post so your message wasn't detected as new text.

I've done that. You remove your message from inside the quoted material and make it stand alone under the last QUOTE marker.

 

[SStarr33]

you know --- their a/c required repair if I recall correctly ((for the condo)) would be interesting to know when exactly that occurred and the details of the temperature etc and if there was any concern at that time for safety of wee lad.

I wonder if that is why they were researching heat and death. I bet there is little to no info on the internet about a child dying in a hot apartment.

 

[JeannaT]

I wonder if that is why they were researching heat and death. I bet there is little to no info on the internet about a child dying in a hot apartment.

That makes some sense, except they both said they researched because they had a fear of this happening to them.

Which I believe. I think a lot of people see danger coming at them before it's all the way there.

 

[jmcgladr]

Yeah, that is the one that bothers me. Why use the word "side". It would seem that a police report would not use words unless they are needed. Seems it would say "Drivers door" not "Driver's side door". I do wonder if it was the back door that he entered.

bbm That bothers me.

Maybe. But wouldn't they call that the "rear passenger door" or "rear passenger door on the driver's side?" I am not completely familiar with LE lingo, granted, but they are usually pretty specific.

 

[liltexans]

From last night's JVM

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

We have a fantastic expert Lion`s Den panel ready to debate this. But first, I want to go out to CNN`s Nick Valencia. Nick, you were inside the

church during this extraordinary funeral where the dad calls from behind bars on the phone and they put him on speakerphone somehow and then the mom

also speaks. Tell us what it was like in there and what happened.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Jane, it`s great to be on with you tonight. It was an overall extraordinary experience. It

certainly was out of the ordinary. It wasn`t about the 22-month-old Cooper Harris. This should have been about that little boy, this baby. But it

was as much about him as it was about the suspicion surrounding his death.

Leanna Harris, the mother of Cooper Harris, felt compelled to get up there in front of the crowd, a near-capacity crowd, more than 300 people, and she

felt that she needed to defend herself as to why she was being able to get up there in front of the crowd and not turn into a ball of tears and sod

and dirt, as she says.

She -- the most extraordinary moment throughout all of this, Jane, was that phone call. As the service started, the pastor from Marietta, Georgia,

that was leading the service said, if you see Leanna Harris on the phone, it`s because Justine Ross Harris -- Ross, as he`s known to his friends, was

going to call in. He called in about 15 minutes into the service as his father, the grandfather of that little baby was delivering a eulogy for

Cooper Harris, and you could hear the sob over the phone of Ross Harris from that Georgia jail. It was an incredible moment.

The reaction of those in attendance was also of surprise. The reaction was also emotional by those folks in the crowd. It was unexpected.

The grandparents were certainly the most emotional of everyone in attendance.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1406/30/ijvm.01.html

 

[LisaB]

Wow.

So to bolster his "I forgot" to drop him off, he made plans to have drinks with friends after work, because he forgot he had to pick him up too? So he just plain forgot his son.

So Mom, was away.......how INTERESTING that he chooses this day to "forget" to bring Cooper to daycare. Seems he took advantage of her change of routine, not his.

If this is true, it is very damning in my eyes and part of his premeditation.

If Mom was not going to arrive at 2:30 as per usual, that is one less problem for him in his "plan."

THERE IS NO 2:30 PICKUP TIME.
This was a misunderstanding that occurred in one of the first threads and has been repeated numerous times. The ONLY mention of 2:30 was one of our members stating that "lunchtime" (when Ross checked the car) does not NECESSARILY mean "noon" as SHE (the poster) takes lunch at 2:30.
We have NO IDEA what the mom's hours were, and what time Cooper was normally picked up. If dad coached sports and went out with his friends, he might have left the boy at daycare until LATER than his "quitting time" so he'd be tended to until mom got off work LATER. We really can't speculate.

As I said previously. I would sometimes leave my daughter at daycare an extra hour to run errands. Maybe Mom had "down time" after Dad and Cooper left in the morning, and he got "down time" after work while Cooper was at daycare and Mom was at work. It sometimes makes sense to have the child at daycare even when both parents are "off work".

We don't know where she worked, or even that she completed a degree.

gngr~snap
... She did graduate from college. I think that much has been stated.

"Leanna Harris is a 2002 graduate of Demopolis Academy in Alabama, and attended the University of Alabama where she studied food and nutrition. The couple now lives in Marietta."
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...arris_als.html

From prior thread.

I don't know if she GRADUATED COLLEGE (she DID graduate from Demopolis Academy). It said she attended the school and what she studied, but not that she completed her coursework, graduated, or received a degree.

My sister works from home. When her kids were little, they went to daycare, even though she was home all day, so she could get things done.

Also, I want to know where the information came from that she was out of town that day.

 

[oh_gal]

I wonder if that is why they were researching heat and death. I bet there is little to no info on the internet about a child dying in a hot apartment.

But wouldn't it take much longer for an apartment to reach a certain temp than a car, sitting in the sun? So whatever timetable it gave for a car would not be useful. :waitasec:

 

[popsicle]

The fact that there's no video at all indicates the media was not allowed to video. You KNOW they would have if they could have. I didn't even see pics of people filing in or out of the church.

But, maybe I've missed video. I've heard a little audio.

There were several pics that I saw of people filing in and out of the service.

eta http://www.google.com/search?q=coop...WBqgbt94HoDw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=635

 

[Chewy]

I don't think anyone in my real life would ever accuse me of being "illogical". Exactly the opposite, to a fault.

I look at things and turn then each different way to discover the truth, using logic.

And I'm willing to concede reasonable doubt - even if it doesn't fit the most likely scenario that I believe might have happened in any given case. In court, it's called reasonable doubt. In other places it's called "the benefit of the doubt". Most people don't operate that way, but go by preponderance of the evidence. Which is not how criminal court is set up - it's how civil court is set up.

Very sincerely, and just because you seem to be open minded and not defensive. I would say that someone who believes in premonitions is illogical. You stated earlier that you felt that it was a valid claim to state that he may have had a "premonition" about this happening to his son which is why he looked that up.

In my very humble opinion, that is a completely irrational and illogical statement. Enough IMO if I was helping with jury selection, to ask you to be recused.

However, as I stated before I'm glad you are sharing your views with us and hope that someone in the DAs office has a worker taking notes in these threads to see the kind of points and "reasonable doubts" people are making.

I know we're just tossing ideas back and forth here. I hope this post isn't in any way offensive. If it is, let me know and I'll immediately delete it. :blushing::blushing::truce:

 

[SStarr33]

I am puzzled as to why he went with the "choking" story. However, i am in no way defending the dad.

If he had unintentionally left the baby in the car since the morning, the supposed choking noise should have been a horrific realization that his child had been in a hot car for hours, not just a "my baby is choking" moment.

I think it is possible that the baby did make a noise and there is a graphic explanation why. Sorry to have to be so graphic but....

After death (especially in such a hot environment) decomp quickly begins and gases do build up in the body. The motion of the car could have caused that trapped decomp gas to exit the baby causing both a "choking" sound and filling the car with a horrific smell.

Coroners often report that during transport of bodies, the bodies will make noises as gas is released.

So the the dad could have heard something and not smelled anything right away. Interesting, thank you.

 

[SStarr33]

But wouldn't it take much longer for an apartment to reach a certain temp than a car, sitting in the sun? So whatever timetable it gave for a car would not be useful. :waitasec:

It would be somewhat useful and would be better than nothing.

 

[LietKynes]

I live in the Atlanta area and have been following this case from the start. I have gone back and forth. There are several disturbing aspects of the case but one that keeps sticking in my head is that the mom said she is "absolutely" not mad at the dad. I do not understand that at all. I don't have kids but if my husband left our dog in the car I would be mad. If it was a human child? OMG.

She talks like it is a piece of cheesecake he left in the car (and yes, if my husband left a piece of cheesecake in the car that I had been looking forward to eating, that would make me mad too).

I just cannot understand her not being mad. Even if it was a mistake.

As of now, Leann has not been ruled out completely. She may know more than she is letting on, imo.
Or possibly under total control of her husband ?
I don't consider myself 'rebellious' but my husband certainly does not control me !
:moo:

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

Dizzied by all of the stuff I have seen on this case but did anyone else I see an Atlanta TV station reporting that there would be a court appearance Thursday where the prosecutor would lay out some of their evidence and the reason Ross Harris has been charged? I thought it specifically mentioned Chick Fil A surveillance video. Supposedly he went inside with Cooper versus the drive thru ? It takes a tremendous flight of the senses to not believe this was anything other than a most horrible evil terrible murder. This 22 month old's internal organs, brain and body cooked in that car. His last moments on earth had to be the most agonizing imaginable. What seals the deal for me , besides the internet searches, is the fact that Harris drove approximately 1.4 miles at 4:30 p.m. with his dead son in the car and started his act. The police that arrived shortly thereafter said the odor (dead hyperthermic body plus probably feces and urine) was absolutely overwhelming to them. This guy is in IT but doesn't know how to delete internet searches. I believe when the prosecutors show more of their cards this case will absolutely shock us to the core more than it already has. Remember what Cobb County Police Sgt. Dana Pierce told CNN. "I've been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather."

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

But bear in mind , I also thought O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, and Stephen McDaniel did it

 

[Elley Mae]

Thanks for the Daily Mail article and pictures. Just a correction, the Daily Mail article says he opened the driver's side door, just like every other article I've read. It says, however, that he put something in the front passenger seat.

*** and it's saying my message is too short? Is this a new thing?***

bbm, no it did that to me the other day, I just gave up and left. Before I did something crazy like throw the keyboard. :fence:

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

No it doesn't. What I'm saying is that there are many people out there who don't look at things logically. They are swept along by irrational ideas and emotional bias and personal sympathies etc. None of it it reasonable IMO.

But these types use it to define "REASONABLE DOUBT" Like talking about someone having a premonition. There is no such thing as a premonition. But many people will feel that they've had one and will be swayed by superstition. For example I bet a lot of people are afraid to judge this man too harshly for fear if they do their "karma" will bite them on the butt and something bad will happen to one of their own kids.

What I'm saying is that the DA should not press ideas in the court room unless it is in rebuttal to the Defense's arguments. Eventually you will see the defense pleading a very emotional highly sensationalized case with little evidence.

If we look at Casey Anthony we see that her Defense Team suggested that her father sexually molested her. They offered no proof whatsoever. Then they spun it to make it look like her father had something to do with the child's death. This is what got Casey Anthony off.

In this case, what he smelled, how he acted, how his wife acted at the funeral, what he was "thinking" etc his religious beliefs, etc etc etc. All create irrational illogical reasonable doubt to people for whom "reason" is a very foreign concept.

It's like the same kind of people who think that because someone is a church going man who was nice to people, he couldn't commit murder, even though that's been turned over and over throughout the years.

We need to be careful to not tap into emotional illogical bias.

That's why I think the case should be focused at it's core on the facts and timeline and phone records etc. Not "what we think"

Emotional, illogical bias is a two-way street that can also end in a witch hunt when people take a handful of "facts," determine guilt, and then backtrack "nitpickingly" to make totally unrelated actions "prove" guilt.