GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #6

[LisaB]

Statement from a long-time friend of the dad's:



http://www.al.com/news/tuscaloosa/index.ssf/2014/06/i_have_trouble_thinking_about.html

I had to delete the rest of my post. :blushing:

Carol Brown said, “I’m here for him, even if he’s done a horrible thing.” Brown is a longtime family friend, was in attendance at the funeral on Saturday. She said, “I mean he could have gone to the car and not seen the little boy, if the boy was sleeping, or [you] know…it could happen. He could have been distracted. So…but I do have questions about it.”

http://wiat.com/2014/06/30/questions-surround-both-parents-in-death-of-cooper-harris/

 

[JeannaT]

Very sincerely, and just because you seem to be open minded and not defensive. I would say that someone who believes in premonitions is illogical. You stated earlier that you felt that it was a valid claim to state that he may have had a "premonition" about this happening to his son which is why he looked that up.

In my very humble opinion, that is a completely irrational and illogical statement. Enough IMO if I was helping with jury selection, to ask you to be recused.

However, as I stated before I'm glad you are sharing your views with us and hope that someone in the DAs office has a worker taking notes in these threads to see the kind of points and "reasonable doubts" people are making.

I know we're just tossing ideas back and forth here. I hope this post isn't in any way offensive. If it is, let me know and I'll immediately delete it. :blushing::blushing::truce:

I don't think "premonitions" are illogical. They are as yet unexplained by natural causes - but there are a lot of things we see and believe that are as yet unexplained by natural causes. How cats can somehow track owners who move across the country, dogs can somehow sense when an owner is about to have a seizure, etc. We don't get it, but we see it and then we believe it.

In my life, I've seen clear premonitions happen to me and to others around me, and I think we all know Marin Luther King's speech where he knew he was about to die. How did he know that so surely that he would put it in a hugely attended speech? He knew.

So to me, seeing things and living life empirically is very logical. If I've seen premonitions over and over even if I can't explain it, I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[liltexans]

VALENCIA: Jane, for as many pages as were released in those search warrants, there was very little detail given. We don`t know the context of those statements either: when those statements were made, how they came about. And the cops must have something else in order to level that murder charge.

I want to get back to the atmosphere in that funeral. It was evident to everyone in that crowd, especially the reporters, that Leanna Harris and those that were up at that podium, were speaking beyond those in attendance. They were aware of the controversy surrounding their child`s death. That`s what made it, as the reporters were talking amongst ourselves, that`s what made the scene all the more bizarre.

It was a chilling experience to see that tiny little red casket, red being the favorite color of Cooper Harris, that tiny little red casket placed in front of hundreds. That is something that was a very emotional experience for everyone in the crowd, Jane.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1406/30/ijvm.01.html

 

[SStarr33]

If he did not back IN, he had to back OUT (looking back first).
If he BACKED in, he would have looked behind him while doing so.

No dice.

Did his truck have a back up camera?

 

[Karmady]

I don't think anyone in my real life would ever accuse me of being "illogical". Exactly the opposite, to a fault.
I look at things and turn then each different way to discover the truth, using logic.

And I'm willing to concede reasonable doubt - even if it doesn't fit the most likely scenario that I believe might have happened in any given case. In court, it's called reasonable doubt. In other places it's called "the benefit of the doubt". Most people don't operate that way, but go by preponderance of the evidence. Which is not how criminal court is set up - it's how civil court is set up.

haha...was gonna say the same. I'm one of the most analytical/not driven by emotion peeps I know. EVERYONE I know irl would agree. To a fault here, as well.

 

[Chewy]

Emotional, illogical bias is a two-way street that can also end in a witch hunt when people take a handful of "facts," determine guilt, and then backtrack "nitpickingly" to make totally unrelated actions "prove" guilt.

Absolutely, 100 percent. Which is why I also criticized statements of people talking about how "their kids' would act in the car and scathing comments about the mother.

Just the facts please. Just the irrefutable evidence. No emotional bias on EITHER SIDE.

When I have emotional bias I concede that I have it and take note of how it informs my interpretation of the facts. That's why I will generally take time throughout these discussions to play "devils advocate." I've already posted several points.

But when you step back and look at the data, I think that tells the story. It's funny, this morning I was thinking about how much technology can change the way we examine evidence. We can debate about what the father smelled in the car, but we can easily recreate what he saw in the car when he got in the car.

I want to see a "dummy" in the car in the car seat. That's why I asked earlier if the tinted windows up close would look like "sunglasses" and prevent him from seeing inside the back seat of the car. The back windows are narrow and dark. It's possible that if they are tinted dark enough and he only stood by the front door he wouldn't have seen his son.

But we can recreate this with evidence and we can use surveillance videos to look closely at the information.

 

[LisaB]

You are right - I didn't catch that. He pulled in BEHIND a Cobb County strip mall. Now why would he do that - there are few people behind strip malls. I guess he was heard screaming according to the video. But it clearly states where he pulled his car into at the 1:30 mark on the attached MSM video.

That just raised my hinky meter a little bit higher, as I always thought he pulled in FRONT of the pizza joint.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...r-charge-dropped/story-fnet085v-1226966559570

Thanks, and MOO

Mel

One of the witnesses made it sound as if he was working on construction/renovation of the store Harris pulled up behind. He could have seen people milling about, open doors, etc., and decided to stop there. Under circumstances in which the store was NOT under construction and the rear doors were closed and locked, it makes no sense. Also, if a store was receiving a shipment, he may have seen people out back and stopped at the first people he saw.

 

[liltexans]

Nick, before we lose you, CNN correspondent who was inside the funeral, I think a lot of people are perplexed by the standing ovations. I mean, did anybody say, you know, something -- something`s fishy here?

VALENCIA: There were two standing ovations, Jane. One was prompted by a family friend. He said, in a theater when actors do something well, they give a standing ovation. Let`s give Cooper Harris, that little 22-month- old baby, let`s give him a standing ovation. The hundreds in attendance, they did that.

The second standing ovation was unprompted. It`s when Leanna Harris was up in front of the crowd and said, "He`s a wonderful father. He`s the leader of our family." And unprompted the crowd stood up and started clapping for him.

Now, I want to make this point also, Jane. We spent a lot of hours canvassing the cities, Tuscaloosa, Northport, Fosters, Alabama, where the family and friends are from, and no one that we came across had anything but great things to say about Ross Harris. They talked about his wonderful character. They talked about him being a church, God-centered man, a young man who attended church retreat, a very likable and charming individual.

We were hard-pressed to find anyone.

Having said that, Carol Brown, the woman I spoke to on the record, on camera, said that she had the same questions as everyone else. Why would Justin Ross Harris go to his car in the middle of the day? How could he have not seen his baby in the back of that car? She said, even with those questions, that no one should rush to judgment. That we don`t know everything, and of course, as you mentioned, Jane, police have to have something more. Otherwise, they wouldn`t have leveled that murder charge. We`re going to wait to see what happens Thursday when he appears in court.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1406/30/ijvm.01.html

 

[Chewy]

I don't think "premonitions" are illogical. They are as yet unexplained by natural causes - but there are a lot of things we see and believe that are as yet unexplained by natural causes. How cats can somehow track owners who move across the country, dogs can somehow sense when an owner is about to have a seizure, etc. We don't get it, but we see it and then we believe it.

In my life, I've seen clear premonitions happen to me and to others around me, and I think we all know Marin Luther King's speech where he knew he was about to die. How did he know that so surely that he would put it in a hugely attended speech? He knew.

So to me, seeing things and living life empirically is very logical. If I've seen premonitions over and over even if I can't explain it, I'm inclined to believe it.

A. We're not talking about cats and dogs. Dogs are known to detect health issues not because they are precognitive but because of their ability to smell and sense things on a different level than humans. (That's why we also use them to track dead bodies and people, remember?)

B. Martin Luther King Jr received death threats on a regular basis and was preinformed about a death threat and encouraged not to give the speech, but he did anyway. He didn't get shot while he was giving the speech. So there goes your theory.

I personally find this kind of thinking irrational and illogical wishful thinking. (But that's my bias):blushing:

 

[Spice]

I suppose you are speaking from experience at your own child's funeral. If so I am sorry for your loss. But if not, then this is what I find unfair. We don't know how we'd really act. Especially in a situation like this. We don't know what we'd do or say. I know what I'd like to do. I know how I'd like to act but having never been in this experience I find it unnecessary to even voice an opinion on the matter.

In hind sight if we find out she had some involvement, that's different. But for now I think it's inappropriate. IMHO.

I just want to touch on some things regarding LH Chew.

I think stating that Mom was "ridiculed" is too strong. I have said many times that this case has weird similarities and tones to the Casey Anthony case for me, and I have said that from the beginning , way before the funeral. Way before LH breathed a word.

The reeking car, dad driving around in the reeking car with his dead son in the back, the ridiculous story (in my opinion) that he forgot his son 3 minutes after interacting with him, the damning internet searches, and the bad acting. Again, I don't think they are concretely the same, it's just that some of the events give me Casey Anthony Flashbacks.

As far as the Cindy Anthony comparison: After the funeral, when I read the strange comments about RH and just all of this pomp and circumstance about how great a father he was, standing ovations, while he is sitting in jail accused of murdering his baby, I again had a flashback to the BIZARRE antics at Caylee's Memorial. The whole CMA...CMA...debacle. In my opinion, there was a lack of tact at Cooper's funeral, and also a lack of tact in his obituary. I mean, he died horrifically in a truck in a parking lot, so let's make sure we mention specifically how much he loved trucks when he saw them in parking lots. It really was a WTH? moment for me.

And then, when it ever came out that she is claiming to have made the same damning internet searches as her accused husband has made, I stated that I did not believe her, and that I thought that she was "pulling a Cindy Anthony", in other words in defensive and protective mode of her husband. And I still feel that way. Things are just so off and weird with this case. We shall see.

Those were just my observations, and I do feel empathy for Leann, her entire world has just exploded in her face in the worst of ways. But that does not mean that I am not going to make observations from what has been reported in MSM.

At this point, I believe that she is defending him, because it is all too much to bear, and the alternative would be just too much for her to mentally handle. Time will tell as this all pans out.

I do not think she is involved. I believe from what we know right now, RH acted on his own.

 

[lightlady]

Reasonable doubt is very subject to what we see and hear, and I agree we have not seen everything and people's opinions may change as more is known. I remember in the case of the death of Victoria Stafford there were those that felt Michael Rafferty was innocent up until the final verdict, AFTER which it was revealed they found child *advertiser censored* on his computer that could not be admitted. I was so thankful the jury was able to work with the evidence was there, that was circumstantial but told a story. We can see what kind of explanations that come out as things develop here, but right now the story the pieces we know through LE and MSM is certainly worrisome.

 

[alwayslooking]

Do we know anything of lividity on the babies body? The reason I ask is that no one found the baby in the car before his father hours later! I am way behind, please show me some patience!

 

[JeannaT]

A. We're not talking about cats and dogs. Dogs are known to detect health issues not because they are precognitive but because of their ability to smell and sense things on a different level than humans. (That's why we also use them to track dead bodies and people, remember?)

B. Martin Luther King Jr received death threats on a regular basis and was preinformed about a death threat and encouraged not to give the speech, but he did anyway. He didn't get shot while he was giving the speech. So there goes your theory.

I personally find this kind of thinking irrational and illogical wishful thinking. (But that's my bias):blushing:

It's probably your experience in life, Chewy. You haven't seen premonition before.

I'm not going to tell personal stories, but I've seen people who had clear definable premonitions.

We don't know that dogs "smell" seizures. We don't know how cats find their owners across the country. We don't know how, we observe that it does happen, so good enough. It's empirical, it happens and we don't have to be able to explain it to believe it.

Good enough for me and premonitions. I'd have to be illogical, given what I've seen in my life, to deny they exist.

But maybe that's too much of a rabbit trail for this board, and I need to be off doing stuff this morning.

 

[Sonya610]

I don't think "premonitions" are illogical. They are as yet unexplained by natural causes - but there are a lot of things we see and believe that are as yet unexplained by natural causes. How cats can somehow track owners who move across the country, dogs can somehow sense when an owner is about to have a seizure, etc. We don't get it, but we see it and then we believe it.

In my life, I've seen clear premonitions happen to me and to others around me, and I think we all know Marin Luther King's speech where he knew he was about to die. How did he know that so surely that he would put it in a hugely attended speech? He knew.

So to me, seeing things and living life empirically is very logical. If I've seen premonitions over and over even if I can't explain it, I'm inclined to believe it.

If the premonition is of a plane crash or an accident in another area that is COMPLETELY different! The person having the "premonition" does not have direct control over the plane going down, or the car crash that happens 100 miles away.

In the case of Ross he had the supposed premonition and then HIS OWN DIRECT ACTIONS caused it to become reality!

That sounds more like telegraphing than telepathy to me.

 

[liltexans]

From last night's NG

GRACE: What about it? To you, Dr. Ann Contrucci, ER physician joining us out of Atlanta.

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, PHYSICIAN: Nancy, this is -- you know, kids that are left in cars unattended -- first of all, kids are different than adults. We -- children will absorb heat much more rapidly. So this was a little child. He within probably 15 to 30 minutes, you know -- well, within 10 minutes easily, when the temperature of the car had already gone up by probably at least 20 degrees, and it was 90 outside. So do the math on that. We`re at 110.

He was probably beginning to experience a rapid heart rate. I mean, just the symptoms he was experiencing -- rapid heart rate, dizziness, headache, possibly vomiting, possibly seizures before he died. Children cannot handle this level of heat, and it happens very, very quickly, very quickly. It`s -- I don`t even know what else to say about it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1406/30/ng.01.html

 

[LisaB]

Cover up to not let this tarnish their company. They did nothing wrong except employ [modsnip].

It is possible there is a security guard who patrols the lots that did not see anything. As for not seeing the boy in the car... as skeptical as I am, I recall a couple of years back when a WS member was looking for her sister who had vanished. She (as it turned out) had died in her car in a parking lot. When she was finally located, the car was covered in parking tickets. NOBODY NOTICED a smell, or a woman "sleeping" for days in her car. Very sad.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It is possible there is a security guard who patrols the lots that did not see anything. As for not seeing the boy in the car... as skeptical as I am, I recall a couple of years back when a WS member was looking for her sister who had vanished. She (as it turned out) had died in her car in a parking lot. When she was finally located, the car was covered in parking tickets. NOBODY NOTICED a smell, or a woman "sleeping" for days in her car. Very sad.

The car was sealed, no one had opened the door.

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Judicious1]

Good catch! Hmmm. Maybe it was the passenger door on driver's side? That would make heads spin.:moo:

Don't you think they would have been sure to specifically state that? It would have been a lot more damning. I think it was the driver side door as stated. If he opened either back door I'm confident we would already know this. JMO

 

[Chewy]

It's probably your experience in life, Chewy. You haven't seen premonition before.

I'm not going to tell personal stories, but I've seen people who had clear definable premonitions.

We don't know that dogs "smell" seizures. We don't know how cats find their owners across the country. We don't know how, we observe that it does happen, so good enough. It's empirical, it happens and we don't have to be able to explain it to believe it.

Good enough for me and premonitions. I'd have to be illogical, given what I've seen in my life, to deny they exist.

But maybe that's too much of a rabbit trail for this board, and I need to be off doing stuff this morning.

Yeah we don't know how a handful of cats find their owners yet shelters are filled with hundreds of thousands of strays that don't.

Wishful thinking is seeing what you want to see and twisting the data to make it back up what you want to think, instead of looking at the facts to see what it shows.

I've had lots of "miracle moments" in my life. I can certainly understand why people think of them that way. But they are what's called a coincidence. You really want to argue that after hearing about a child being left in a car and getting worried that it might happened to you, it constitutes a "premonition?" How about it just constitutes common sense that when you hear about these stories in the news you look into them if you have little children.

Did all those people have premonitions? How strange that only RH's panned out. He must be special right?

When we don't "know" what happened the logical and honest answer is to say "we don't know" Not to attribute it to MAGIC!!!

 

[Elley Mae]

Do we know anything of lividity on the babies body? The reason I ask is that no one found the baby in the car before his father hours later! I am way behind, please show me some patience!

bbm yes.

Artiyka also believes the baby had been dead for many hours before Harris pulled the child out of the car.

'The baby was a grey/blue color, not its natural color. I know he was in the car seat but when the dad placed him on the ground his legs stayed in the same sitting position, as if he was laying on the ground with his knees up in the air stiff. It wasn't natural.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-animal-die-hot-car-toddler-son-died-way.html